Trans Pennine Express - TIR Expired Railcard

[sjkersh]

Hi All,

I received a TIR on 1/12/25 on a TPE train between Stockport and Leeds as I presented an expired railcard, I had forgotten to check it and only realised when I opened it up to see that it had expired a couple of weeks prior. I hadn't used it since early October. The conductor took my details and I received the attached letter today.

I have been reading this forum since I got the report and I have borrowed some of the tips that you have all helpfully mentioned to other people to use in my response to this which I will post below, I would appreciate any further steer or advice you have on this, and if I have interpreted this letter correctly.

Thanks!

Response draft -

Dear Sir or Madam,

Further to the letter received from you on 16/12/25 following the incident that occurred on 1/12/25 on my journey from Stockport to Leeds, I would like to offer my sincere apologies. I neglected to check the validity of my 26-30 Railcard before booking and boarding the train, and only noticed that it had expired upon me presenting my railcard to the conductor onboard.

I understand the importance of ensuring that my railcard is valid, and I am disappointed in my negligence in allowing the validity to lapse. I have learned from this event, and upon receipt of the Travel Irregularity Report, I immediately renewed my railcard, which I have attached a screenshot of for your reassurance, and I have also put an additional level of planning in place by creating a calendar notification to remind me to renew my railcard for the following year, so that this does not happen again.

I am keen to pay the money outstanding for the full, undiscounted journey between Stockport and Leeds along with a contribution to your costs.

Kind Regards,

 

[30907]

Looks straightforward and should achieve your aim.

Last sentence perhaps ".... along with the administrative costs incurred"
(They won't be happy with a "contribution" )

Generally you would specifically reference settling out of court, but as they haven't mentioned prosecution there's no need to.

 

[sjkersh]

Looks straightforward and should achieve your aim.

Last sentence perhaps ".... along with the administrative costs incurred"
(They won't be happy with a "contribution" )

Generally you would specifically reference settling out of court, but as they haven't mentioned prosecution there's no need to.

Thanks for your response!

I've been re-reading the letter and I am looking at the text in bold "If you do in fact have a valid Railcard, or you renewed your Railcard on the same day, please contact us online via our support page... If we have sight of a Railcard which would have been valid on the date you were travelling, then no additional fare will be due and the matter will be closed".

As I renewed my railcard on the same day, albeit after the incident, if I present evidence of that (maybe use the same response drafted but omit the last sentence), does it sound like they wouldn't chase for any further payment?

 

[z444z]

As I renewed my railcard on the same day, albeit after the incident, if I present evidence of that (maybe use the same response drafted but omit the last sentence), does it sound like they wouldn't chase for any further payment?

I would be surprised if that’s the case but that is how that sentence reads to me too. They also said “If we need to, we will write to you again advising you of any amounts you owe”, so I don’t think it’s in your interests to tell them what you want to pay at this stage.

Their letter is far less threatening that what we usually see from other train companies (they haven’t even threatened prosecution?!), and doesn’t seem to give a deadline for response which is also unusual.

I’d suggest keeping your response short and to the point, which is that you immediately renewed your railcard, because that’s what their letter actually asks about, nothing more.

With all that in mind I’d suggest some changes, see below:

REFERENCE: [INSERT REFERENCE]

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing in response to your letter dated [INSERT DATE ON LETTER] regarding my journey from Stockport to Leeds on 01/12/2025.

I would like to offer my sincere apologies for travelling with an expired railcard. This was not deliberate, and the error only came to my attention when pointed out by the member of staff. I have learned my lesson, and following the interaction and being issued the travel irregularity report, I immediately renewed my railcard (evidence attached). I have also set a calendar notification to remind me to renew my railcard so that this does not happen again.

Kind Regards,

 

[sjkersh]

I would be surprised if that’s the case but that is how that sentence reads to me too. They also said “If we need to, we will write to you again advising you of any amounts you owe”, so I don’t think it’s in your interests to tell them what you want to pay at this stage.

Their letter is far less threatening that what we usually see from other train companies (they haven’t even threatened prosecution?!), and doesn’t seem to give a deadline for response which is also unusual.

I’d suggest keeping your response short and to the point, which is that you immediately renewed your railcard, because that’s what their letter actually asks about, nothing more.

With all that in mind I’d suggest some changes, see below:

Appreciate your response, glad it's not just me that was expecting something a bit more threatening.

Just on your point about the deadline, that's my fault, I must have cut the bottom of the letter out, where it just says that they must receive my correspondence within 14 days.

 

[z444z]

Just on your point about the deadline, that's my fault, I must have cut the bottom of the letter out, where it just says that they must receive my correspondence within 14 days.

Ok that makes sense. Unless there’s more info that’s been cut out, my advice would remain unchanged.

If their letter is dated 16th then they want to receive your response by the 30th. It’s a really busy time of year for post so I’d definitely send it this week, and used a tracked post service. As long as you send it this week I’d say special delivery is overkill but Tracked 24 is probably a good idea.

But it’s also important to make sure as many forum members as possible, especially those with loads of experience, have had the chance to give you their advice, so I’d wait until at least tomorrow afternoon before deciding on a final version and sending it off!

 

[ChilliSauce]

I would be surprised if that’s the case but that is how that sentence reads to me too. They also said “If we need to, we will write to you again advising you of any amounts you owe”, so I don’t think it’s in your interests to tell them what you want to pay at this stage.

Their letter is far less threatening that what we usually see from other train companies (they haven’t even threatened prosecution?!), and doesn’t seem to give a deadline for response which is also unusual.

I’d suggest keeping your response short and to the point, which is that you immediately renewed your railcard, because that’s what their letter actually asks about, nothing more.

With all that in mind I’d suggest some changes, see below:

That's how I read it ....basically please demonstrate that you renewed your Railcard on the same day .... And that will be ok

Perhaps the response back should be that simple as in: I attach proof as per your request that I did renew my Railcard on the same day .. Please confirm that the case is now closed. Thank you ...

Then see what they come back with ...

 

[sjkersh]

Thanks Both,

I've unfortunately already jumped the gun and sent off the response as amended by z444z. But would absolutely appreciate other member's interpretations of the letter's ambiguity!

Just for full clarity, this is the full letter. I sent the response via what seems to be their preferred method on their website contact form. Do you think I should send off a physical letter to be safe?

From other cases I've been looking at on here, it does seem an unusual initial letter so I'll update when I've had something back!

 

[z444z]

Just for full clarity, this is the full letter. I sent the response via what seems to be their preferred method on their website contact form. Do you think I should send off a physical letter to be safe?

From other cases I've been looking at on here, it does seem an unusual initial letter so I'll update when I've had something back!

Website will be fine if that’s what the letter says.

Agreed it’s an unusual initial letter, updates much appreciated as it helps us learn!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Dec 2025 ==

Just a thought - did the website give you any kind of confirmation it’s been sent, or have you received a confirmation email?

 

[sjkersh]

Just a thought - did the website give you any kind of confirmation it’s been sent, or have you received a confirmation email?

Yes, a confirmation email came through, and an invitation to create an account on their online portal to track the status of the case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Dec 2025 ==

Agreed it’s an unusual initial letter, updates much appreciated as it helps us learn!

Hi All,

Response received and they have accepted my evidence and closed this matter. I will post the full response below.

____________________

Thank you for sight of your Railcard.

When validating your Railcard we note that you purchased the Railcard on 1st December at 8.46. This was after the time that you were originally asked to show a valid Railcard and would indicate that you did not actually own a valid Railcard when you were asked to show one at the time of travel.

On this occasion, as you purchased the Railcard on the same date as you made your journey, then we are prepared to accept the Railcard as valid for this one particular journey. However, it must be noted that you are required to show a valid Railcard at the same time as you show your ticket, and if you fail to do so then your ticket is not valid. If, when asked to show a valid ticket, you either have no ticket, or the ticket you show is not valid (which would be the case if you failed to show a valid Railcard), then you can be in contravention of Railway Byelaws. Contravening Railway Byelaws is a criminal offence which could result in the matter being reported for consideration of prosecution. Therefore, to avoid such action in the future, please ensure your Railcard is valid at the time you start your journey and can be shown at the same time as your ticket, when you are asked to do so.

Important notes:

• We are prepared to accept your Railcard as valid for this one particular journey only. If you are unable to show a valid Railcard on future journeys then we are likely to be less lenient and you may be liable, in accordance with the Railcard Terms & Conditions and the National Rail Conditions of Travel, to pay for a new ticket, receive a Penalty Fare, or be reported for consideration of prosecution.

• As the report to this office has identified that you did not own a valid Railcard at the time you started your journey, and you only purchased / renewed your Railcard after being spoken to by our Revenue Inspector, then we reserve the right to carry out an investigation to ascertain whether you have made any other journeys using Railcard discounted tickets before you actually purchased a valid Railcard. We may therefore contact you again in the future should we identify any journeys where we have reasonable grounds to believe you may have travelled without a valid ticket.

 

[z444z]

Wow, I don’t think I recall any other TOC taking this approach. Very happy to see this outcome for you, thanks for updating us!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Wow, I don’t think I recall any other TOC taking this approach. Very happy to see this outcome for you, thanks for updating us!

We should perhaps keep our eyes open for anything else from TPE - it maybe that the wording will be revised to be less supportive in future.

 

[30907]

Reading the reply in post #10 I don't think TPE's original letter is an error, as their reply is on identical lines.
If it is a new policy, it is on the generous side - I would have expected them to ask for the fare as well - but from TPE's viewpoint it has allowed them to trawl the OP's history and catch repeat offenders.

 

[dodecahedron67]

I believe the TPE policy is a ‘TIR warning’ for first time offences now. Allows for details to be held in the system and if repeated, then it’s cut and dry…

 

[ainsworth74]

I believe the TPE policy is a ‘TIR warning’ for first time offences now. Allows for details to be held in the system and if repeated, then it’s cut and dry…

Yes this tallies with my understanding of TPEs approach to things like invalid railcards. Or at least where it's only a little bit of out of date anyway! Good to see that the approach is definitely being followed.

 

[30907]

Yes this tallies with my understanding of TPEs approach to things like invalid railcards. Or at least where it's only a little bit of out of date anyway! Good to see that the approach is definitely being followed.

Thanks. One would hope it would be adopted GBR-wide.

 

[KirkstallOne]

Interesting thanks for sharing the full letters. A very reasonable approach taken by TPE here and not one we have seen before

 

[TheGoodCitizen]

Hey man, similar incidents happened to me.

It's my first time travelling from Scotland to England, and I failed to provide the RailCard where I bought the ticket at its reduced price. However, I immediately purchase railcard on the spot, although the officer still submitted its Witness Statement, which now led to the penalty amount of £355.50.

I've explained this and that, and trying to contact everyone anywhere but the problem still persist. Is there any personal detail I can discuss this with?

I'm really frustrated as this amount of money really means much to me, man.

 

[_toommm_]

Hey man, similar incidents happened to me.

It's my first time travelling from Scotland to England, and I failed to provide the RailCard where I bought the ticket at its reduced price. However, I immediately purchase railcard on the spot, although the officer still submitted its Witness Statement, which now led to the penalty amount of £355.50.

I've explained this and that, and trying to contact everyone anywhere but the problem still persist. Is there any personal detail I can discuss this with?

I'm really frustrated as this amount of money really means much to me, man.

It's best to make a new thread as every case has its own nuances, and advice can get muddled up. Follow the advice from this to format your own thread:

Please read before posting in Disputes & Prosecutions

Guidance for those asking for advice: Please bear in mind the following, when asking for advice in this section: We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example: The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey The stations* where you changed...

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