Trams onto Oxford Road in Manchester

[py_megapixel]

Oxford Road does seem like it would be a perfect candidate for trams; it's a long, mostly fairly straight and wide road with plenty of demand for public transport, which is already mostly closed to private vehicles. But if such an extension were to be built, how would you suggest it would work?

Some particular questions:
Where would it connect to the main network? Is there space in St Peter's Square or would it have to be somewhere else?
Would it be financially viable given the number of buses already serving that route?
Where would the trams eventually terminate?

 

[HSTEd]

Once bus regulation comes along, the buses could be redirected to interconnect with the tram system, so financial viability is not a major concern.

As to connections, it is likely to require a 3CC to get the capacity to run enough vehicles down it in the first place.

Terminations at the south end is an interesting question, but myself I think something like joining the East Didsbury line that would then be extended to Stockport.

 

[LLivery]

Personally I'd prefer an Underground from the Airport following the A5103, Platt Lane, Oxford Road, through the City Centre, Bury New Road (A56), terminating at Prestwich.

But for a tram, I'd run from St Wergurgh's Road (no normal through service, but have a connection), then along the old alignment to Fallowfield. Then up the Oxford Road and along Portland Street, connecting at Piccadilly Gardens. Essentially it'd be a big loop. That would then allow additional trams from Rochdale or Bury without passing through St Peter's. I'd also divert Altrincham's to Piccadilly down it.

 

[Mollman]

Once bus regulation comes along, the buses could be redirected to interconnect with the tram system, so financial viability is not a major concern.

A lesson from Tyne & Wear was that passengers were unhappy when their bus was terminated at Gateshead and they were forced to catch the (then new) Metro into Newcastle.

 

[HSTEd]

A lesson from Tyne & Wear was that passengers were unhappy when their bus was terminated at Gateshead and they were forced to catch the (then new) Metro into Newcastle.

Yes, I was talking more about buses running pretty much entirely parallel to the route abstracting passengers directly from it.
Buses that continue to run will actually have to go places that the tram doesn't serve.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I'd prefer an Underground from the Airport following the A5103, Platt Lane, Oxford Road, through the City Centre, Bury New Road (A56), terminating at Prestwich.

But for a tram, I'd run from St Wergurgh's Road (no normal through service, but have a connection), then along the old alignment to Fallowfield. Then up the Oxford Road and along Portland Street, connecting at Piccadilly Gardens. Essentially it'd be a big loop. That would then allow additional trams from Rochdale or Bury without passing through St Peter's. I'd also divert Altrincham's to Piccadilly down it.

I'd just run it down to Parrs Wood (for bus connections e.g. via the 50 route) then the existing station at East Didsbury for interchange. Then close large sections of the Oxford/Wilmslow Road to all motorised traffic including buses - trams and bicycles only. Loading for businesses, where not accessible from side roads (many of them will be) would be at quiet times only, and no parking whatsoever at any time. Access permitted to residential properties where not viable another way but not parking on the road other than for loading in designated bays.

 

[Bevan Price]

An interesting idea, but I don't think that you could remove buses from Oxford Road and its continuation into Wilmslow Road, not without causing chaos.
1. Trams function best when the distance between stops is much greater than the typical distance between bus stops. So which stops do you omit when at least 75% of the bus stops can be quite busy at certain times of day during University term times.
2. The Oxford Road / Wilmslow Road corridor is infested with traffic lights. Average tram speeds would become just as bad as speeds through the city centre.
3. Even in 4 car formations, the current trams are much too small to cater for peak student loads. You would need something like 5 or 6-Artic formations, running about every 2 minutes - and that would be unaffordable.

 

[Chester1]

This topic has been brought up several times and the reason why it won't happen remains the same: the demand is too high. If a line was built down Oxford Road it would require almost the entire existing city centre capacity to serve the demand it would generate. It would be possible to splinter the southern end of the route and fill double trams on 5 x 5 services per hour. The buses provide a very high capacity and can serve a much wider number of destinations.

 

[Gareth]

Personally I'd prefer an Underground from the Airport following the A5103, Platt Lane, Oxford Road, through the City Centre, Bury New Road (A56), terminating at Prestwich.

That's pretty much what I'd do. Perhaps a mid-capacity system similar to what Copenhagen has. Liverpool could do with similar along the 10 bus route.

 

[HSTEd]

2. The Oxford Road / Wilmslow Road corridor is infested with traffic lights. Average tram speeds would become just as bad as speeds through the city centre.

Those speeds woudl still leave the bus in the dust.

The real problem on the corridor is taht loading and unloading an 80 passenger capacity vehicle through a single door is a tortuous process.

A proper access controlled BRT solution would help, but since we get a cut price solution we are stuck with literally half the journey time being spent with the doors open.
The bus sometimes struggles to beat walking pace.

3. Even in 4 car formations, the current trams are much too small to cater for peak student loads. You would need something like 5 or 6-Artic formations, running about every 2 minutes - and that would be unaffordable.

The obvious solution would be a turnback siding, probably at All Saints park, that allows long "crowdbuster" trams to run shuttles between there and Fallowfield.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even London style dual door operation with no cash fares would speed it up no end. I've said that for absolutely years.

A modern dual door double decker with contactless touch-in payment loads/unloads quicker than a Routemaster.

 

[Gareth]

Dual door buses are good. Why we're unique in the world, outside of London, on insisting on single door, is a mystery to me.

 

[HSTEd]

Dual door buses are good. Why we're unique in the world, outside of London, on insisting on single door, is a mystery to me.

The revenue control issues are considered to be intractable essentially.

Also, while I'm at it - the routes are simultaneously over and under bussed.
We have lots of lightly loaded subsidiary bus routes that just get in the way and clog everything up.

Once on the central bus corridor, perhaps every inbound bus should have its number changed to the standard route number for its destination.
All busest o Picadilly gardens should be numbered as 42 or 43 or 142 or 143.

Also abolish magicbus.

 

[Purple Orange]

An interesting idea, but I don't think that you could remove buses from Oxford Road and its continuation into Wilmslow Road, not without causing chaos.
1. Trams function best when the distance between stops is much greater than the typical distance between bus stops. So which stops do you omit when at least 75% of the bus stops can be quite busy at certain times of day during University term times.
2. The Oxford Road / Wilmslow Road corridor is infested with traffic lights. Average tram speeds would become just as bad as speeds through the city centre.
3. Even in 4 car formations, the current trams are much too small to cater for peak student loads. You would need something like 5 or 6-Artic formations, running about every 2 minutes - and that would be unaffordable.

Oxford Road itself down to the MRI is effectively a city centre road and I would have thought trams along the route would function just in the same way as they do along Cross Street etc.

 

[HSTEd]

My personal preference would be for a Copenhagen esque metro using standardised box stations and such, potentially using one of the less well developed routes north of Manchester as a northern branch. (Possibly the Atherton Line as far as Hindley).

But we won't get that, so I would settle for a proper BRT solution or a Tram.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It could I suppose be done reasonably well with bendy buses with open boarding. The demand levels are similar to London's Red Arrows.

 

[Mollman]

Also abolish magicbus.

But the theoretical point of Magicbus is to take students off the longer distance bus routes which use Oxford Road to access the city centre

 

[Bletchleyite]

But the theoretical point of Magicbus is to take students off the longer distance bus routes which use Oxford Road to access the city centre

I'm not sure what Magic Bus is for any more, and I'm not sure Stagey are, either. It started out to crush the competition, and now there's very little competition it still continues because it's profitable.

In a sense I guess it's now a first and second class service, as you get on buses in some other countries, e.g. Schnellbusse in Germany are chargeable at a premium.

 

[HSTEd]

But the theoretical point of Magicbus is to take students off the longer distance bus routes which use Oxford Road to access the city centre

Well it certainly doesn't work.

Since a huge portion of students have bus passes permitting travel on all Stagecoach operated buses anyway.
All it achieves is confusion.

And all buses stop all stops anyway....

 

[Thomas31]

Well it certainly doesn't work.

Since a huge portion of students have bus passes permitting travel on all Stagecoach operated buses anyway.
All it achieves is confusion.

And all buses stop all stops anyway....

To be fair, it does work. When visiting my sister in Rusholme I’ll avoid Magicbus as they always end up leaving Piccadilly Gardens full, whereas the ‘normal’ Stagecoach buses are always halfway empty, and if you’re lucky enough to get a 41, I often find I’m the only one on the bus.

 

[HSTEd]

To be fair, it does work. When visiting my sister in Rusholme I’ll avoid Magicbus as they always end up leaving Piccadilly Gardens full, whereas the ‘normal’ Stagecoach buses are always halfway empty, and if you’re lucky enough to get a 41, I often find I’m the only one on the bus.

The 41 bus goes from Sale to Middleton and isn't operated by Stagecoach, so noones bus pass works on it.

 

[Purple Orange]

Well it certainly doesn't work.

Since a huge portion of students have bus passes permitting travel on all Stagecoach operated buses anyway.
All it achieves is confusion.

And all buses stop all stops anyway....

It worked best when there was fUK North, R Boll**ks and FING-GER-LAND to catch for 50p.

 

[Thomas31]

The 41 bus goes from Sale to Middleton!

The 41 goes down the Oxford Road though, if there’s a 41 I’ll always get it instead of the Stagecoach services as it gets me into town far faster

 

[HSTEd]

The 41 goes down the Oxford Road though, if there’s a 41 I’ll always get it instead of the Stagecoach services as it gets me into town far faster

Noone uses it because everyone has a bus pass for Stagecoach so you don't have to wait half an hour for it to turn up, if you are lucky.

It is not a particularly useful service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It worked best when there was fUK North, R Boll**ks and FING-GER-LAND to catch for 50p.

You're not the only one who referred to them in that sort of derogatory fashion. We had "UK and S**te" (the only bus company that had drivers smoking dope on the job) and "B*****s bus", didn't have one for Finglands though!

 

[Thomas31]

Noone uses it because everyone has a bus pass for Stagecoach so you don't have to wait half an hour for it to turn up, if you are lucky.

It is not a particularly useful service.

To be fair I only use it because I have a ENCTS pass so you may have a point there

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair I only use it because I have a ENCTS pass so you may have a point there

There is a student System One pass and has been for years, but students mostly don't have them.

 

[HSTEd]

There is a student System One pass and has been for years, but students mostly don't have them.

Well even leaving aside I am too old to hold one.....
It's more than double the price of a Unirider settup, since they don't even offer an annual option.

 

[Worm]

But the theoretical point of Magicbus is to take students off the longer distance bus routes which use Oxford Road to access the city centre

I’ve been travelling down Oxford Road for four years now between Piccadilly and the MRI/Universities and this hasn’t worked because students who have a weekly ticket for all Stagecoach Manchester services will just get which ever service gets to the station first. The best for this being the 42, 43 and 111 as you might actually get a seat.

I quickly figured out that the 101 to Wythenshawe hospital was actually the fastest to MMU as it goes behind my building and other students didn’t use it.

It wouldn’t surprise me if it was actually quicker to jump on a train at Oxford Road to Piccadilly station and then walk to the gardens than it would be to get any of the buses.

 

[Amstel]

By far the majority of passengers along Oxford Road go to the Uni and MRI, so why not terminate a tram route at the hospital? Some of the trams into Manchester from the Deansgate side could go as far as St Peters Square and then go along Oxford Road without having to clog up the two city crossing routes. (PS in my day at he uni in the 1960s we always walked because we couldn't afford the bus fares, but nowadays the buses are full of students).