Travel chaos at Euston (27/10)

[colchesterken]

What used to happen in the good old days
where the number of incidents more of less.?
Did the lines stay blocked for so long ? With modern trains you can switch off the motors. we all know the problems of a steam engine not getting a drink, if trains were held up in a long queue at red signals.

 

[Bayum]

What used to happen in the good old days
where the number of incidents more of less.?
Did the lines stay blocked for so long ? With modern trains you can switch off the motors. we all know the problems of a steam engine not getting a drink, if trains were held up in a long queue at red signals.

As a whole, suicide rates have been steadily increasing, particularly since the 2000s. There was some data released a few years ago, possibly last year, which showed an increase in railway suicides from the year 2000 or so, upto maybe ‘15/16. Again, this was an increased trend, so one could infer that there were suicides on the railway before that, but significantly fewer, or perhaps they had stalled at the year 2000 mark.

 

[Mike99]

I don't understand why they can't just remove the body and be done with it, people need to travel, I doubt they need to investigate suicides.

Do you think the body will be in one piece? In real life its not like on the telly. The deceased has to be treated with respect, (and all of the body located and accounted for), staff, crew and passengers onboard and on a platform etc, have to be spoken to and cared for and the unit may need to be cleaned. Hope this helps you understand a bit better

 

[6Gman]

Does anyone know - were Scotland-bound passengers advised to travel via the ECML (with ticket acceptance)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone know - were Scotland-bound passengers advised to travel via the ECML (with ticket acceptance)?

On Wednesday they were, so probably yes.

 

[AntoniC]

I know someone who is a Guard on Merseyrail and she has to perform the task of locating body parts, she said it was grim as parts go everywhere on impact (as others have said).

 

[Adlington]

the task of locating body parts

When does this macabre search end? After X hours, or after N percent of the body is recovered?

 

[AntoniC]

When does this macabre search end? After X hours, or after N percent of the body is recovered?

She didnt go into all of the details, so I cant accurately answer - sorry

 

[Bromley boy]

I know someone who is a Guard on Merseyrail and she has to perform the task of locating body parts, she said it was grim as parts go everywhere on impact (as others have said).

I must say I’m surprised a guard is asked to get involved in that. I thought that task was undertaken by BTP or possibly other emergency services staff.

 

[HowardGWR]

It used to be the job of local length men platelayers, but that was when we had local length men platelayers.

 

[GarethC]

It seems to be a common perception that when there is a railway fatality the police priority is to "preserve the crime scene" but for a road fatality the priority is to get the traffic moving. To what extent this is true and to what extent is the difference simply down to the different characteristics of road to railway I don't know.

I would suggest that every incident is different. The difference with roads being that generally you can divert more easily and you aren't dependent (in most cases) on a finite number of vehicles which could be trapped in the wrong places.

For comparison, last week there was a fatality on the Eastbound A14 south of Ipswich which occurred at 06.45 with the road not opening again until 14.45. Total traffic chaos across the area. Many delays and abandoned journeys. Awful situation for those involved. It's not just on the railway.
(I appreciate this wasn't a suicide but it did involve a prolonged piece of transport infrastructure being closed for most of the day)

 

[tsr]

* Please note the following may not be pleasant reading for some amongst the forum membership. I have done what I can to tone down what I have written. *

Re. the above posts about Merseyrail, it is rather unusual to hear of a guard being tasked to retrieve human remains nowadays. In fact, I have never heard of this being required of someone specifically performing the role of guard over the last few years.

The only thing I can think of is that the guard happened to have prior experience from another role (eg. senior volunteer with an ambulance organisation) and they volunteered to assist. Even so, they wouldn't be able to do a complete job of it with the equipment they'd carry, so other agencies would be needed anyway.

Sometimes the guard may need to go onto the line if that is the only way to protect the line or determine what has happened, likewise the driver also might need to do this, if they are in a position to, or the train cabs may be rendered uninhabitable - of which I shall say no more.

(Various TOCs will actively discourage their staff from going looking and trying to go about determining the extent of an incident where someone is suspected of being hit by a train, though. Several will just train their staff to report the worst, block the lines accordingly, and wait for NR or the emergency services to turn up. If it turns out to be a case of a very near miss then this can be unduly disruptive, but so be it. It can reduce the mental trauma and help focus minds on assisting passengers who may be more upset.)

They may also need to liaise with personnel trackside, or occasionally walk back to an access point / platform after relieving crew have arrived.

However, all that being said, the train crew may well see the full aftermath of the incident despite their best attempts not to need to. In which case they may not be picking up the pieces but they may see the need to.

Sorry if this has made for grim reading.

 

[CAF397]

I spent 9 years as a Network Rail Mobile Operations Manager (MOM), who get sent to every railway fatality to act as liaison between Network Rail and the emergency services, and also to manage site safety. I can shed some insight into how these incidents are usually managed, without going into the specifics.

When an incident like this occurs, the driver will make the initial emergency call to the SignalBox. This will be the first alert to Network Rail of what has happened. In my day there was no GSMR, however the Control centres all have it so they will hear the Call live. Network Rail Control will then contact BTP and then ring the MOM. All these initial details are based on the drivers report (location). Quite often, if incidents happen at locations where the public are, ie stations, or if the BTP office is some distance away, then the Civil Police will also attend and may well get to site first. This can cause some issues, more later.

When the MOM arrives at the scene the initial task is to make the site safe. The MOM is appointed Rail Incident Officer (RIO) and will contact the signaller for an update with any information the signaller has that’s relevant, such as police arrived, Traincrew relief eta amongst other things.
The signaller will have stopped all lines using signals, but now the RIO will officially take a line blockage and become the Controller of Site Safety (COSS) as well.

The next task is to get an update from site to give Network Rail Control real time feedback. This is where they will seek out the Police officer in charge and identify themselves. BTP work with the RIO and so know the protocol and are happy to allow the RIO into the loop. Civil Police aren’t used to railway incidents and so often deny the RIO access through the outer cordon.

The BTP officer in charge will give a brief rundown on where they are. Is the person alive or deceased, of deceased have they been formally declared ‘life extinct’ - strange as it sounds his does make a difference. Paramedics can declare life extinct, but sometimes a doctor is required. Is the incident suspicious or non-suspicious. Is the coroner attending (not always the case), has SOCO attended or do they need to, and when can recovery of the remains take place.

All this information is fed back to Network Rail Control, together with a site assessment from the RIO. Does a clean up crew need to attend, is there any track equipment damaged (TPWS grids for eg), replacement Traincrew on site or eta requested for them. If at a station then the Railway Chaplian may attend.

Once the BTP have finished their investigation the recovery starts, and this is where time can vary. If the person is intact then it is a very quick recovery, if they are not then it is more time consuming as a thorough search has to be made to ensure all parts are accounted for as much as possible.

The train needs to be assessed to make sure it is fit for travel. Both braking system and the appearance of the train. Sometimes a fitter has to attend to make a repair.

If the incident happened in a remote location then access isn’t always convenient so they person has to be carried some distance back to an access point.

The deceased is then collected by the funeral service. This may be whilst the line is blocked or back open.

Once the police have handed back the site to the RIO, before the RIO can hand back the line to the signaller he has to ensure all personnel are clear. Usually that is done through the emergency services confirming to their control they are clear, who confirm to Network Rail Control, who finally tell the RIO. The RIO can surrender the line blockage to the signaller and reopen the lines, subject to any restrictions (not to call at a station or if the train is still there). The MOM can stand down as a RIO but will remain there in case contractors need to attend to clean up, or if pway or S&T need to make repairs.

Every incident is different. The BTP work to a 90 minute target. Sometimes it’s quicker, sometimes it’s longer, but everything has to be done to the letter. Always maximum dignity is given to the deceased.

I attended 5 in my 9 years, it’s always a difficult time for everyone but we all have our jobs and just get on with it. The time to dwell on things is afterwards.

 

[skyhigh]

I spent 9 years as a Network Rail Mobile Operations Manager (MOM), who get sent to every railway fatality to act as liaison between Network Rail and the emergency services, and also to manage site safety. I can shed some insight into how these incidents are usually managed, without going into the specifics.

When an incident like this occurs, the driver will make the initial emergency call to the SignalBox. This will be the first alert to Network Rail of what has happened. In my day there was no GSMR, however the Control centres all have it so they will hear the Call live. Network Rail Control will then contact BTP and then ring the MOM. All these initial details are based on the drivers report (location). Quite often, if incidents happen at locations where the public are, ie stations, or if the BTP office is some distance away, then the Civil Police will also attend and may well get to site first. This can cause some issues, more later.

When the MOM arrives at the scene the initial task is to make the site safe. The MOM is appointed Rail Incident Officer (RIO) and will contact the signaller for an update with any information the signaller has that’s relevant, such as police arrived, Traincrew relief eta amongst other things.
The signaller will have stopped all lines using signals, but now the RIO will officially take a line blockage and become the Controller of Site Safety (COSS) as well.

The next task is to get an update from site to give Network Rail Control real time feedback. This is where they will seek out the Police officer in charge and identify themselves. BTP work with the RIO and so know the protocol and are happy to allow the RIO into the loop. Civil Police aren’t used to railway incidents and so often deny the RIO access through the outer cordon.

The BTP officer in charge will give a brief rundown on where they are. Is the person alive or deceased, of deceased have they been formally declared ‘life extinct’ - strange as it sounds his does make a difference. Paramedics can declare life extinct, but sometimes a doctor is required. Is the incident suspicious or non-suspicious. Is the coroner attending (not always the case), has SOCO attended or do they need to, and when can recovery of the remains take place.

All this information is fed back to Network Rail Control, together with a site assessment from the RIO. Does a clean up crew need to attend, is there any track equipment damaged (TPWS grids for eg), replacement Traincrew on site or eta requested for them. If at a station then the Railway Chaplian may attend.

Once the BTP have finished their investigation the recovery starts, and this is where time can vary. If the person is intact then it is a very quick recovery, if they are not then it is more time consuming as a thorough search has to be made to ensure all parts are accounted for as much as possible.

The train needs to be assessed to make sure it is fit for travel. Both braking system and the appearance of the train. Sometimes a fitter has to attend to make a repair.

If the incident happened in a remote location then access isn’t always convenient so they person has to be carried some distance back to an access point.

The deceased is then collected by the funeral service. This may be whilst the line is blocked or back open.

Once the police have handed back the site to the RIO, before the RIO can hand back the line to the signaller he has to ensure all personnel are clear. Usually that is done through the emergency services confirming to their control they are clear, who confirm to Network Rail Control, who finally tell the RIO. The RIO can surrender the line blockage to the signaller and reopen the lines, subject to any restrictions (not to call at a station or if the train is still there). The MOM can stand down as a RIO but will remain there in case contractors need to attend to clean up, or if pway or S&T need to make repairs.

Every incident is different. The BTP work to a 90 minute target. Sometimes it’s quicker, sometimes it’s longer, but everything has to be done to the letter. Always maximum dignity is given to the deceased.

I attended 5 in my 9 years, it’s always a difficult time for everyone but we all have our jobs and just get on with it. The time to dwell on things is afterwards.

Sorry, I've just seen this, but it's a very good description at what happens at a fatality.

To add some further details, BTP try to start the investigation as soon as possible. There's now a fatality hotline which the driver can call, which goes through the process of taking the initial statement so that they can begin to determine if the fatality is suspicious before officers arrive. It also means that BTP can focus on the welfare of the driver once they arrive, rather than having to try and take a statement there and then.

In all cases I attended, recovery couldn't start until we arrived. This meant some fairly lengthly waits - for example, once for a fatality near Durham officers had to attend from Manchester. BTP work to a 90 minute target, but the interpretation of that is that it begins once they arrive on scene. How long it takes depends on how disrupted the body is among other factors, but as TBSchenker says, everything has to be done with dignity. If it's dark for example, it might take longer to collect the body. In some cases a further daylight search would need to be made.

BTP try and hand back as soon as possible, but only when they're convinced they've found as much of the body as possible. There's a good reason for that - normally I stayed around to watch the first train through to make sure everything was okay, and always there were people with their faces pressed up against the windows to have a look at what was going on. I never understood that.

 

[Foxcote]

What used to happen in the good old days
where the number of incidents more of less.?
Did the lines stay blocked for so long ? With modern trains you can switch off the motors. we all know the problems of a steam engine not getting a drink, if trains were held up in a long queue at red signals.

Graphic description follows.
In the good old days the Rules allowed staff to move a body off the track onto the cess or anywhere clear of the track. The original location of the body was supposed to be marked in some way, by stones, chalk or whatever was to hand. I have done this twice (with assistance) and until then, I had not appreciated the phrase, ‘body deadweight’. In these cases I took the view that a decapitated body was certainly dead and well beyond my first aid knowledge. Heads then had to be found and placed with the body.

We could use a tarp or similar to shield the sight of a body from passing trains, but not to place anything over the body until instructed. No red zones then, just a caution on the lines that were open. Otherwise, the BTC, ambulance,medics and undertakers role was the same as now. I was interested in the clean up team now operating, as when incidents occur in the open, they soon attract the interest of carrion. Nevertheless, every effort was made to pick up everything, but very small pieces of skin or bone could escape detection. The worst I attended for this was a man who laid down his body along the top of the rail and was run over from foot to head.

I am surprised that the original OP only had five deaths in nine years, in one week I attended a death on Mon, Wed and Fri. and in that year, according to our Control, I attended 15. I have lost count of the number of deaths attended. (one turned out to be a murder) In 40 years of being in the front line, but I can say that my worst memories were when Staff whom I knew, or children of a very young age or similar age to my own children were killed. Only towards the end of my career did any boss enquire how I felt or inform me that counselling was available.