TransPennine Express checking the appetite for charging for seat reservations?

[Puffing Devil]

Just had a survey in the email from TPE

We’re always looking for ways to improve our services, and your feedback plays an important role in helping us shape future decisions.

We’d love to hear your thoughts on seat reservations and the ability to choose your seat before you travel. The survey only takes a few minutes to complete, and your feedback will help us understand what matters most to our customers.[/LEFT][/TD]

Asking first about how valuable seat reservations are to me, whether picking from a seating chart is useful, then it flips onto a pricing grid. How much would I be prepared to pay for a reservation?

They may be thinking about upselling "choose your seat".

 

[setdown]

There were reports in May about how TPE has weaker-than-expected revenue performance, I suppose this is to help offset that somewhat?

 

[mikeg]

I'd be all for it, we need to move to only a reserve a seat if you really want it instead of, you'll have a reservation whether you like it or not and we'll pretend the train is 'sold out', if we can't find you the same seat to reserve for the whole of your journey. The first is the norm in many countries, the latter, barring France and Serbia, I've not encountered anywhere else and belongs in 2020.

 

[flitwickbeds]

So I guess they are also going to guarantee no shortforming, no set swaps, no trains in reverse formation, and no cancellations going forwards?

 

[Kite159]

So I guess they are also going to guarantee no shortforming, no set swaps, no trains in reverse formation, and no cancellations going forwards?

No doubt it will be like the paid room selector on Travelodge, if the room you picked isn't available for whatever reason you get a refund.

 

[Iskra]

Isn't this just going to lead to even more heated arguments when someone refuses to vacate a seat that someone has paid a surcharge for? How is the Conductor going to enforce it in the lead 3 carriages of a 6-carriage formation? It sounds like something you would find on Ryanair, which is not something more premium-orientated TOC's ought to be emulating; leave that nonsense for the likes of Lumo.

 

[flitwickbeds]

No doubt it will be like the paid room selector on Travelodge, if the room you picked isn't available for whatever reason you get a refund.

And if I paid for seat B34 because it's a table seat facing forwards, and the train arrives in reverse formation so I'm sitting backwards? The seat exists, I sat in it, but it wasn't what I paid (potentially a higher price) for?

 

[Fokx]

And if I paid for seat B34 because it's a table seat facing forwards, and the train arrives in reverse formation so I'm sitting backwards? The seat exists, I sat in it, but it wasn't what I paid (potentially a higher price) for?

Transpennine don't guarantee direction of travel, so this won't be an issue as it simply won't be shown/displayed at the point of booking

 

[800001]

So no doubt this is the dft asking this under the guise of TPE, looking at ways to make more money.

 

[BurtonM]

They'd better not start charging for the bike space, it's bad enough having to reserve it on TPE.

 

[Ballyheigue]

I'd go the exact opposite of having no seat reservations to aid faster boarding, first come, first served.

 

[Russel]

I'd fully support this, along with scraping mandatory reservations with advance tickets, if it reduces the number of seats that show as reserved but are vacant.

 

[LittleRedTrain]

While I'm a proponent of reducing the number of unnecessary seat reservations, I do hope they would at least provide free/discounted seat reservations for those who actually need them (disabled/senior railcard holders at least).

I'd also support making reservations free if you're booking more than two adult tickets (Or maybe if you're travelling with at least one child ticket) so groups/families can guarantee being seated together.

 

[Trainfan2019]

No chance at all of this working or being able to be enforced.

When I was travelling twice weekly between Sheffield and Stockport or Manchester about 7 years ago, I had plenty of times I've had to stand for the entire journey whilst someone else had my reserved seat.

Train so crowded that sometimes I couldn't even get near my reserved seat. No thanks, never want to go through that again. Reservations are just a bad idea from the start.

 

[VT 390]

I have been on many TransPennine services where there have been no seat reservations for many reasons like, short formations, printers not working, not downloading...

Unless they think they can reduce these issues occurring on virtually all services (outside of major disruption), a lot of the extra revenue from charging for reservations will be lost having to repay people. I would also think people will also be less forgiving of no reservations being available if they have paid for them compared to being offered for free.

In principle I may support a small charge for seat reservations in standard class, I think they should be free in first class, if it could be reliable provided, however by keeping it free it is easier to manage when it can not be provided as it is not a service someone has paid for.

If they were to introduce paid seat reservations I would want there to be a standalone reservation tool where you could just buy the seat reservation with no travel ticket which allows you to select the exact seat you want with a seat selector, the existing methods of doing this do not allow the exact seat to be selected.

But there should be an easy way to claim for not having the booked seat (like the delay repay form but for seats) this should also include being able to claim the cost back if a late service (even by another operator) causes a missed connection and not getting the seat you have paid for.

 

[Peter0124]

I'd go the exact opposite of having no seat reservations to aid faster boarding, first come, first served.

I disagree atleast on the long distance routes, it wouldn't be fair for passengers joining mid-journey

 

[trainophile]

I disagree atleast on the long distance routes, it wouldn't be fair for passengers joining mid-journey

Exactly. Cross Country is bad enough even with seat reservations usually working. I don't fancy standing from Birmingham to Bournemouth.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So no doubt this is the dft asking this under the guise of TPE, looking at ways to make more money.

If seat selection becomes the norm it makes sense to charge for it, because otherwise it results in inefficient seat allocation on a service with lots of overlapping journeys like TPE. You thus want only those who really value selection to use that feature, not everyone to use it by default.

 

[Class83]

If seat selection becomes the norm it makes sense to charge for it, because otherwise it results in inefficient seat allocation on a service with lots of overlapping journeys like TPE. You thus want only those who really value selection to use that feature, not everyone to use it by default.

I can understand removing seat selection as a choice (or charging for it) as an algorithm can most efficiently stack reservations so when one person alights, someone boarding then sits in the same seat, reducing the issue that 2 people reserving adjacent seats on a Liverpool-Newcastle service from Liverpool-Leeds, then Leeds-Newcastle, prevent either seat being available for a through Liverpool-Newcastle reservation.

 

[cornishjohn]

When (and why?) did reservations become free? I've just checked and they were 0/3/- in 1967(!) up to 60p in 1982. DB seem happy to charge a few euros for their reservations.

 

[RGM654]

I'd fully support this, along with scraping mandatory reservations with advance tickets, if it reduces the number of seats that show as reserved but are vacant.

Anyone with a valid ticket can sit in a seat that shows as reserved but is vacant.

 

[ic31420]

I am fine with reservations incurring a small charge.
But as others have said it'll either need stronger...... management on the train and/or a simple and quick way for train staff to send refunds but that bit is fraught with issue.

I recently travelled with two children (5 & 8) across the Pennines.
In all honesty I was booking tickets in a rush and just clicked through the bit about reservations and it allocated 3 airline seats spread around the aisle.
With the kids a table seat bay was what we needed.

When the train arrived it was running late and looking for a speedy departure, we just hopped on the nearest set of doors, finding the first table bay unoccupied and unreserved we sat at it. I didn't fancy dragging two kids and a bag through the train to find 3 less desirable seats that may have been occupied and then finding someone else had taken the table bay.

Looking at the reservation screens the untaken seats was booked part way along the journey but nobody turned up for it. Many of the other
reservations were not taken up either - I cant imagine so many people bought tickets and didn't travel so assume they sat elsewhere.

The return trip was a similar story. In all honesty I do feel a bit bad that we in essence occupied 6 seats, but then the train wasnt full and if I was looking for a seat and the reserved seat was empty after the reservation start station i wouldn't think twice about sitting it it - but some folks do.

If the reservation was paid for, i wouldn't have bothered - I didn't know i had.

Personally i think the whole ticketing system needs a overhaul and massive simplification.

I really hate the drive towards pre-booking and advance tickets, I just don't see the point, its not as if the promised longer trains or relief trains for busy times ever materialised or realistically can materialise. - But thats for a different thread

 

[JamesT]

When (and why?) did reservations become free? I've just checked and they were 0/3/- in 1967(!) up to 60p in 1982. DB seem happy to charge a few euros for their reservations.

I want to say sometime in the mid-2000s. I certainly remember there being a fee in the early part of the decade when I was booking tickets. I think I want to say that Advance tickets came with a reservation, so it was seen as unfair that you had to pay extra on the expensive ticket to get something you got for free on the cheap one.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'd go the exact opposite of having no seat reservations to aid faster boarding, first come, first served.

Trouble with first come first served is that it is survival of the fittest. The people who can’t move so fast- the old, the infirm, those with children- are the ones least likely to be able to get a seat.

I'd fully support this, along with scraping mandatory reservations with advance tickets, if it reduces the number of seats that show as reserved but are vacant.

Advance tickets aren’t really an issue for this: advance ticket holders are, by and large, on the train they booked. It’s the flexible ticket holders who are the issue because they can, entirely legitimately, reserve on one train then catch another train.

If seat selection becomes the norm it makes sense to charge for it, because otherwise it results in inefficient seat allocation on a service with lots of overlapping journeys like TPE

That’s because the underlying reservation system is archaic. A modern system should have no issue in offering seat selection but blocking or hiding certain seats at selection to prevent this issue.

Anyway, if they charge for this sort of thing then there needs to be much more vigorous and visible enforcement of seat reservations. It’s amazing how often the reservation labels magically disappear from seats on the 185s when someone has got themselves comfortable and doesn’t want to move. If I’ve paid a fee to choose or reserve my seat then I want the guard to come and make them move.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s because the underlying reservation system is archaic. A modern system should have no issue in offering seat selection but blocking or hiding certain seats at selection to prevent this issue.

This is dishonest. Seats should not generally be blocked or hidden, though there is a case for differential pricing based on desirability that they are selected.

I find it very annoying that TPE blocks priority seat selection (rather than just keeping a few of them back for assistance bookings based on likely demand). I would rather pay a fee and be able to select them.

 

[sh24]

Anyway, if they charge for this sort of thing then there needs to be much more vigorous and visible enforcement of seat reservations. It’s amazing how often the reservation labels magically disappear from seats on the 185s when someone has got themselves comfortable and doesn’t want to move. If I’ve paid a fee to choose or reserve my seat then I want the guard to come and make them move.

Exactly. The solution needs to be really robust and enforced by staff who won't run away at the slightest sign of confrontation. Train information and signage needs a huge improvement too.

It's an important area for many customers especially those using rail infrequently.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This is dishonest. Seats should not generally be blocked or hidden, though there is a case for differential pricing based on desirability that they are selected.

I wouldn’t say it was dishonest, the offer of available seats doesn’t have to be every seat on the train. It’s something the airlines have always done- on BA row one is blocked to anyone except those who hold Gold tier in their frequent flyer scheme, and the system will also block the seat next to those with higher status in the scheme.

 

[VT 390]

Advance tickets aren’t really an issue for this: advance ticket holders are, by and large, on the train they booked. It’s the flexible ticket holders who are the issue because they can, entirely legitimately, reserve on one train then catch another train.

Perhaps a good way to trail charging for seat reservations would be to continue to offer them free on Advance tickets but charge for flexible tickets or standalone reservations.

 

[LowLevel]

Personally I think the proportions should be upended - have a much smaller section of the train available to those who really want a reservation and don't mind paying a small fee for it - say between £1 and £5. I appreciate the importance for those who want to sit together, or for example those who are joining away from a station with a lot of demand who might not get a seat otherwise.

My own TOC got rid 5 years ago and there have been few complaints - it made life much easier for regular staff and passengers.

No more refereeing fights where one party is incapable of reading their coupon (wrong train? Wrong day? Wrong direction?)

No more little toe rags dancing through the coach removing all the labels and binning them

No more aggressive types selectively removing labels then denying all knowledge

No more explaining to Muriel who doesn't like going backwards that it isn't possible to reserve a forward facing seat on a train that reverses (twice).

No more dealing with complaints that the request for a solo occupied bay of 4 seat with a sea view has been fulfilled as an airline seat with a plastic panel

No more cramming passengers into 2 of 4 coaches with all their luggage when the 2 unreserved coaches are empty

I could go on but I'm bored now. Unless you go for the French model of every seat is reserved which we largely seem to be of a consensus we don't want, reservations are always going to be poorly delivered.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Perhaps a good way to trail charging for seat reservations would be to continue to offer them free on Advance tickets but charge for flexible tickets or standalone reservations.

National Express tried it many years ago with their Anglia and East Coast franchises. Free with advance tickets, £5 otherwise.

Given that nobody else followed them, I think we can assume it didn’t go well.