Transpora Group

[RustySpoons]

Well, the "swish" is a stylised wave and makes sense for a Coastline. Here's Stagecoach's though it is a Best Impressions creation.
View attachment 121376

I know this is Transpora but Mr Hand has got extensive form in appropriating intellectual property - the FoxStar branding in Newport was very reminiscent of the branding for the Wessex Star/Wessex One services of his former employer, Rotala.

This was queried at the time. The response was that it was a stock design package so 'anyone' was free to use it.... apparently!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This was queried at the time. The response was that it was a stock design package so 'anyone' was free to use it.... apparently!

Of course... It did look rather similar though

 

[-Colly405-]

Looks like they have started running a service CO-OP from Cossham Hospital to Avonmouth (daily, 3 return journeys) and one of St Bede's school buses, the BRS03 from Eastville

Request Rejected

 

[Porte Molitor]

Confirmed starting 15th October.

https://twitter.com/RhysHand/status/1574025078634954754

Their Facebook page also says 15 October: Link here


The website is up and running, no details on fares or times, but in addition to the overexcited enthusiasts comments there are a few question that have been answered and some that haven't. They say they have six buses, RM871, RML887, RM1583, RM1941, RML2290 and RML2681. Buses will run every 15 to 20 minutes from 0900-1700. As the photo above shows RM871 and RM1941 have adverts on the front saying £5 for adults.

As always with Mr Hand's ventures there are more questions than answers. The vehicles are being run under Manchester Bus Tours Ltd licence, although the DVSA website only shows them having operating centres at Trafford Park and Blackpool. I'm sure that will be updated, it would be unlike the people involved in this to not ensure all the paperwork is squared up before starting a service Another thing, is if tickets are £5 for all day, how much demand are they expecting for this service? Once the novelty of the service has passed, and assuming all the excited enthusiasts on social media actually buy a ticket, instead of just photographing them in the streets of London, how many tourists are going to want to travel on the service? Thirdly, accessibility. The only real negative comments on their Facebook page are about accessibility. They have posted an update today. I'd be interested to know if any professionals on here think this will hold water. I can see trouble ahead with this, but not working in the industry it doesn't seem a particularly fair way out for a fairly intensive service running around London on a turn up and go basis.

Link 2 here

Having been interested in this sort of thing since Cityfox days, it's always an interesting ride and I'm sure Londoner Buses will provide this forum will as much amusement and entertainment!

 

[Dai Corner]

'Londoner Buses' does seem an odd name for a service aimed at tourists?

 

[Citistar]

In terms of the viability, I daresay that block booking to parties of American and Asian tourists on the classic stereotypical London Bus could be quite lucrative, even at a fiver a head. Whether it will wash it's face on a wet Monday in the pits of winter could be quite a different matter.

Does anyone know whether these vehicles have been adapted to meet Euro 6 or will they be expecting to pay emissions charges every day?

 

[Hophead]

I realise they're not the same thing, but a 24-hour hop-on, hop-off ticket on the 3 London tour operators will cost you at least £32, and potentially upwards of £40 (unless you can get yourself some kind of discount code). £5 seems like quite a bargain in comparison and, if it just serves the main sights, may be all that most visitors need, especially if they can also claim to have got a ride on an "authentic London Routemaster bus".

 

[markymark2000]

Here is the plan for the route, unless they are about to submit a new London Service Permit registration thing, this is what TFL has approved.

PDF can be found here: https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/london-service-permit-consultations#!

Route
Waterloo Station Taxi Road, York Road, Addington Street, Westminster Bridge Road, Bridge Street, Parliament Square, Great George Street, Parliament Street, Whitehall, Trafalgar Square, Cockspur Street, Pall Mall, Waterloo Place, Regent Street Saint James, Piccadilly, Half Moon Street, Curzon Street, Queen Street, Charles Street, Fitzmaurice Place, Curzon Street, Bolton Street, Piccadilly, Coventry Street, Haymarket, Cockspur Street, Trafalgar Square, Whitehall, Parliament Street, Bridge Street, Westminster Bridge Road, Station Approach Road, Waterloo Station Taxi Road

Picking Up and Setting Down Points
Waterloo Station, Taxi Road – Stop A (BP3490)
York Road, Waterloo Station – Tourist Stop W BP3384
Westminster Bridge, St. Thomas’ Hospital County Hall Tourist Stop BP4626
Parliament Square – Stop Q (BP5625)
Parliament Street, Westminster Station – Stop C (1645)
Horse Guards Parade, Whitehall – Tourist Stop BP4568
Cockspur Street, Trafalgar Square – Stop S (BP3507)
Regent Street St James – Stop Z (17683) set down only
Piccadilly, Green Park Station – Tourist Stop (BP4563) set down only
Piccadilly, Green Park Station – Stop J (99)
Piccadilly, Piccadilly Circus – Stop B (37122)
Haymarket Charles II Street – Stop P (157)
Pall Mall East, Trafalgar Square – Stop Z (14629)
Whitehall, Trafalgar Square –Tourist stop (BP3967)
Whitehall, Horse Guards Parade Tourist stop (BP4567)
Parliament Street, Westminster Station – Stop G (1000)
Westminster Bridge Road - Tourist stop, outside County Hall. (BP4625)

Timetable
Daily – every 20 minutes.

 

[RustySpoons]

Of course... It did look rather similar though

The same design was used on some Connexions promo material during the brief and odd tie in where CityFox were running CX's social media... I dare say we may see it again should one of Transpora's operations expand further!

'Londoner Buses' does seem an odd name for a service aimed at tourists?

Could this be as close as they could get to 'London Buses' without stepping on any sort of trademark?

It does seem like it could be quite a lucrative operation, but is there really much demand for tourist/sightseeing services as we head towards winter?

 

[DaveLondon]

Their Facebook page also says 15 October: Link here
View attachment 121389

The website is up and running, no details on fares or times, but in addition to the overexcited enthusiasts comments there are a few question that have been answered and some that haven't. They say they have six buses, RM871, RML887, RM1583, RM1941, RML2290 and RML2681. Buses will run every 15 to 20 minutes from 0900-1700. As the photo above shows RM871 and RM1941 have adverts on the front saying £5 for adults.

As always with Mr Hand's ventures there are more questions than answers. The vehicles are being run under Manchester Bus Tours Ltd licence, although the DVSA website only shows them having operating centres at Trafford Park and Blackpool. I'm sure that will be updated, it would be unlike the people involved in this to not ensure all the paperwork is squared up before starting a service Another thing, is if tickets are £5 for all day, how much demand are they expecting for this service? Once the novelty of the service has passed, and assuming all the excited enthusiasts on social media actually buy a ticket, instead of just photographing them in the streets of London, how many tourists are going to want to travel on the service? Thirdly, accessibility. The only real negative comments on their Facebook page are about accessibility. They have posted an update today. I'd be interested to know if any professionals on here think this will hold water. I can see trouble ahead with this, but not working in the industry it doesn't seem a particularly fair way out for a fairly intensive service running around London on a turn up and go basis.

Link 2 here

Having been interested in this sort of thing since Cityfox days, it's always an interesting ride and I'm sure Londoner Buses will provide this forum will as much amusement and entertainment!

I do not think they will be able to operate these vehicles on an operator licence from a different traffic area. The legal lettering carried was from Manchester, but they will need a local licence.

The have the appropriate TFL approval and exemptions and I do not think they need to have euro 6 in view of their age. Some of these vehicles are the "Dartmasters" - hardly authentic!

 

[markymark2000]

I do not think they will be able to operaste these vehicles on an operator licence from a different traffic area. The legals carried was Manchester but they will need a local licence.

The have the appropriate TFL approval and exemptions and I do not think they need to euro 6 in view of their age. Some of these vehicles are the "dartmasters" - hardly authentic!

They did it in Birmingham and Leeds though using their Manchester licence to run those tours.

 

[GusB]

They did it in Birmingham and Leeds though using their Manchester licence to run those tours.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't companies just have to just register the various locations that they operate from on a given licence?

 

[markymark2000]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't companies just have to just register the various locations that they operate from on a given licence?

They do have to register the locations but also if you have an operating centre in another traffic area, you need another ops licence. The only way they will get around this is if the buses as 'normally kept at an operating centre' and so the buses would have to return back to Manchester for a good few days of the week, likely on some kind of rotation basis. I certainly wouldn't trek these buses up and down the M6 a few times per week so that they are 'normally kept at an operating centre'. There will be another base in London where these buses are 'normally kept' and as such would require a new ops licence covering the South East and London traffic area.


Phillip Higgs does have an ops licence within South East and London but that licence has the name 'Anglia Buses' with an ops centre at Weylands Treatment Works in Walton-On-Thames for 2 buses (licence number PK1070108). That could be used but I think they would have to get the name changed on that licence for it to become valid to run the Londoner buses. This is the difficulty to work out as it's done via London Service Permit, you can't see what ops licence they have used to register the service.

 

[bussnapperwm]

They do have to register the locations but also if you have an operating centre in another traffic area, you need another ops licence. The only way they will get around this is if the buses as 'normally kept at an operating centre' and so the buses would have to return back to Manchester for a good few days of the week, likely on some kind of rotation basis. I certainly wouldn't trek these buses up and down the M6 a few times per week so that they are 'normally kept at an operating centre'. There will be another base in London where these buses are 'normally kept' and as such would require a new ops licence covering the South East and London traffic area.


Phillip Higgs does have an ops licence within South East and London but that licence has the name 'Anglia Buses' with an ops centre at Weylands Treatment Works in Walton-On-Thames for 2 buses (licence number PK1070108). That could be used but I think they would have to get the name changed on that licence for it to become valid to run the Londoner buses. This is the difficulty to work out as it's done via London Service Permit, you can't see what ops licence they have used to register the service.

The application was by the Sightseeing Manchester entity.

Unless the plan is for Sightseeing Manchester to "hire" the appropriate buses for the day/week from the other op (with the appropriate "on hire to" legal notices)?

Or isn't that legal? (I know there was a situation with The Skiers Lodge where they put vehicles in another TA and then claimed that the other TSL legal entity "hired them" to do the Wrexham services)

 

[E-Rail]

An O licence needs to be held in the traffic area that a service is registered in. A North West O licence cannot register a service in the SE Met traffic area.

 

[Man of Kent]

An O licence needs to be held in the traffic area that a service is registered in. A North West O licence cannot register a service in the SE Met traffic area.

If I recall correctly, HCT's original operation of Bristol park and ride services was not done on a Western Traffic Area O licence. And although National Express no longer has registered services, they were all previously on a West Midlands O licence throughout the country.

 

[RustySpoons]

An O licence needs to be held in the traffic area that a service is registered in. A North West O licence cannot register a service in the SE Met traffic area.

Didn't the previous FoxStar operation use a license from an operator the parent company took over in North Wales, Snowdonia Travel?

 

[bussnapperwm]

Didn't the previous FoxStar operation use a license from an operator the parent company took over in North Wales, Snowdonia Travel?

Yeah, but isn't Newport in the Welsh TA?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2022 ==

An O licence needs to be held in the traffic area that a service is registered in. A North West O licence cannot register a service in the SE Met traffic area.

They've used a NW licence to run the Brum tour though, and I believe the Chester one too?

 

[markymark2000]

An O licence needs to be held in the traffic area that a service is registered in. A North West O licence cannot register a service in the SE Met traffic area.

I don't think that fully applies. As long as the bus returns 'home' regularly. Birmingham only ran a few days per week so should have kept returning to Manchester regularly.

 

[RustySpoons]

Yeah, but isn't Newport in the Welsh TA?

Ah, of course

 

[Dai Corner]

Yeah, but isn't Newport in the Welsh TA?

Certainly is. I'm not sure where the Foxstar depot was though. The proprietor was Bristol-based at the time I believe.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Certainly is. I'm not sure where the Foxstar depot was though. The proprietor was Bristol-based at the time I believe.

Had to hunt through the old thread as I was sure it was in there - it was courtesy of @nesw

SNOWDONIA TRAVEL LIMITED
Director(s): Rhys Hand
CITYFOX HOUSE, UNIT 3, CHAPEL STREET, BRISTOL, BS2 0UH
New operating centre: R J MASON TRANSPORT LTD, ALBANY STREET, NEWPORT, NP20 5NJ
New authorisation at this operating centre will be: 3 vehicle(s)
Removed operating centre: UNIT B1-B3, BUSINESS PARK, FFORDD PENAMSER, PORTHMADOG, LL49 9GB
https://assets.publishing.service.g.../file/753258/np-2172-1-november-2018.pdf..pdf

It's the lorry park that you can see if you're travelling west on the M4 towards the Brynglas tunnels on the left, just on the Newport side of the river.

 

[GusB]

Details of previous operations are fairly well documented in the old thread, which can be found here:

Cityfox Bus

Just to try and get some fresh sense into the Cityfox discussion, thought I'd create a thread where we can discuss the bus business, rather than the taxi business so much. If Rhys/Phil or anyone else can confirm - what is the new night service they have planned and will there be any day...

www.railforums.co.uk

Let's keep this thread for discussing the current operation.

 

[Citistar]

If I recall correctly, HCT's original operation of Bristol park and ride services was not done on a Western Traffic Area O licence. And although National Express no longer has registered services, they were all previously on a West Midlands O licence throughout the country.

HCT's Park & Ride was registered to run journeys in service back to London once a week in each direction, hence the registration covered SE Metropolitan as well as Western.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Although not yet on the website, a copy of the leaflet - including times, fares and map - has been posted to their Twitter. A round-trip from Waterloo is timed at 43 minutes with a frequency of every 15-20 minutes 0900-1700. As mentioned previously, fares are £5 for adults. Concessions are £4, children/student £3 and a group (4 people) £15. Cash and contactless accepted.

The above summarises the leaflet content, as it’s not possible to copy and paste the images, but the tweet itself can be found at: https://twitter.com/londonerbuses/status/1579186588881661953

 

[Megafuss]

Although not yet on the website, a copy of the leaflet - including times, fares and map - has been posted to their Twitter. A round-trip from Waterloo is timed at 43 minutes with a frequency of every 15-20 minutes 0900-1700. As mentioned previously, fares are £5 for adults. Concessions are £4, children/student £3 and a group (4 people) £15. Cash and contactless accepted.

The above summarises the leaflet content, as it’s not possible to copy and paste the images, but the tweet itself can be found at: https://twitter.com/londonerbuses/status/1579186588881661953

Got to be honest, the one thing that puts me off using the current tour buses is how long they take.

I'd be tempted to give that a go given a relatively short route just to experience a Routemaster.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Got to be honest, the one thing that puts me off using the current tour buses is how long they take.

I'd be tempted to give that a go given a relatively short route just to experience a Routemaster.

Big Bus has three - 1h10, 1h20 and then a big 2h30 extended one

I know it's heresy to say this but... have to say that I've never been that fussed about Routemasters.

 

[Megafuss]

Big Bus has three - 1h10, 1h20 and then a big 2h30 extended one

I know it's heresy to say this but... have to say that I've never been that fussed about Routemasters.

I know what you mean. Give me a Scania N113 any day!

 

[Hophead]

Although not yet on the website, a copy of the leaflet - including times, fares and map - has been posted to their Twitter. A round-trip from Waterloo is timed at 43 minutes with a frequency of every 15-20 minutes 0900-1700. As mentioned previously, fares are £5 for adults. Concessions are £4, children/student £3 and a group (4 people) £15. Cash and contactless accepted.

The above summarises the leaflet content, as it’s not possible to copy and paste the images, but the tweet itself can be found at: https://twitter.com/londonerbuses/status/1579186588881661953

Those fares are valid all day, so something of a bargain for anyone interested in riding around on Routemasters.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Here are two screenshots of Londoner Buses' publicity material.

Mod note: Any images posted should be accompanied by a text description in order to make your post more accessible.