Transporting solo prisoners by rail

[StephenHunter]

I see that the pilot episode of what became Porridge has Stanley Fletcher taken to HMP Slade via train with two escorts, from what looks like St Pancras (wow, that looked grim!) and going in a First Class compartment. When did this sort of thing stop happening?

 

[Beebman]

Sometime in the 70s (probably 1977) I was travelling from Plymouth to Reading with my parents when my Dad noticed that in the next bay of 4 seats there were 2 plain clothes officers each with a handcuffed prisoner. There seemed to be a good-natured atmosphere among them with friendly chatter and nothing felt threatening about their presence.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

HMP Dartmoor had a regular reserved compartment on the 0900 Waterloo to Tavistock North through service, escorting prisoners from the London area. They were hustled through the side entrance to a waiting van for Princetown. Formerly the GWR Princetown branch had been used, but this ceased before WW2 hastening its end. After 1964 prisoners were taken by road from Plymouth.

The prison is now threatened with permanent closure due to radon gas - not sure what can be done with it!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Where were the handcuffed "prisoners" in Schlesinger's 1961 BTF railway documentary 'Terminus', filmed in or around Waterloo station, meant to have been going?

(Many sources, including IMDb, say that the "prisoners" weren't actually convicted lags, but were instead actors).

 

[Roger1973]

Where were the handcuffed "prisoners" in Schlesinger's 1961 BTF railway documentary 'Terminus', filmed in or around Waterloo station, meant to have been going?

(Many sources, including IMDb, say that the "prisoners" weren't actually convicted lags, but were instead actors).

Several possibles, including Parkhurst on the Isle of Wight.

Possible that they set it up with actors - the prison service might not have had anyone they wanted to move on the day/s they were filming, and potential for trouble if they had filmed with real convicts?

 

[6Gman]

Was certainly still a thing in the mid-70s.

 

[Mag_seven]

Several possibles, including Parkhurst on the Isle of Wight.

Back in the 80s I struck up a conversation with someone on a London to Glasgow service - they said they were retuning to Scotland after 6 months on the Isle of Wight. It was only later that I twigged.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Where were the handcuffed "prisoners" in Schlesinger's 1961 BTF railway documentary 'Terminus', filmed in or around Waterloo station, meant to have been going?

(Many sources, including IMDb, say that the "prisoners" weren't actually convicted lags, but were instead actors).

According to a book about the BTF unit in that film everything was planned and directed and actors used,even Schlesinger himself appeared in a cameo. The film depicted a West of England express so the “lags were probably off to Dartmoor via Tavistock North.

 

[Trackman]

The thread title reminds of that picture of Timothy Evans at Paddington being escorted off the train by two detectives. He would hang 3 months later.

 

[Springs Branch]

... via train with two escorts, from what looks like St Pancras (wow, that looked grim!) and going in a First Class compartment.

BR's General Appendix to Rules & Regulations, dated 1972, included the following . . .

PRISONERS AND INSANE PERSONS
Prisoners and insane persons, with their escorts, must be placed separate from other passengers.

I suspect that when Second Class accommodation on daytime main line trains became almost exclusively open saloons, but First Class could still be in compartments, it was felt preferable to put prisoners under escort into First Class compartments.

I have a vague memory of some kind of kerfuffle back in the day - maybe an irate Letter to the Editor from 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' - complaining that society's ne'er-do-wells were now being provided with luxurious First Class Inter-City rail travel at the taxpayers' expense.

Presumably this type of 'non-discretionary' travel was always under some kind of specialised Travel Warrant arrangement - rather than Mr. MacKay buying everyone's tickets at the booking office window - and maybe a reserved compartment & upgrade to 1st was included gratis by British Rail - looking after “regular customers”?

Another thing I recall reading at one point was that the single Second/Standard Class compartment in the 4-CIG Driving Trailer Composites was there partly to allow discrete/secure transportation of London's convicts to Portsmouth, at the start of their Staycation at Her Majesty's expense in the Isle of Wight's Parkhurst Hotel. I'm unconvinced how much of a factor this really was.

I've also heard that the single Standard Class compartment was provided in CIGs (and CEPs too, I think) to facilitate transport of a body on a stretcher - which accessed the compartment via a hinged, fully-opening window frame. And also that compartments were desirable on the Waterloo - Portsmouth route so MoD / Navy bods could discuss confidential defence matters during the journey. Though presumably anyone discussing secrets juicy enough to be worth overhearing would be officers travelling First Class anyway. The real explanation for provision of that one Standard compartment was probably 'none of the above' and nothing to do with prisoners.

 

[Rescars]

Another thing I recall reading at one point was that the single Second/Standard Class compartment in the 4-CIG Driving Trailer Composites was there partly to allow discrete/secure transportation of London's convicts to Portsmouth, at the start of their Staycation at Her Majesty's expense in the Isle of Wight's Parkhurst Hotel. I'm unconvinced how much of a factor this really was.
.

AIUI, a similar discrete facility is (or was) provided on Eurostar.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Back in the 80s I struck up a conversation with someone on a London to Glasgow service - they said they were retuning to Scotland after 6 months on the Isle of Wight. It was only later that I twigged.

Mind you, the ferry reliability being what it is these days, the casual tourist might need six months to get back off....

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The thread title reminds of that picture of Timothy Evans at Paddington being escorted off the train by two detectives. He would hang 3 months later.

Evans was under arrest for return to London on a minor theft charge , he was only charged with the Rillington Place murders on arrival.

He started his journey at Merthyr where he handed himself in . then by car to Cardiff General where he boarded the London train , and was "upgraded" to a first class compartment on the authority of the Station Master - the famous picture was taken by tipped off press photographers.

 

[alistairlees]

It was still happening in April 1983, I don’t know about later.

 

[nw1]

Evans was under arrest for return to London on a minor theft charge , he was only charged with the Rillington Place murders on arrival.

He started his journey at Merthyr where he handed himself in . then by car to Cardiff General where he boarded the London train , and was "upgraded" to a first class compartment on the authority of the Station Master - the famous picture was taken by tipped off press photographers.

Wrongfully accused, by the looks of it, and wrongfully killed by the State aged just 25.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Wrongfully accused, by the looks of it, and wrongfully killed by the State aged just 25.

A source of very great controversy and much written on it (both for and against culpability) - starting with Ludovic Kennedy.

(in passing I once bumped into Mr Kennedy at a very disturbed Paddington one freezing cold winter night - I only nodded at him , but to this day I wish I had engaged properly and done something for him - he was an old man then .....)

 

[6Gman]

BR's General Appendix to Rules & Regulations, dated 1972, included the following . . .

I suspect that when Second Class accommodation on daytime main line trains became almost exclusively open saloons, but First Class could still be in compartments, it was felt preferable to put prisoners under escort into First Class compartments.

I have a vague memory of some kind of kerfuffle back in the day - maybe an irate Letter to the Editor from 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' - complaining that society's ne'er-do-wells were now being provided with luxurious First Class Inter-City rail travel at the taxpayers' expense.

Presumably this type of 'non-discretionary' travel was always under some kind of specialised Travel Warrant arrangement - rather than Mr. MacKay buying everyone's tickets at the booking office window - and maybe a reserved compartment & upgrade to 1st was included gratis by British Rail - looking after “regular customers”?

Another thing I recall reading at one point was that the single Second/Standard Class compartment in the 4-CIG Driving Trailer Composites was there partly to allow discrete/secure transportation of London's convicts to Portsmouth, at the start of their Staycation at Her Majesty's expense in the Isle of Wight's Parkhurst Hotel. I'm unconvinced how much of a factor this really was.

I've also heard that the single Standard Class compartment was provided in CIGs (and CEPs too, I think) to facilitate transport of a body on a stretcher - which accessed the compartment via a hinged, fully-opening window frame. And also that compartments were desirable on the Waterloo - Portsmouth route so MoD / Navy bods could discuss confidential defence matters during the journey. Though presumably anyone discussing secrets juicy enough to be worth overhearing would be officers travelling First Class anyway. The real explanation for provision of that one Standard compartment was probably 'none of the above' and nothing to do with prisoners.

On at least one occasion at Wigan in the mid-70s the General Appendix was disregarded as I shared a compartment with three gentlemen, two of whom were very attached to each other!

And a large number of Mk I vehicles had a compartment/ window adaptation for stretcher cases (on CKs - corridor composites). In my years of travelling I only ever once saw the facility in use, at Norwich c.1964/65. The hinged window frames created significant problems of rot caused by water ingress I believe.

 

[DarloRich]

In the mid 90's I once travelled on what would now be a cross country service and struck up a conversation with a fellow passenger. He was travelling alone with his caged song bird, a clear bin bag of clothes and a couple of books.

After a while he disclosed that he as prisoner coming to the end of a long stretch for armed robbery and was moving prisons to an open prison to facilitate his release. He was unaccompanied and obviously trusted not to abscond or misbehave.

He was quick to say he wasn't violent, had been inside a long time ( 10 years plus) and should never have gone away for armed robbery as it was only a replica! He was happy to talk about his time inside to a curious teenager and didn't seem to ham it up, at least as far as I could tell. He had a warrant he showed the guard who didn't seem worried by his extra passenger.

These days I suspect all prisoners are moved by "sweat box" van

 

[Sun Chariot]

In the mid 90's I once travelled on what would now be a cross country service and struck up a conversation with a fellow passenger. He was travelling alone with his caged song bird, a clear bin bag of clothes and a couple of books.

After a while he disclosed that he as prisoner coming to the end of a long stretch for armed robbery and was moving prisons to an open prison to facilitate his release. He was unaccompanied and obviously trusted not to abscond or misbehave.

He was quick to say he wasn't violent, had been inside a long time ( 10 years plus) and should never have gone away for armed robbery as it was only a replica! He was happy to talk about his time inside to a curious teenager and didn't seem to ham it up, at least as far as I could tell. He had a warrant he showed the guard who didn't seem worried by his extra passenger.

These days I suspect all prisoners are moved by "sweat box" van

He was probably more gutted that, during his 10+ years, the Whistlers, Peaks, Rats, Hoovers, AC Roarers, etc had gone...

 

[Carbean]

In the military in the 1960s, if someone was Absent Without Leave (AWOL) or a Deserter and were caught or gave themselves up, it was up to the unit to collect them. At Brize Norton a RAF Policeman and an escort went up to Kinloss in North Scotland, by train and return, to collect an absentee airman. I volunteered to go but as I was only 17 was classed as too young. I do not know if they got up to Inverness and had a break or arrived, collected the prisoner and returned. Probably they had a break. It seemed quite routine. Looking back I am surprised they did not send up an aircraft to collect him, the amount of flights classed as "crew training", (going to collect fish from Scotland and wine from Germany for the Officers' Mess function), could easily have been arranged and been more secure.