Transport investigation

[Trainpal_train]

Train investigations

 

[AlterEgo]

Before we start, what was the date of the offence, what is the date on the letter from them, and importantly, what is the deadline to respond?

Prosecutions of this nature are statute barred after 6 months.

 

[Trainpal_train]

The offence was 14th may and the letter is 21st September I have 21 days to reply.
It's so long ago I don't remember all the details.

 

[AlterEgo]

Do you recall which train it was that you were on? Where did you change trains to get to Wembley? Not many trains from Solihull stop at Wembley Stadium.

 

[Trainpal_train]

I don't recall if it was a direct train or had to change somewhere in high Wycombe or banbury I'm not really sure.

 

[Haywain]

I don't recall if it was a direct train or had to change somewhere in high Wycombe or banbury I'm not really sure.

Whether or not it was a direct train isn't really important. You didn't have a valid ticket for the journey you made and that is all that really matters.

 

[WesternLancer]

I just received a letter from the transport investigation almost 5 months after the incident. I was travelling from Solihull to Wembley London but my internet connection was down on my phone as I was changing plans with my provider so they shut everything down before setting up the new one!
I usually purchase my ticket online as my railcard is on my phone. Therefore I wasn’t able to purchase it. But was like its okay i can do it on the train with wifi so got on the train but the wifi was not connecting somehow i kept trying. The plan was then changed and I couldn’t make it to wembley so i met my friend in london. When i got my connection which i have the proof from my provider text i purchased a ticket from wembley to london and a return ticket! I was so nervous I made a mistake and I didn't even need a return ticket but it was purchase however it was not a ticket and only a collection one so obviously when I reach London I couldn't pass the gate and I was honest and said I don't have the ticket so they fillet this big letter for me to complete! I've given the notice to explain myself within 21 days as to why I didn't have the ticket but I don't think my justification of being nervous is enough? Please let me know what I should do. Also to mention I had a horrible health news that weekend which I have proof of I can attach and proof of my internet not working.

Welcome to the forum - hope you can get the advice you need.

The general advice on these threads is to apologise and offer to pay what you owe in the hope of an 'out of court settlement' offer, which you should ask them politely to consider letting you pay.

Don't bother much with the excuses / sob story - as often said here 'they have heard it all before' (your post, and I apologise for being blunt, seems to have rather a lot of excuses, most if not all of them they will be uninterested in I'm afraid to say).

Unfortunately evidence of posts on here involving Chiltern Trains / TIL is that they have a robust approach to enforcement and prosecution so you may have to make considerable efforts to persuade them not to prosecute, eg write 2 or 3 times. Sadly they will not be very interested in non working mobile phones / terminated phone contracts / health problems / changes of plan en route etc.

But was like its okay i can do it on the train with wifi

Sadly this is the problem, it is a criminal offence to board a train in England without already having a valid ticket where there are facilities to buy one before you board - so if there was an open ticket office at Solihull, or a Ticket Machine, you committed the offence when you got on the train as far as I can see. And then it sounds like you already admitted guilt when they stopped and questioned you by agreeing you did not have the correct ticket.

I think your only option is really to apologise and say you did not understand that you would be unable to buy a ticket on board the train which you tried to do on your phone.

 

[Trainpal_train]

Thank you for your lengthy reply Im happy to pay the ticket fine or anything and settle this down just worried they would escalate it to the court !

 

[skyhigh]

proof of my internet not working.

To be blunt, that is likely irrelevant. Solihull has a ticket office and ticket machines. If these were available, you must use them before boarding otherwise you have committed an offence. Having no internet isn't a valid excuse as there were methods of payment available at your origin station.

purchased a ticket from wembley to london and a return ticket!

Even if accidental, to a train company this looks very much like short faring, i.e. deliberately buying the cheapest ticket from the previous stop to get through the barriers.

I've given the notice to explain myself within 21 days as to why I didn't have the ticket but I don't think my justification of being nervous is enough? Please let me know what I should do.

Reply to the letter being honest (but not telling them anything they don't already know!), apologise for your error, make it clear it won't happen again and ask to settle the matter by paying your fare and the costs they have incurred. If it is Transport Investigations Limited who have written to you, it may take a few back and forth letters before they agree to a settlement.

 

[Trainpal_train]

Thank you for your reply. I will draft them an email Im just curious if anyone know do they likely settle this outside the court or are they likely to take me up to court and add it as a criminal record in which case will cause a issue in my future career !

 

[30907]

Thank you for your reply. I will draft them an email Im just curious if anyone know do they likely settle this outside the court or are they likely to take me up to court and add it as a criminal record in which case will cause a issue in my future career !

Re-read Western Lancer's post. As he says, you may have to try more than once with TiL/Chiltern, don't give up at the first refusal.

If you are taken to court and convicted for boarding without a valid ticket - which is an approach they are quite likely to take as you have no defence - it is unlikely to have any significant impact on your career. Not telling a future employer about a conviction, if asked, is much more serious.

 

[Trainpal_train]

Can anyone please proofread the below email I'm sending to transport investigation?
Much appreciated

Dear sir/madame,

I have just received the letter regarding the 14th of my incident at london Marylebone station.
During that day my mobile contract plan was changed and I had no connection to internet to purchase my ticket and also my railcard was electronic which means trainline did not load for me to show this in solihull station at the counter to purchase a ticket. I was hopping to purchase the ticket on board via the wifi and i know this is incorrect on my side and I should have made sure to have the correct ticket before getting on board and I apologize due to this and promise this action should not happen again in future and I have learned my lesson.

I humbly request an opportunity to settle this matter out of court.

Im willing to pay whatever amount you think is fair to do so, including any administrative costs or restitution in an immediate lump sum if possible.

Please give me a chance to prove that these recent, desperate action do not define me. I have worked hard to secure a future for myself and a criminal conviction would seriously impact my future and family as well.

 

[Haywain]

Dear sir/madame,

No ‘e’ at the end of madam, it rather changes the meaning!

 

[6Gman]

Can anyone please proofread the below email I'm sending to transport investigation?

Dear sir/madame,
I have just received the letter regarding the 14th of my incident at london Marylebone station.
During that day my mobile contract plan was changed and I had no connection to internet to purchase my ticket and also my railcard was electronic which means trainline did not load for me to show this in solihull station at the counter to purchase a ticket. I was hopping to purchase the ticket on board via the wifi and i know this is incorrect on my side and I should have made sure to have the correct ticket before getting on board and I apologize due to this and promise this action should not happen again in future and I have learned my lesson.

I humbly request an opportunity to settle this matter out of court.

Im willing to pay whatever amount you think is fair to do so, including any administrative costs or restitution in an immediate lump sum if possible.

Please give me a chance to prove that these recent, desperate action do not define me. I have worked hard to secure a future for myself and a criminal conviction would seriously impact my future and family as well.

Not sure I quite understand this point. Are you saying you would have bought at the ticket office but you couldn't show your (electronic) railcard?

 

[WesternLancer]

Can anyone please proofread the below email I'm sending to transport investigation?
Much appreciated

Im willing to pay whatever amount you think is fair to do so, including any administrative costs or restitution in an immediate lump sum if possible.

I think that is a reasonable reply to send them but I'd rephrase this slightly (if they think £1m is a sum they think is 'fair' are you willing to pay that?) an extreme example of course but maybe change it to eg

"I would be happy to pay the amount of the fare due, and any administrative costs or restitution in an immediate lump sum if possible."

and

letter regarding the 14th of my incident

This is missing something and is thus not clear - should it be 14th of September 2022(or some other date?).

 

[AlterEgo]

Can anyone please proofread the below email I'm sending to transport investigation?
Much appreciated

Dear sir/madame,

I have just received the letter regarding the 14th of my incident at london Marylebone station.
During that day my mobile contract plan was changed and I had no connection to internet to purchase my ticket and also my railcard was electronic which means trainline did not load for me to show this in solihull station at the counter to purchase a ticket. I was hopping to purchase the ticket on board via the wifi and i know this is incorrect on my side and I should have made sure to have the correct ticket before getting on board and I apologize due to this and promise this action should not happen again in future and I have learned my lesson.

I humbly request an opportunity to settle this matter out of court.

Im willing to pay whatever amount you think is fair to do so, including any administrative costs or restitution in an immediate lump sum if possible.

Please give me a chance to prove that these recent, desperate action do not define me. I have worked hard to secure a future for myself and a criminal conviction would seriously impact my future and family as well.

How do you plan to address the fact you evaded the fare from Wembley to Solihull in that letter? That's actually the problem - that you purchased a ticket far, far below what was the correct fare, in order to exit the barriers.

You had no intention of paying the correct fare, did not make any attempt to pay the correct fare, and indeed walked past both an open ticket office, and the ticket machines at the station to board the train in the first place. By this, you committed a separate offence, before committing another and more serious one by buying, on purpose, the wrong fare - in fact the cheapest possible ticket you believed would allow you to finish your journey.

No reasonable person travelling from Solihull to London (105 miles) could possibly think they had discharged their obligation to pay their fare by having only purchased a ticket from Wembley Stadium to London (6 miles). Whoever receives this letter will laugh at it because probably half their case work is made up of passengers who buy a ticket from Wembley Stadium, which is the closest station to Marylebone, in order to try evading the fare. We see it all the time here. Just a few examples from the last 12 months:

Chiltern Railway Ticket Shorting

Hi everyone, Yesterday (10/07/22) I was caught short ticketing on Chiltern Railways. I boarded the train from Bicester Village to London Marylbone, however it wasn’t until I was approaching London that I opened the Trainline app to check my ticket. I realised then that the ticket I had bought...

railforums.co.uk

*RESOLVED* Family member caught with wrong ticket

hey guys, need some advice. a family member was caught with the wrong ticket and they were told they will face prosecution and a fine of 40-500£ for this. It’s been the first ever time this has happened, the reason why it was the wrong ticket as they are on universal credit and could not afford...

railforums.co.uk

Waiting for penalty fare notice??

Hi, this is my first offence so I'm not entirely sure how this works but any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated. Long story but I was travelling back Haddenham & Thame to London after last Christmas 2021. I tried to scan my ticket at the barriers but had only realised that I had bought...

railforums.co.uk

TIL do not mess around.

Do not send this letter; start again, and address the nub of the issue - the fact you evaded the fare.

 

[Hadders]

I agree with @AlterEgo Your story is not very convincing and what you have told us suggests that you were trying to get a free ride.

Feel free to post a copy of your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Trainpal_train]

How do you plan to address the fact you evaded the fare from Wembley to Solihull in that letter? That's actually the problem - that you purchased a ticket far, far below what was the correct fare, in order to exit the barriers.

You had no intention of paying the correct fare, did not make any attempt to pay the correct fare, and indeed walked past both an open ticket office, and the ticket machines at the station to board the train in the first place. By this, you committed a separate offence, before committing another and more serious one by buying, on purpose, the wrong fare - in fact the cheapest possible ticket you believed would allow you to finish your journey.

No reasonable person travelling from Solihull to London (105 miles) could possibly think they had discharged their obligation to pay their fare by having only purchased a ticket from Wembley Stadium to London (6 miles). Whoever receives this letter will laugh at it because probably half their case work is made up of passengers who buy a ticket from Wembley Stadium, which is the closest station to Marylebone, in order to try evading the fare. We see it all the time here. Just a few examples from the last 12 months:

Chiltern Railway Ticket Shorting

Hi everyone, Yesterday (10/07/22) I was caught short ticketing on Chiltern Railways. I boarded the train from Bicester Village to London Marylbone, however it wasn’t until I was approaching London that I opened the Trainline app to check my ticket. I realised then that the ticket I had bought...

railforums.co.uk

*RESOLVED* Family member caught with wrong ticket

hey guys, need some advice. a family member was caught with the wrong ticket and they were told they will face prosecution and a fine of 40-500£ for this. It’s been the first ever time this has happened, the reason why it was the wrong ticket as they are on universal credit and could not afford...

railforums.co.uk

Waiting for penalty fare notice??

Hi, this is my first offence so I'm not entirely sure how this works but any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated. Long story but I was travelling back Haddenham & Thame to London after last Christmas 2021. I tried to scan my ticket at the barriers but had only realised that I had bought...

railforums.co.uk

TIL do not mess around.

Do not send this letter; start again, and address the nub of the issue - the fact you evaded the fare.

Thank you for your reply, I do have proof from my provider to show my connection was off that day and only connected around 10:40 in the morning. This is the genuine result if I don't have railcard the ticket reseller would not allow me to purchase a ticket that requires a railcard (I have experience this in the past when railcard was only hard copy). Yes i can agree that this was a offense but i need a solution to close this outside the court and I genuinely need help.

 

[WesternLancer]

How do you plan to address the fact you evaded the fare from Wembley to Solihull in that letter? That's actually the problem - that you purchased a ticket far, far below what was the correct fare, in order to exit the barriers.

You had no intention of paying the correct fare, did not make any attempt to pay the correct fare, and indeed walked past both an open ticket office, and the ticket machines at the station to board the train in the first place. By this, you committed a separate offence, before committing another and more serious one by buying, on purpose, the wrong fare - in fact the cheapest possible ticket you believed would allow you to finish your journey.

No reasonable person travelling from Solihull to London (105 miles) could possibly think they had discharged their obligation to pay their fare by having only purchased a ticket from Wembley Stadium to London (6 miles). Whoever receives this letter will laugh at it because probably half their case work is made up of passengers who buy a ticket from Wembley Stadium, which is the closest station to Marylebone, in order to try evading the fare. We see it all the time here. Just a few examples from the last 12 months:

Chiltern Railway Ticket Shorting

Hi everyone, Yesterday (10/07/22) I was caught short ticketing on Chiltern Railways. I boarded the train from Bicester Village to London Marylbone, however it wasn’t until I was approaching London that I opened the Trainline app to check my ticket. I realised then that the ticket I had bought...

railforums.co.uk

*RESOLVED* Family member caught with wrong ticket

hey guys, need some advice. a family member was caught with the wrong ticket and they were told they will face prosecution and a fine of 40-500£ for this. It’s been the first ever time this has happened, the reason why it was the wrong ticket as they are on universal credit and could not afford...

railforums.co.uk

Waiting for penalty fare notice??

Hi, this is my first offence so I'm not entirely sure how this works but any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated. Long story but I was travelling back Haddenham & Thame to London after last Christmas 2021. I tried to scan my ticket at the barriers but had only realised that I had bought...

railforums.co.uk

TIL do not mess around.

Do not send this letter; start again, and address the nub of the issue - the fact you evaded the fare.

all very fair points well made - but surely the OP needs to save something up for their 2nd and 3rd letter to TIL pleading for a settlement since they never seem to settle on 1st request however hard you try....

But yes, probably the most helpful post in the thread @AlterEgo , and one for the OP to focus carefully on.

 

[AlterEgo]

all very fair points well made - but surely the OP needs to save something up for their 2nd and 3rd letter to TIL pleading for a settlement since they never seem to settle on 1st request however hard you try....

They shouldn't avoid actually addressing the offence though. The letter as drafted fundamentally doesn't acknowledge what it is, exactly, that has got them into trouble, quite apart from its other faults like the wayward grammar and glibness.

Like many who grace this forum, it seems the OP does not have English as a native language, so we can correct these things once they post another draft. But we can't do the work for them!

 

[SuspectUsual]

Thank you for your reply, I do have proof from my provider to show my connection was off that day and only connected around 10:40 in the morning. This is the genuine result if I don't have railcard the ticket reseller would not allow me to purchase a ticket that requires a railcard (I have experience this in the past when railcard was only hard copy). Yes i can agree that this was a offense but i need a solution to close this outside the court and I genuinely need help.

Why didn’t you use one of the ticket machines at Solihull?

 

[skyhigh]

Yes i can agree that this was a offense but i need a solution to close this outside the court and I genuinely need help.

You're completely ignoring the major issue - which is that you purchased a ticket that only covered a tiny part of your journey. Buying after boarding isn't the major problem here (though it still is an issue).

This forum is to provide advice. We cannot provide 'solutions' to keep people out of court. Ultimately what happens is down to the Company - they have enough to prosecute if they're determined to, there is nothing you can do to 100% rule that out now.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you for your reply, I do have proof from my provider to show my connection was off that day and only connected around 10:40 in the morning. This is the genuine result if I don't have railcard the ticket reseller would not allow me to purchase a ticket that requires a railcard (I have experience this in the past when railcard was only hard copy). Yes i can agree that this was a offense but i need a solution to close this outside the court and I genuinely need help.

You are completely ignoring what I have said:

You had no intention of paying the correct fare, did not make any attempt to pay the correct fare, and indeed walked past both an open ticket office, and the ticket machines at the station to board the train in the first place. By this, you committed a separate offence, before committing another and more serious one by buying, on purpose, the wrong fare - in fact the cheapest possible ticket you believed would allow you to finish your journey.

No reasonable person travelling from Solihull to London (105 miles) could possibly think they had discharged their obligation to pay their fare by having only purchased a ticket from Wembley Stadium to London (6 miles). Whoever receives this letter will laugh at it because probably half their case work is made up of passengers who buy a ticket from Wembley Stadium, which is the closest station to Marylebone, in order to try evading the fare.

We are not here to provide magic words or solutions to make everything disappear. We can't do that. We can only appraise you of the facts as you present them and provide advice.

 

[spag23]

In his original post, the OP says his "plans changed" (as to the destination) en route. Such mid journey changes are unusual, and often greeted with suspicion by RPIs. But what triggered this change of plan? Presumably it's unlikely to have been a text message, voice call or browsing session, as he claims to have had no connectivity between Solihull and Wembley to buy a ticket online.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Do London-bound trains from Solihull routinely call at Wembley Stadium on Saturdays without a change of trains being required en route?

 

[AlterEgo]

Do London-bound trains from Solihull routinely call at Wembley Stadium on Saturdays without a change of trains being required en route?

No. There is a single train at 2127 on Saturdays which calls there, but the OP says they travelled in the morning.

 

[Trainpal_train]

I have a return ticket to-from wembley clearly if my intention was to make an offense and get cheaper ticket j would have got single right? The man that took my details from the gate did take my return ticket from me but i have the proof in my email.

Also my phone had connection i just didnt have internet my train was approaching as well so I didn't stop to purchase from the stand in my head i thought the wifi on the train will be sufficient enough for me to buy the correct ticket.

I do agree i should i have maybe ask someone to hotspot me internet so I purchase or i thought i can buy from train staff.

Is it better for me to contact citizen advice in this instance ? Anyone had experience of such to speak with citizen advice?

 

[AlterEgo]

I have a return ticket to-from wembley clearly if my intention was to make an offense and get cheaper ticket j would have got single right?

No, you bought a ticket from Wembley - like almost every other short-farer on this route does - knowing this did not even remotely discharge you from your obligation to pay the full fare from Solihull. Your intention was to buy it and use it to get through the barriers, and then go on your way. You knew you were in trouble once you didn’t get issued an eticket and instead had to approach staff. The evidence is very clear that you did not pay the correct fare nor did you take any actions whatsoever to do so, and when presented to a court they will almost certainly agree. You can try to convince yourself otherwise but it isn’t in your interest. We have seen it all before and so have Chiltern. Of course one can only wonder what the return portion of your ticket would have been used for (!).

Also my phone had connection i just didnt have internet my train was approaching as well so I didn't stop to purchase

Which is an offence. This has been explained. You walked past ticket issuing facilities to board a train. That’s an offence in itself.

I do agree i should i have maybe ask someone to hotspot me internet so I purchase or i thought i can buy from train staff.

No, you should have purchased a ticket before you boarded. This has been explained; while you were sitting on the train you had *already* committed one offence.

Is it better for me to contact citizen advice in this instance ? Anyone had experience of such to speak with citizen advice?

They can give general advice but they aren’t able to give specific legal help.

 

[Sebastian O]

The plan was then changed and I couldn’t make it to wembley so i met my friend in london.

Press X to doubt

You passed straight through Wembley yet you say you couldn’t make it?

Just be honest and apologise for trying to short fare, don’t try and lie and cover it up, failing the attitude test.

 

[spag23]

They can give general advice but they aren’t able to give specific legal help.

Furthermore, the wealth of advice on this forum far exceeds what Citizens Advice could offer. CAB can only tell people their rights. And there seems to be nothing in this case that breaches the OP's rights. There is no right not to be prosecuted, especially where the offences are already undisputed. Even forum members, whose aim is to be helpful, seem be having ever-growing issues with the OP's account.