Transpennine Route Upgrade: potential timetable / service changes

[61653 HTAFC]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...pgrade-and-electrification-updates-cp6.88054/

That maybe the reasoning for the extension of the stopper to Wakefield/York as that route will be diesel for some time yet.

That's likely a factor. There's a few other bonuses too, it allows six car workings in the peaks and restores the Huddersfield to Wakefield link that's currently reduced to a few buses in the peak and the very unreliable Arriva 231/232. Did we ever get confirmation of whether that service will call at Mirfield? Not doing so would be a missed opportunity if the paths allow it, as there's a fair bit of schools traffic to Queen Elizabeth Girls Grammar School (QUEGGS) from there to Wakefield.

 

[CAF397]

That's likely a factor. There's a few other bonuses too, it allows six car workings in the peaks and restores the Huddersfield to Wakefield link that's currently reduced to a few buses in the peak and the very unreliable Arriva 231/232. Did we ever get confirmation of whether that service will call at Mirfield? Not doing so would be a missed opportunity if the paths allow it, as there's a fair bit of schools traffic to Queen Elizabeth Girls Grammar School (QUEGGS) from there to Wakefield.

Unless they rejig the timetable, the Saltburn would be right up the (new Castleford/York) stoppers backside at Mirfield!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Unless they rejig the timetable, the Saltburn would be right up the (new Castleford/York) stoppers backside at Mirfield!

That's annoying. Mirfield probably has a fair bit of potential to grow with an improved service frequency.

 

[IanXC]

Unless they rejig the timetable, the Saltburn would be right up the (new Castleford/York) stoppers backside at Mirfield!

Of course in the long term the timetable will be rejiged to deliver the Manchester-Leeds-York journey times, but even without that presumably the Piccadilly-Castleford-York will run on the slows after Huddersfield, and the Saltburn on the fasts.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Of course in the long term the timetable will be rejiged to deliver the Manchester-Leeds-York journey times, but even without that presumably the Piccadilly-Castleford-York will run on the slows after Huddersfield, and the Saltburn on the fasts.

If the extension to Wakefield and beyond is going to be permanent, it'll have to run on the slows East of Huddersfield as there'll be no access from the fasts to the line towards Healey Mills and Wakefield. Though my query about a Mirfield stop was looking at the more immediate future. Presumably once the four tracking is done the only things that won't stop at Mirfield on the slow lines will be freight. I wonder if Grand Central will add a Ravensthorpe stop, assuming they'll still exist.

 

[YorkshireBear]

That's annoying. Mirfield probably has a fair bit of potential to grow with an improved service frequency.

Once the four tracking is done I could see mirfield getting a better service than currently.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Once the four tracking is done I could see mirfield getting a better service than currently.

Supposedly one of the benefits of the upgrade is the Huddersfield to Leeds stopper going up to 2tph... whether that actually happens as opposed to the treasury saying no, is another thing altogether. It would be complicated by the existence of the Northern Wigan via Brighouse service which currently runs in the opposite half-hour.

 

[childwallblues]

Supposedly one of the benefits of the upgrade is the Huddersfield to Leeds stopper going up to 2tph... whether that actually happens as opposed to the treasury saying no, is another thing altogether. It would be complicated by the existence of the Northern Wigan via Brighouse service which currently runs in the opposite half-hour.

So Mirfield does get 2 trains per hour to Leeds at the moment.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So Mirfield does get 2 trains per hour to Leeds at the moment.

But only one to Huddersfield due to the Wakefield/Castleford not running. Historically the place has looked to Huddersfield more than anywhere else. Prior to the line through Brighouse reopening, there were two Leeds to Huddersfield stoppers per hour during the peaks in addition to the Wakefield service.

 

[modernrail]

But only one to Huddersfield due to the Wakefield/Castleford not running. Historically the place has looked to Huddersfield more than anywhere else. Prior to the line through Brighouse reopening, there were two Leeds to Huddersfield stoppers per hour during the peaks in addition to the Wakefield service.

I am surprised we are not seeing a ‘West Yorkshire Metro’ concept arise through all of this when such a concept is coming together in much smaller population centres. It really is a dogs dinner that also keeps changing.

I grew up in Brighouse without the station and so it’s great to see that now in play, but the idea that all this money is being spent on TRU and there is any question of there being at least 2 per hour Huddersfield to Leeds stoppers and 1 per hour Huddersfield to Wakefield (and it should be 2) seems crazy. Then you have all the nonsense of the Colne valley skip stopping. None of it is how you would draw out the service pattern for a proper urban metro service, which is what it is, between some big population centres.

The local services in this part of West Yorkshire really do seem to play second fiddle to TPE which don’t get me wrong is a massively important service. Having spent lots of my teenage and adult life on the route I have always thought 4 per hour max TPE long trains on the northern core (9/10 coaches if poss) is what is needed on TPE with a properly integrated local service so all the connections work. What is proposed feels a world away from this and really not very user friendly.

 

[YorksLad12]

I am surprised we are not seeing a ‘West Yorkshire Metro’ concept arise through all of this when such a concept is coming together in much smaller population centres. It really is a dogs dinner that also keeps changing.

I grew up in Brighouse without the station and so it’s great to see that now in play, but the idea that all this money is being spent on TRU and there is any question of there being at least 2 per hour Huddersfield to Leeds stoppers and 1 per hour Huddersfield to Wakefield (and it should be 2) seems crazy. Then you have all the nonsense of the Colne valley skip stopping. None of it is how you would draw out the service pattern for a proper urban metro service, which is what it is, between some big population centres.

The local services in this part of West Yorkshire really do seem to play second fiddle to TPE which don’t get me wrong is a massively important service. Having spent lots of my teenage and adult life on the route I have always thought 4 per hour max TPE long trains on the northern core (9/10 coaches if poss) is what is needed on TPE with a properly integrated local service so all the connections work. What is proposed feels a world away from this and really not very user friendly.

I think that that's what the Mass Transit plans are about - taking away stoppers from busy routes (such as Bradford-Leeds) while increasing the frequency and connecting some places without direct rail links (Beadford-Dewsbury) would give you a metro-style service.

 

[Manutd1999]

I imagine a 2ph stopper from Huddersfield to Leeds will be the first thing to be introduced once the 4-tracking is complete. The Brighouse service may then be able to run a bit faster, calling only at Mirfield and Dewsbury.

Longer term, once the full route is wired (not until 2030 ish?), there should be capacity for 6ph 'fast' + 2ph stoppers. I would arrange the fast services as follows:

2ph Liverpool - Newcastle, calling at Huddersfield only between Victoria and Leeds
1ph Airport - Hull, calling at Huddersfield and Dewsbury
1ph Airport - Middlesborough, calling at Huddersfield and Dewsbury
1ph Piccadilly - York via Leeds, calling at Guide Bridge, Stalybridge, Huddersfield, Mirfield, Dewsbury
1ph Piccadilly - York via Wakefield calling at Guide Bridge, Stalybridge, Huddersfield, Mirfield,

+2ph Huddersfield to Leeds all stations
+2ph Victoria to Huddersfield all stations
+1ph Calder Valley to Leeds calling at Mirfield and Dewsbury

 

[YorksLad12]

One issue is that Leeds is full. Adding in lots of new services is fine, but they will need to platform somewhere.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I imagine a 2ph stopper from Huddersfield to Leeds will be the first thing to be introduced once the 4-tracking is complete. The Brighouse service may then be able to run a bit faster, calling only at Mirfield and Dewsbury

That service already skips the smaller stops (Cottingley and Ravensthorpe) but I wouldn't want it skipping Batley. Presumably once White Rose opens it'll call there, as giving that station just an hourly service would be almost as daft as building it in the first place.

 

[Manutd1999]

That service already skips the smaller stops (Cottingley and Ravensthorpe) but I wouldn't want it skipping Batley. Presumably once White Rose opens it'll call there, as giving that station just an hourly service would be almost as daft as building it in the first place.

Is there is much demand from Batley to Brighouse/Sowerby/Hebden Bridge? I would have imagined that 2ph Huddersfield-Leeds would be sufficient

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is there is much demand from Batley to Brighouse/Sowerby/Hebden Bridge? I would have imagined that 2ph Huddersfield-Leeds would be sufficient

There's a fair bit, the service has existed long enough now that people have come to depend on it. A neighbour of mine commutes to Rochdale from Batley several times a week, he wasn't happy when the 2018 timetable removed the Batley stop and left him with a less-than-ideal connection at Dewsbury.
The faster journey to Huddersfield and beyond on the Hull to Piccadilly service was scant consolation, especially as it messed up the service intervals for shorter journeys too.