Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[sjm77]

Correct! After the first improvements at Stoke the 15mph restriction still applied which in my opinion was a totally stupid thing to leave in. We waste so much money like at Stalybridge where there was a remodelling 10 years ago or so to imporve speeds towards Piccadilly.

 

[Elecman]

Certainly the Jarvis WCRM depot at Vernon Road was mobilised, demobilised then re mobilised and eventually demobilised a second time so definitely 2 bites of the cherry. I know as I was the assistant Jarvis Property manager at the time

 

[snowball]

A few hours ago a thread was created to ask why the layout at Stalybridge has been remodelled twice in not very many years. After a few posts the mods closed the thread and directed discussion here. I just thought I'd add a point or two to the replies posted there.

The previous remodelling was in 2012 (a few months before I joined the forum) and was discussed at the time in this thread.

As @Rail Ranger says in the short-lived thread, the 2012 scheme was designed to make the line to Guide Bridge and Piccadilly the main and faster route. I think that by the time the work started, the decision had already been taken that, as part of the Northern Hub, the line to Ashton and Victoria would become the main route. However I assume the works were already in the pipeline and, as I expressed it in a previous discussion of this question, the Network Rail supertanker could not be turned round quickly enough.

 

[TheHSRailFan]

Surprising how quickly the OHLE gantry went up (despite the OHLE equipment itself is not in place) while the track layout at Stalybridge was being redone. Certainly is a good case for mass electrification.

 

[59CosG95]

New OLE portal & TTC (Series 1 steelwork) now up at Neville Hill.
Taken from the TRUpgrade Twitter feed.

 

[snowball]

So that's presumably

New OLE portal & TTC (Series 1 steelwork) now up at Neville Hill.
Taken from the TRUpgrade Twitter feed.

So there are now three sites with above-ground OLE steelwork put in as part of the TRU: Church Fenton-Colton, Manchester-Stalybridge, and Neville Hill.

 

[John R]

Took me a little time to find it, but for those interested, the Twitter tag is @theTRUpgrade.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Transpennine%20upgrade&src=typed_query&f=top

 

[SouthEastBuses]

New OLE portal & TTC (Series 1 steelwork) now up at Neville Hill.
Taken from the TRUpgrade Twitter feed.

Please tell me that this is the beginning of electrification between Leeds and Church Fenton!

 

[59CosG95]

Please tell me that this is the beginning of electrification between Leeds and Church Fenton!

It is - although this is the only part so far AFAIK.

 

[quantinghome]

Please tell me that this is the beginning of electrification between Leeds and Church Fenton!

The main line around Neville Hill is being realigned to the South to increase line speed. Electrification will be pretty much the last thing that happens, after the new alignment is created. What we've seen here appears to be replacing the headspan sections with cantilevers and portals to maintain electric access to Neville Hill while the headspan columns are removed in preparation for the realignment. So, yes, the beginning. But very much the beginning of the beginning and I wouldn't expect to see much more for a while.

 

[jonesy3001]

Been a while since I've been on the leeds to york line but cannot remember if there's any tunnels on the line or its all open.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

It is - although this is the only part so far AFAIK.

Still a good step though!

Also off topic but please check DMs, I've sent you a message in private chat

 

[snowball]

Been a while since I've been on the leeds to york line but cannot remember if there's any tunnels on the line or its all open.

There's a short tunnel in Leeds on the four-track section about a mile east of the station. Already electrified as part of the route to Neville Hill. A big round single arch over all four tracks, seen here on Google Streetview.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

 

[jonesy3001]

There's a short tunnel in Leeds on the four-track section about a mile east of the station.

Been looking at one of don coffeys videos of leeds to york line looks one bridge might need raising unless they lower the track at cross gates station.

 

[Batley Lad]

Batley - Former Adwalton line at Lady Anne Crossing.

Still grading the embankment and what will become the new line side footpath.



Rutland Road

The trackside footbridge support foundation has been revealed in part - now part covered with large concrete blocks.

 

[snowball]

What is the current speed limit in the Neville Hill area and what might it be raised to with realignment?

 

[D6130]

What is the current speed limit in the Neville Hill area and what might it be raised to with realignment?

Currently 55....and I think the plan is to raise it to 75, but I'm open to correction on that.

 

[quantinghome]

Currently 55....and I think the plan is to raise it to 75, but I'm open to correction on that.

Sounds about right - this was the from a presentation a few years ago (red pen around the Neville Hill area):

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's worth pointing out that the improved line speeds around Stalybridge don't yet match the expectations set in the Northern Hub future speed profile chart.
The best speed through Ashton Moss is 75 not 80, and the new line speed through Stalybridge is 55 not 70.

 

[InOban]

As I understand it, delivering 70 through Stalybridge towards Vic would have meant a much slower limit towards Picc. This layout gives the same limit to both routes, presumably eliminating approach control etc.

 

[themiller]

As I understand it, delivering 70 through Stalybridge towards Vic would have meant a much slower limit towards Picc. This layout gives the same limit to both routes, presumably eliminating approach control etc.

Would I be correct in thinking that, when the line is resignalled, trains will run at the higher limits as approach control will be ‘built in’ to the new signalling system?

 

[jfollows]

Would I be correct in thinking that, when the line is resignalled, trains will run at the higher limits as approach control will be ‘built in’ to the new signalling system?

I wouldn't put it that way, no.
Approach control here means using restrictive signal aspects to slow trains down when the route is set for the slower route. This causes trains to slow down more than they need to, but is safe. Flashing yellow aspects help reduce the negative effect.
However the point here is that it won't be necessary any more; if the two possible routes have the same speed after the changes then the signals can use full clear aspects for both routes, dependent only on the position of trains ahead, in other words both routes can be signalled with green aspects throughout. Approach control is eliminated, rather than 'built in'.

 

[themiller]

I wouldn't put it that way, no.
Approach control here means using restrictive signal aspects to slow trains down when the route is set for the slower route. This causes trains to slow down more than they need to, but is safe. Flashing yellow aspects help reduce the negative effect.
However the point here is that it won't be necessary any more; if the two possible routes have the same speed after the changes then the signals can use full clear aspects for both routes, dependent only on the position of trains ahead, in other words both routes can be signalled with green aspects throughout. Approach control is eliminated, rather than 'built in'.

Sorry I didn’t make myself clear, I was referring to when the line is resignalled with ETCS rather than the resignalling associated with the current Stalybridge work.

 

[sjm77]

As I understand it, delivering 70 through Stalybridge towards Vic would have meant a much slower limit towards Picc. This layout gives the same limit to both routes, presumably eliminating approach control etc.

This was mentioned a few months ago on here. There is a combined maximum possible limit that applies when you add the speed for both directions together.

 

[themiller]

This was mentioned a few months ago on here. There is a combined maximum possible limit that applies when you add the speed for both directions together.

Ah, right. I'd thought that the new layout permitted different speeds on the two routes but the signalling had been simplified by setting the speeds for both routes at the lower value.
Must pay better attention!

 

[snowball]

The limitation is due to the space available for putting tracks down , or the structures on which tracks must sit. The better you (the designer) align the track for one route, the less your ability to align it well for the other one.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Sorry I didn’t make myself clear, I was referring to when the line is resignalled with ETCS rather than the resignalling associated with the current Stalybridge work.

As far as we know, ETCS will only be installed east of Stalybridge (to be controlled from York ROC).
The western end (Victoria-Stalybridge) is signalled from Manchester ROC and is not in the ETCS plan.

 

[chazi898]

The remodelling at Stalybridge is great, but I can't help thinking they missed a trick.
There's still a gap in the middle of the station where the through lines used to go; could they've not realigned the down platform through there to attain a higher speed? perhaps 60?

 

[59CosG95]

The remodelling at Stalybridge is great, but I can't help thinking they missed a trick.
There's still a gap in the middle of the station where the through lines used to go; could they've not realigned the down platform through there to attain a higher speed? perhaps 60?

Doing so would have made the OLE installation more difficult, among many other things.

 

[Mollman]

This was mentioned a few months ago on here. There is a combined maximum possible limit that applies when you add the speed for both directions together.

Which will make Micklefield interesting as the current (newish) junction alignment has made the York route the main but Selby is within the allowance for flashing yellows. Making York even higher speed would surely mean approach control being applied to the Selby line.