Tram fine help please

[Crystaluk2014]

Hi just your opinion on a standard fine charge
My friend whis an asylum seeker had to go manchester to get a card made which is her identity to stay inthis country. She got on at rochdale station and bought s ticket but made a mistake in entering the destination she put in clayton hall and needed to go near broadway inmanchester. So she got on and her ticket was checked at cornbrook station by the conducter inthe train and he didnt say anything. She got back after about two hours and on the way back at the same cornbrook station her ticket was checked and she was given the fine. I wrote to appeal that shes an asylumseeker and english us nit her first language and proof she bought her ticket but they declined the appeal. Any chance of taking this further?

 

[Clip]

So you want to appeal because she didnt have the right ticket for the journey made simply because she doesnt speak English?

 

[mikeg]

Unfortunately penalty/standard fares are a strict liability matter. It is the passenger's responsibility and nobody else's to make sure they have the correct ticket. The mistake of the conductor and your friend's poor English don't come into it I'm afraid. I realise it may seem a harsh penalty for an honest mistake, but that's the way it is. It sometimes has to be that way because otherwise others with poor English may 'try it on' - be they asylum seekers, economic migrants or tourists. Believe me, I've seen all manner of people try - including English people feigning a foreign accent!

 

[Agent_c]

In this case, you're friend is pretty much having to throw themself on the mercy of the Company...

 

[Crystaluk2014]

Thankyou so much for the replies. With her limited English like you said its an honest mistake and since her ticket was checked earlier she felt really disheartened. She gets all her travel expenses paid for she just needs to show her tickets so its not like she was trying to pull a fast one. I appreciate your time guys. But i from reading other posts the companys policy is quite frankly disgusting. Its like theres not a slight chance you can be forgiven for making a mistake even when you have proof. Is there nothing you guys csn do to change this? Get enough people together? Ive taken companies to small claims court for years. Faced plenty of solucitors simply because i dont want to put up with unfair companies. Ive won 94% of my cases this way. Please let me know if theres anything i csn do to help but thanks again

 

[island]

How much is she being asked to pay?

 

[bb21]

To be honest, I do find it very harsh given that the fares appear identical.

 

[Merseysider]

Metrolink are becoming increasingly focused on fare evasion/travel without the correct ticket. Although the fares are the same, there is no way of the inspector knowing if she's simply trying it on with a ticket she'd found on the floor, or was going to both Broadway & Clayton Hall.

I would suggest that if the appeal has been rejected, there is nothing else you can do. If you took this to a small claims court you'd be laughed out of the room because she was in the wrong, not Metrolink. Sorry it's not what you want to hear.

I would also suggest that in future, she should double check travel plans and tickets so there will be no repeat.

 

[Clip]

Thankyou so much for the replies. With her limited English like you said its an honest mistake and since her ticket was checked earlier she felt really disheartened. She gets all her travel expenses paid for she just needs to show her tickets so its not like she was trying to pull a fast one. I appreciate your time guys. But i from reading other posts the companys policy is quite frankly disgusting. Its like theres not a slight chance you can be forgiven for making a mistake even when you have proof. Is there nothing you guys csn do to change this? Get enough people together? Ive taken companies to small claims court for years. Faced plenty of solucitors simply because i dont want to put up with unfair companies. Ive won 94% of my cases this way. Please let me know if theres anything i csn do to help but thanks again

If you do go to court please let us know how your case went.

 

[DelayRepay]

How much is she being asked to pay?

Metrolink's Standard Fare is £100, with a 50% discount if paid within 14 days.

 

[185]

I'm not too sure on this. You would have to select 'B' for Broadway, then select Broadway from the list, so how she has selected 'C' for Clayton Hall, then selected that station - ie two presses, not one is a mystery to me. The two-word destination looks quite different in form, from the one word 'Broadway'.

I suspect as suggested above she may well have visited two destinations, and been caught off route in Cornbrook. Home Office reporting letters sent from UKVI Dallas Court clearly mention on the map page "nearest tram stop is Broadway" along with a map.

It would be advisable to make the payment asap or come to an arrangement to pay in instalments.

 

[thenorthern]

I agree with the other posters and to be honest I would pay the £50 fine, by using the network all passengers agree to the metrolink conditions of carriage and the small claims court can't overrule the fine as she has agreed to these terms and conditions by travelling on the metrolink. For not having a vaild ticket the following applies:

A passenger found to be on a Metrolink vehicle, or on a station platform having just alighted from a vehicle, without a ticket or pass or other approved authorisation to travel valid for his/her journey will be liable to pay a Standard Fare of £100 or such other amount as may be determined by Transport for Greater Manchester from time to time and may be liable to prosecution.

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/using-the-network/Pages/conditions-of-carriage.aspx

While I understand that having poor English skills does put at her as a disadvantage from what I understand TfGM won't consider it as mitigating circumstances as its an excuse that could by used by any passenger.

I am sorry as I am sure this isn't the news that you wanted to hear.

Just a warning though from what I have seen Metrolink are increasing ticket checks at the moment and so are some rail companies so be careful in the future.

 

[Crystaluk2014]

Ive never been ona tram so have no idea what she must have pressed or not. You see this is the annoying part. Fair enough it looks suspicious but if she was to get a letter from dallas court showing the time she got there and cane out would her appeal be allowed as she went straight there and back. I highly doubt it. Even backed with evidence it seems its pick and choose from other posts ive been reading if metrolink allow appeals. The fine will be paid by dallas court as her caseworker confirmed she cant afford to pay it.

 

[Llanigraham]

Ive never been ona tram so have no idea what she must have pressed or not. You see this is the annoying part. Fair enough it looks suspicious but if she was to get a letter from dallas court showing the time she got there and cane out would her appeal be allowed as she went straight there and back. I highly doubt it. Even backed with evidence it seems its pick and choose from other posts ive been reading if metrolink allow appeals. The fine will be paid by dallas court as her caseworker confirmed she cant afford to pay it.

I'm trying to work out what a Court in DALLAS has to do with UK tram?

 

[Merseysider]

I'm trying to work out what a Court in DALLAS has to do with UK tram?

A quick google search would have answered that...

 

[bb21]

Dallas Court is a Home Office Reporting Centre.

https://plus.google.com/108580309961512139892/about?gl=uk&hl=en

 

[DelayRepay]

. Even backed with evidence it seems its pick and choose from other posts ive been reading if metrolink allow appeals.

It's not pick and choose at all. The rules are simple - anyone who doesn't have a ticket for their journey has to pay the standard fare. I appreciate this is harsh but if passengers don't like Metrolink's rules, there are alternative transport modes available.

 

[Crystaluk2014]

It's not pick and choose at all. The rules are simple - anyone who doesn't have a ticket for their journey has to pay the standard fare. I appreciate this is harsh but if passengers don't like Metrolink's rules, there are alternative transport modes available.

Whats the point of the appeals process then a waste of everyones time? If thats the rules and no amount of excuses is going to change the rule they should scrap the appeals process

 

[185]

It's not pick and choose at all. The rules are simple - anyone who doesn't have a ticket for their journey has to pay the standard fare.

Agree, but only to some extent. Metrolink do overturn a small proportion, maybe 5-10% of £100 SF tickets, or issue them as (child) warning letters for first time offending young people.

Looking at this situation, given the circumstances I suspect the fine will probably be upheld - so probably worth paying it whilst it's still at £50 (14 days) to get it out of the way.

 

[Flamingo]

Agree, but only to some extent. Metrolink do overturn a small proportion, maybe 5-10% of £100 SF tickets, or issue them as (child) warning letters for first time offending young people.

Looking at this situation, given the circumstances I suspect the fine will probably be upheld - so probably worth paying it whilst it's still at £50 (14 days) to get it out of the way.

Rather than delaying it and costing the taxpayers £100...

 

[Hadders]

Whats the point of the appeals process then a waste of everyones time? If thats the rules and no amount of excuses is going to change the rule they should scrap the appeals process

The point of an appeals process is so that any deficiency in the process or procedure of issuing the penalty can be addressed.

I know it is harsh and it isn't what you want to hear but the only avenue open to you in this situation is to hope for discretion to be shown but Metrolink are under no obligation to allow this.

It is extremely easy to evade a fare on the tram and although checks do take place they can only ever check a very limited number of people. Consequently they need to send a harsh message out via the people who are caught without tickets. If it became known that discretion would often be shown to people caught without tickets then fare evasion would increase dramatically.

 

[Clip]

Whats the point of the appeals process then a waste of everyones time? If thats the rules and no amount of excuses is going to change the rule they should scrap the appeals process

But your appeal is based on them not speaking English - not that the SF was incorrectly issued.

They did not have the correct ticket for their journey therefore they were issued with teh SF.

 

[reb0118]

Rather than delaying it and costing the taxpayers £100...

I was thinking that too. :cry:

 

[thenorthern]

I checked the metrolink today and there is a sign on the door saying that passengers must have a ticket. As far as I am aware there are no requirements to provide that information in other languages.

Its important to note though that the Standard Fare isn't technically a penalty fare but rather a ticket issued by conductors to people who don't have one. The appeals process though is there for if the metrolink conductor has made a mistake which in this case they haven't.

 

[dcsprior]

Rather than delaying it and costing the taxpayers £100...

I was thinking that too. :cry:

Surely the £100 cost will be borne by the passenger (the OP's friend), not by taxpayers.

 

[najaB]

Surely the £100 cost will be borne by the passenger (the OP's friend), not by taxpayers.

Who, as an asylum seeker, is almost certainly supported by the State.

 

[dcsprior]

Who, as an asylum seeker, is almost certainly supported by the State.

But unless the amount they receive from the state will increase as a result of this "fine" then the cost is not being borne by the state but by the person who has to pay the £50 / £100 having to pay this from the amount they already receive - e.g. by having £50/£100 less available to spend on food, etc.

 

[Flamingo]

Surely the £100 cost will be borne by the passenger (the OP's friend), not by taxpayers.

Not according to the OP:

... The fine will be paid by dallas court as her caseworker confirmed she cant afford to pay it.