Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[LNW-GW Joint]

Balfour's £85m OLE contract is for the "Northern Hub and Electrification" work, and I don't think this includes Diggle - but Balfour's work does include the OLE foundations.

Must make for some interesting project meetings between LNW/LNE routes, if one contractor is doing the foundations and another the wiring!
BB now have a good head of steam on their foundation work.
Hopefully they will be busy for a decade or more in the NW.

 

[Ploughman]

Always used to be a case of the people at one end of Standedge tunnel not talking to those at the other. Leeds and Manchester railway offices.
Many a time possessions clashed and ballast trains could not get through.
West end portal of the tunnel was the boundary approx.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Always used to be a case of the people at one end of Standedge tunnel not talking to those at the other. Leeds and Manchester railway offices.
Many a time possessions clashed and ballast trains could not get through.
West end portal of the tunnel was the boundary approx.

And yet it used to be one railway (LNWR/LMS) from Liverpool to Leeds.

 

[snowball]

Rochdale Road, Manchester, is to be closed to rebuild the bridge over the line between Vic and Miles Platting for the Stalybridge wiring:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...lway-improvements-in-the-north-west-20ee.aspx

Work started this week and to complete the rebuild there will be a half road closure in place until 20 August 2014 and then a full road closure from 20 August 2014 to 15 January 2015.

And Oldham Road, Ashton-under-Lyne, recently reopened after bridge reconstruction:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...ee-weeks-early-in-Ashton-under-Lyne-20e4.aspx

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Rochdale Road, Manchester, is to be closed to rebuild the bridge over the line between Vic and Miles Platting for the Stalybridge wiring:

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...lway-improvements-in-the-north-west-20ee.aspx

As the A664 is a major road that takes the Manchester to Middleton route, it is not like talking about a minor disruption. I wonder if Livesey Street, Oldham Road and Collyhurst Street will be an approved diversion route ?

 

[WatcherZero]

Northern Futures (Cleggs pet project) conference today, Dft press release seems to hint at a soft announce of further electrification at some point during the day, though way its worded could just be Clegg making a manifesto pledge though dodgy of him to do so in a Government press release.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/northern-futures-improvements-for-northern-road-and-rail

As the Northern Futures Summit starts on 6 November, Nick Clegg announces better trains in the north to reduce overcrowding and cut journey times.

More than 25 million people use cross-Pennine rail routes every year, and over a third of passengers have to stand during their commute.

By 2025 the Deputy Prime Minister wants to see electrified cross-Pennine links between Liverpool and Manchester on one side and Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle and Hull on the other. This will shorten journey times to 40 minutes at most between any two of Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield and end the misery of overcrowding when people journey to work.

Nick Clegg said:


“One of the key things that comes up time and again is the need for better transport links – electrification for the rail networks connecting Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester, renovation of the dilapidated commuter lines. That is why I am pushing for a huge programme of transport improvements in the North to begin immediately.

“The suggestions and ideas we have had will be debated at the Northern Futures Summit in Leeds today, and I will turn as much as I can into swift action.

“London and South East has had billions of transport investment over recent years from HS1 to Crossrail to the Northern Line extension. The perfectly reasonable requests I have been hearing from the North are basics that are needed if we are to create a true economic hub in the North of England.

“The North needs improved transport now. The roads and railway lines connecting our great northern cities have seen improvements in recent years, but I want more. Much more.

“As we negotiate over what gets government funding in the Autumn Statement, one of my key priorities will be to change that. We need to get this started as soon as possible.

“I want a fully upgraded and electrified network between Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield by 2025.

“We also need to improve commuter services on lines that are not electrified. I want significant improvement – government money to buy better rolling stock to improve commuter routes in the north – also by 2025.

“Ancient rolling stock and lines that have not been upgraded in 30 years are not fit for a 21st century metropolis. Decrepit trains such as the Pacers, which are literally ancient buses on rails, are not a fair way for people in the North to get to and from work. They would not be deemed acceptable on London commuter lines, and they are not acceptable in the North.

“This is not just about rail. 64% of journeys in the North are by car. We need to build on the announcements already made to improve road links such as the M62. I want to go further, starting by extending the full stretch of the M62 between Manchester and Leeds to 8 lanes using the “smart” motorway model (that is, turning the hard shoulder into a fourth lane in each direction), and having a programme of improvements for the Woodhead Pass (A618/A626) between Manchester and Sheffield. I will push to see these in the upcoming Roads Investment Strategy for completion by 2025.”

 

[Haydn1971]

It's all in the terminology - 8 lanes ? We highway engineers usually refer to the lanes in a single direction - currently 3, but "easy" to make into 4 (4+4)

Also, loving the new improved A618/A626 route, although I'd prefer them to upgrade the A616/A628 route haha

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's all in the terminology - 8 lanes ? We highway engineers usually refer to the lanes in a single direction - currently 3, but "easy" to make into 4 (4+4)

Also, loving the new improved A618/A626 route, although I'd prefer them to upgrade the A616/A628 route haha

Well spotted! To be honest I'm not sure how much the A628 can be improved, given that it passes through the Peak District National Park...

Back on topic, over the last few months new/improved road/rail access points have been completed between Leeds and Manchester, with a large stockpile of concrete or steel blocks appearing in the Network Rail yard at Mirfield. Whether this is directly connected to the wiring though, I'm not sure.

 

[Olaf]

It just so happens that new stock will be introduced around 2025.

Once again, just more posturing from the school-boy contingent - Naughty Nick's pronouncements always remind me of Terry Scott's Curley Wurly adverts.

 

[WatcherZero]

misspost

 

[Senex]

And yet it used to be one railway (LNWR/LMS) from Liverpool to Leeds.

The former regional boundaries have a lot to answer for in Lancashire and Yorkshire.

 

[Olaf]

Rail magazine did do a good article last year I think on re-opening the woodhead route. I think it did state that it would be possible to re-open the line if there is demand.

I think National grid also mentioned that the cables could be moved if the line is going to be re-opened.

The Woodhead route is one line that should be re-opened as it provide a good link and should not really have been closed in the 1st place

Isn't the eastern portal too far south to be of value for achieving the goal of improving the Manchester to Leeds connection?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Isn't the eastern portal too far south to be of value for achieving the goal of improving the Manchester to Leeds connection?

OK, it seems its not going to happen anyway:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-24821652

 

[edwin_m]

As per that link, a new tunnel could be bored. The existing (1950s) one is probably too small anyway, especially if it UIC gauge or any carrying of HGVs is intended.

Woodhead might not be too far south if it was linked to the eastern leg of HS2, allowing a very fast journey northwards to Leeds and potentially beyond. At some point I might get round to estimating what the Manchester-Leeds journey time would be by this route.

 

[55z]

Geography seems to be a problem with some people or are too young to remember. Before 1974, The West Riding of Yorkshire included (if I remember correctly) Diggle, Greenfield, Saddlewotrh, Delph & Grotton. Mossley & Stalybridge were in Cheshire, Ashton was in Lancashire as was Lees & Oldham. There is a plan to move the Zonal boundry of Network Rail with Diggle Junction box moving into the LNE Zone and eventually control moving to the new York box.

 

[edwin_m]

Geography seems to be a problem with some people or are too young to remember. Before 1974, The West Riding of Yorkshire included (if I remember correctly) Diggle, Greenfield, Saddlewotrh, Delph & Grotton. Mossley & Stalybridge were in Cheshire, Ashton was in Lancashire as was Lees & Oldham. There is a plan to move the Zonal boundry of Network Rail with Diggle Junction box moving into the LNE Zone and eventually control moving to the new York box.

Mostly quite right, I remember "WRCC" on the school pencils in Dobcross and the paraffin lamps they threw into the river from the back of the council depot in Delph.

However I don't think Mossley was in Cheshire. From memory the Cheshire boundary was near where the Mossley-Stalybridge road does a dogleg under the railway. According to the link below Mossley was in Lancashire.

http://www3.lancashire.gov.uk/environment/oldmap/lcc1929/lcc1929.jpg

Signalling from New York sounds interesting... (joke!)

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Mostly quite right, I remember "WRCC" on the school pencils in Dobcross and the paraffin lamps they threw into the river from the back of the council depot in Delph.

However I don't think Mossley was in Cheshire. From memory the Cheshire boundary was near where the Mossley-Stalybridge road does a dogleg under the railway. According to the link below Mossley was in Lancashire.

Try this
http://wikishire.co.uk/map/#/centre=53.512,-1.955/zoom=10

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

However I don't think Mossley was in Cheshire. From memory the Cheshire boundary was near where the Mossley-Stalybridge road does a dogleg under the railway.

The border areas of the three counties of Cheshire, Lancashire and Yorkshire all met in the Mossley area. The whole of the borough area of Mossley was unified in 1888 under the administrative county of Lancashire under the terms of The Local Government Act.

Mossley has three parish wards based upon the areas of the historic county boundaries and the parish council has four members representing the Cheshire part, three members representing the Lancashire part and two members representing the Yorkshire part.

 

[Buspilot]

Sorry Paul, but that is not quite correct.

The Roaches area of Mossley remained in Yorkshire for some functions up to the creation of Greater Manchester. That is where the old Mossley Fire Station, now a childrens nursery, was, though this was a Lancashire CC Fire Station. In my late teen/early 20s, we used to drink in the Tolemache Arms there on a Friday until 10.30pm (Yorkshire closing time), then drive back towards Mossley Station, to the pub just over the river bridge, to carry on drinking as that was in Lancashire, with an 11.00pm closing time.

My wife, who is from Mossley, can also remember from the early 1960s that secondary education and the county boundaries had some of her friends going to schools up the Colne Valley(Yorkshire), Stalybridge (Cheshire) and not the Lancshire Schools which seemed appropriate,depending on where in Mossley they lived.

 

[matacaster]

As it does get rather windy over the pennines does anyone know if the knitting will be fit for purpose or poverty spec (a la ECML)?

 

[snowball]

At last, the first pre-electrification bridgeworks east of the Pennines (or indeed east of Stalybridge)!

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...tart-of-transformation-of-trans-pennine-route

Rail passengers and local residents are being warned to plan ahead this Easter as work to electrify the railway between Manchester and York gets underway.

This Easter engineers will be starting to replace two bridges near Bolton Percy. This seemingly routine work is the first of dozens of bridge replacements needed to enable electric trains to run on the route between York and Manchester for the first time.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

At last, the first pre-electrification bridgeworks east of the Pennines (or indeed east of Stalybridge)!

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...tart-of-transformation-of-trans-pennine-route

This seemingly routine work is the first of dozens of bridge replacements needed to enable electric trains to run on the route between York and Manchester for the first time.

I did not know there were so many.

 

[The Snap]

This seemingly routine work is the first of dozens of bridge replacements needed to enable electric trains to run on the route between York and Manchester for the first time.

I did not know there were so many.

55 to be precise, between Stalybridge and York via Leeds.

Of those, there are a few full deck replacements (not many), plenty of parapet extensions and anti-trespass steelwork, and a few track lowers.

The two at Easter are full deck replacements at NOC/15 and NOC/13, Bolton Percy and Brumber Hill respectively.

 

[Grumpy]

At last, the first pre-electrification bridgeworks east of the Pennines (or indeed east of Stalybridge)!

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...tart-of-transformation-of-trans-pennine-route

The press release says
"These bridges cross the lines between Leeds and York and between Leeds and Normanton. "

Er no.
I suspect they meant to say between York and Normanton.
Pretty poor really. Makes the manager quoted look like an idiot.

 

[The Snap]

The press release says
"These bridges cross the lines between Leeds and York and between Leeds and Normanton. "

Er no.
I suspect they meant to say between York and Normanton.
Pretty poor really. Makes the manager quoted look like an idiot.

Indeed!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

55 to be precise, between Stalybridge and York via Leeds.

Of those, there are a few full deck replacements (not many), plenty of parapet extensions and anti-trespass steelwork, and a few track lowers.

The two at Easter are full deck replacements at NOC/15 and NOC/13, Bolton Percy and Brumber Hill respectively.

Thank you for that - very informative. I suppose the anti-trespass (anti-electrocution!!) work on a bridge is far lower cost than full deck replacement.
I assume Full deck > track lower > parapet extension > anti -trespass in terms of cost?

 

[class 9]

As it does get rather windy over the pennines does anyone know if the knitting will be fit for purpose or poverty spec (a la ECML)?

The Trans Pennine route runs in the valleys and crosses the Pennines deep inside standedge tunnel, I don't think wind will be a problem.
The ECML wiring was done on the cheap, for a high speed railway the stantions are too far apart which causes more movement in the catenary.

 

[aylesbury]

According to sources the rate of electrification is approximately forty miles a year so its going to be a long job .With the seemingly slow progress on other work and a lack of expertise the whole project is seemingly doomed to be a long time coming.

 

[Class 170101]

The Trans Pennine route runs in the valleys and crosses the Pennines deep inside standedge tunnel, I don't think wind will be a problem.

Unless the wind blows in the 'wrong' direction creating a wind tunnel effect.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Thank you for that - very informative. I suppose the anti-trespass (anti-electrocution!!) work on a bridge is far lower cost than full deck replacement.
I assume Full deck > track lower > parapet extension > anti -trespass in terms of cost?

Not necessarily, as there comes a point where the depth of the track lower causes such a vast amount of work that the first two can swap, ultimately subject to the number of services in the bridge and the road profile over it.

 

[The Snap]

Thank you for that - very informative. I suppose the anti-trespass (anti-electrocution!!) work on a bridge is far lower cost than full deck replacement.
I assume Full deck > track lower > parapet extension > anti -trespass in terms of cost?

That's about right. Although an educated guess would say a track lower is closer than you might think to the price of a new deck, or indeed more, given all the plant, labour and track access required, plus preliminary and follow up shifts, tamping, TSRs etc etc.

The deck replacements are a solution to several problems (structure needs raising for OLE, structure is knackered etc, whereas track lowers can be used if the structure is too low but structurally sound.

The parapet extensions are to bring the parents up to spec (which is now 1.8m from footpath/road level in electrified areas). A lot of the existing structures along the route are at 1.5m or less on some of the older masonry parapets.

Anti-trespass involves installation of solid panels and inclined plates to the structure parapets and abutments, purely to prevent people climbing the structure to touch the OLE (quite why you would want to do that I don’t know!).