Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 Stadler FLIRTs

[craigybagel]

Yes indeed. Another thought - would track access charges reduce with a lower maximum speed ?. What are the maximum line speeds for the valleys etc anyway.

I've no idea on the impact of track access charges, but the top speed on the Valleys is 75mph. There's not much at that speed though.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I wonder if it means they can eliminate a yaw damper somewhere? Like with the 458s, which had the yaw damper removed when they were re-geared to 75?

Ha ha, I can see it now. Use of 458s on the Portmouth direct postponed indefinitely as there are no Yaw Dampers available.

 

[Dai Corner]

Will main line traincrew sign 756s? I'd guess not, so the question of borrowing them won't arise.

 

[Trainbike46]

Will main line traincrew sign 756s? I'd guess not, so the question of borrowing them won't arise.

won't the 231s and 756s be interchangeable for signing purposes?

 

[Dai Corner]

won't the 231s and 756s be interchangeable for signing purposes?

I don't know, but maybe somebody else does?

 

[craigybagel]

won't the 231s and 756s be interchangeable for signing purposes?

I don't know, but maybe somebody else does?

TfW have stated that one of the benefits of using 231s on the Rhymney Valley now is the similarity for training purposes when the 756s arrive. They did say however that crews would need to undergo a short training course all the same, implying they will be separate for traction card purposes.

That said, the 756s are planned to work the Bridgend via VOG services, which are currently worked by Cardiff Mainline and Carmarthen crews between Cardiff and Bridgend. If that continues mainline crews will need to sign 756s regardless.

 

[Jez]

TfW have stated that one of the benefits of using 231s on the Rhymney Valley now is the similarity for training purposes when the 756s arrive. They did say however that crews would need to undergo a short training course all the same, implying they will be separate for traction card purposes.

That said, the 756s are planned to work the Bridgend via VOG services, which are currently worked by Cardiff Mainline and Carmarthen crews between Cardiff and Bridgend. If that continues mainline crews will need to sign 756s regardless.

Do Carmarthen only sign that route so they can send the mainline trains via the VOG when there is engineering works between Cardiff and Bridgend?

 

[craigybagel]

Do Carmarthen only sign that route so they can send the mainline trains via the VOG when there is engineering works between Cardiff and Bridgend?

It's a handy diversion route - not just for planned engineering work but also frequently used for last minute disruption on the mainline. Pretty much everyone at TfW who signs West of Cardiff signs the VOG.

 

[Chris217]

I doubt it but i wonder if any 231s will ever work in pairs lol.
Going to Cardiff on Monday.
Judging by most of the positive remarks here,I might try and sample one of these.
Maybe sit myself near to the thrash cupboard

 

[Jez]

It's a handy diversion route - not just for planned engineering work but also frequently used for last minute disruption on the mainline. Pretty much everyone at TfW who signs West of Cardiff signs the VOG.

it is but what i was wondering is do Carmarthen crews have any booked workings on the VOG or is simply for when disruption happenes. If they dont then i cant see them being trained on the FLIRTS as it would be 197s they would be running when diversions happened.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2023 ==

I doubt it but i wonder if any 231s will ever work in pairs lol.
Going to Cardiff on Monday.
Judging by most of the positive remarks here,I might try and sample one of these.
Maybe sit myself near to the thrash cupboard

I doubt they would ever work in pairs for 2 reasons. There are only 11 of them and they would be needed individually to cover all booked workings and they are already 4 carriages which would mean 8 carriages and likely a lot of platforms wouldn't have enough space.

 

[craigybagel]

it is but what i was wondering is do Carmarthen crews have any booked workings on the VOG or is simply for when disruption happenes. If they dont then i cant see them being trained on the FLIRTS as it would be 197s they would be running when diversions happened.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2023 ==

They have booked work - but only a small amount.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I doubt it but i wonder if any 231s will ever work in pairs lol.
Going to Cardiff on Monday.
Judging by most of the positive remarks here,I might try and sample one of these.
Maybe sit myself near to the thrash cupboard

Thrash cupboard.
My granddaughter noticed the sign saying do not hang around in the corridor (or words to that effect).
I did'nt notice the sign

 

[Wyrleybart]

won't the 231s and 756s be interchangeable for signing purposes?

Would I be right in thinking the 756s have a different arrangement in the power wagon ? Back when the Stadlers came to Anglia I believe the 755/4s had four engines and the 755/3s two or maybe three engines.

IIRC the 231s are diesel only equivalents of the 755/4s with different bodyside furniture. The 756s are more complex in the power department with AC 25kV, batteries and diesel, so the crew would need a different knowledge to sign them

 

[XAM2175]

Would I be right in thinking the 756s have a different arrangement in the power wagon ? Back when the Stadlers came to Anglia I believe the 755/4s had four engines and the 755/3s two or maybe three engines.

755/3s have two engines; /4s have four. 231s also have four. 756s have only one engine; the three other bays hold the batteries.

 

[AdamWW]

Thrash cupboard.
My granddaughter noticed the sign saying do not hang around in the corridor (or words to that effect).
I did'nt notice the sign

I like the English translation on the narrow gauge GTW's in Slovakia (which despite being pure electric have a power pack, I believe to reduce weight by the bodies not having to be strong enough to support equipment on the roof).

I may not remember entirely correctly, but it is something like "No riding in the lane on the run".

 

[AlexNL]

In a GTW, no matter if diesel or electric, all traction equipment is located in a power pack. The passenger coaches are unpowered.

I believe the idea behind this design is that it'd be possible to swap diesel for electrics at any point of the unit's life without having to make any changes to the passenger coaches, but I'm not aware of any GTW operator ever having done that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In a GTW, no matter if diesel or electric, all traction equipment is located in a power pack. The passenger coaches are unpowered.

I believe the idea behind this design is that it'd be possible to swap diesel for electrics at any point of the unit's life without having to make any changes to the passenger coaches, but I'm not aware of any GTW operator ever having done that.

It's a simpler design generally, with the powered bogie being under the power pack (making it more like a cabless short locomotive) and the trailers hung off it rather than articulated with it, which allows a longer low floor section than a FLIRT. It's a predecessor of the FLIRT, but it's really more like a tram or a fancy Pacer.

 

[AdamWW]

It's a simpler design generally, with the powered bogie being under the power pack (making it more like a cabless short locomotive) and the trailers hung off it rather than articulated with it, which allows a longer low floor section than a FLIRT. It's a predecessor of the FLIRT, but it's really more like a tram or a fancy Pacer.

It also allows the saloon to extend to the cab so you can see out of the front/back, rather than having the area behind the cabs full of cabinets.

What I have read (and perhaps it is not correct) is that the power pack enables a low floor train while keeping heavy components floor mounted to give a lightweight design as the bodies don't have to support heavy roof mounted equipment. And that due to increasingly strict crash-worthiness requirements the weight of new designs has crept up until there is no benefit any more.

The standard gauge GTW's I've been on have certainly not felt like a tram or a Pacer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The standard gauge GTW's I've been on have certainly not felt like a tram or a Pacer.

The only standard gauge GTWs I've been on are the Thurbo sets, and they have 3+2 seating and definitely do feel like a fancy tram/Pacer. I've also been on the narrow gauge ones on the Vevey-Blonay service, and they definitely do feel like an oversized tram.

 

[56xx]

4 in passenger service today including first day for 231 003

 

[The_Train]

So with 003 entering service, my records have it as only 009 and 011 are yet to carry passengers?

 

[D7672]

009 and 011 to go

 

[StripeyNick]

009 and 011 to go

And 009 is yet to grace the Rhymney branch with it's presence even on training runs

 

[ValleyLines142]

756001 out on 5Z30 today, departed Cardiff at about 0730 this morning heading towards Newport.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

756001 out on 5Z30 today, departed Cardiff at about 0730 this morning heading towards Newport.

By the looks of RTT it ran back and forth between Newport and Swindon until returning to Cardiff at 14:52 from Newport.

 

[Halish Railway]

Was this Class 756 running on diesel or electric power?

 

[Chris217]

I managed a ride out on a class 231 on my recent Cardiff visit.
In all fairness,I quite like them.
Fast and quiet even next to the thrash cupboard lol.
The one I had was 231007 although there was another in service and 2 on driver training.
I also managed some 769s before their imminent demise. Which seemed very poor by comparison.
Although I'd still prefer the 769s over the horrid 150s.
At times like this I realised how much I miss the 142s and 143s.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Was this Class 756 running on diesel or electric power?

Electric

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Was this Class 756 running on diesel or electric power?

I don't think they can run on diesel alone, has to be assisted by the batteries.

 

[oglord]

756 001 on the mainline at Duffryn this afternoon running as 5Z34 Swindon to Cardiff Canton Sidings.