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Trainspotting rules at some stations
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Chester025
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My thing is though, if you are acting sensibly, why should the staff have to hassle you?
For the reasons above, there are genuine security and copyright concerns.
nedchester
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What genuine security concerns? Don't trot out the terrorism nonsense please. After all you could make that argument against every single passenger on the railways so that is just a smokescreen.
What copyright? Eh?
At the end of the day both NR and the TOCs have given enthusiasts permission to take photos on station. You don't have to ask any for PERMISSION. Inform them if you wish but don't ask for permission as you already have it.
I still cannot understand why this has become an issue although I suspect it's all about certain organisations trying to make rules that there don't need to be rules for.
Despite all that I have written above I think the situation is much better than it was a few years ago although there is still a small minority of jobsworths who get a kick out of throwing their weight around.
Because they're bored and want to feel powerful so lets pick on that lonely guy in the anarok at the end of the platform. Saying that some station staff are nice people you can have a laugh with.
As far as they know you could be taking photos are trains to have published in commercial media, by informing them what you are doing and that the photos are for personal use it clears any misunderstanding. I really don't know why people are finding it so difficult to tell the staff what they are doing.
As I said above, security concerns are not unreasonable, if you tried going to Heathrow to take photos you would soon be removed by security.
nedchester
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So taking photos of trains to be published in the media is a breach of copyright is it? You'd better tell Railway Magazine, Railways Illustrated etc cos they'll be getting some claims. Oh the other hand you might be talking rubbish.
You haven't explained what security concerns there are yet?
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
I think what Zoe means is that the TOCs charge for commercial filming etc. She didn't mention anything to do with copyright in that post!
As I said people have been removed from Heathrow due to plane spotting, they wouldn't do that if there were not genuine concerns.
nedchester
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She replied to my post (36) which mentioned specifically copyright.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Planes are a bigger target than trains...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ah right, didn't notice that. Apologies.
Sorry, my point was not so much about copyright (the train livires are copyright but that's a differet issue) but the fact that TOCs do charge for commercial photography and it is not unreasonable to inform them that you are not taking commercial photographs to remove any uncertainty about this.
wbbminerals
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I can't believe all the fuss about pictures of trains! The only time when there should be genuine concerns is if someone is taking pictures of security equipment, but to be honest if you were a terrorist doing recconaisance you would do it secretly.
People use terrorism to turn our country into a police state, we are constantly being spied on by cameras yet we can't use our own?
People use terrorism to turn our country into a police state, we are constantly being spied on by cameras yet we can't use our own?
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
They wouldn't need to do it secretly, they can just stand at the end of the platform!
wbbminerals
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I think security has its place but people should use their discretion wisely.
Also what can you see from the end of the platform of any security importance anyway?
Also what can you see from the end of the platform of any security importance anyway?
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moonrakerz
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Bit of confusion about copyright !
The copyright of a photograph - wherever it is taken - belongs to the photographer, with some exceptions (like taking them for your employer.)
If that photograph is taken, with permission, on "private property" the copyright still remains with the photographer - BUT, there may be restrictions as to where and how that photograph can be used.
I am compiling a calendar for a large UK charity, this will be sold to raise funds. All the photographs were taken by me and I own the copyright of them - this will be stated on the calendar. However, one of the photos was taken on private property, the owner of this property has said that I can use the photograph as long as I just make some acknowledgement. So this photograph will have "Photograph used by kind permission of The National Trust" beneath it.
A train livery may be copyright but that doesn't prevent anyone taking and using that photograph - especially if they take it from non rail company property - but it does stop them from painting their car in those colours though. :roll:
The copyright of a photograph - wherever it is taken - belongs to the photographer, with some exceptions (like taking them for your employer.)
If that photograph is taken, with permission, on "private property" the copyright still remains with the photographer - BUT, there may be restrictions as to where and how that photograph can be used.
I am compiling a calendar for a large UK charity, this will be sold to raise funds. All the photographs were taken by me and I own the copyright of them - this will be stated on the calendar. However, one of the photos was taken on private property, the owner of this property has said that I can use the photograph as long as I just make some acknowledgement. So this photograph will have "Photograph used by kind permission of The National Trust" beneath it.
A train livery may be copyright but that doesn't prevent anyone taking and using that photograph - especially if they take it from non rail company property - but it does stop them from painting their car in those colours though. :roll:
IanPooleTrains
Established Member
I like how my simple asking of a question has turned into a public forum debate on the rights of trainspotters with photography 
But i's all cool, we have got it all sorted out!
But i's all cool, we have got it all sorted out!
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I have a picture somewhere taken at an open day of a Reliant Robin in full VT livery...
I got told to move once when sitting in the tip-up seats in the front vestibule of a 158. Things like this or standing at the end of a platform do look suspicious to staff.
40fan
Member
It is unreasonable to inform the staff that you are not taking commercial photographs, there is no requirement to do so.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Just because there is no requirement to do so does not make it unreasonable.
For example, I am under no legal obligation to help anyone. I could walk past someone drowning in a pond and do nothing, and still be on the right side of the law. But would that be unreasonable? Damn right it would, and any respected member of society would call the emergency services and get help.
nedchester
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Bit of an extreme example that!
40fan
Member
The anti-photography people are always clutching at straws.
There is a huge difference in saving someone's life and telling a railway employee you are not a commercial photrographer. Commercial photographers, I would think always request permission, therefore if there are no commercial photographers on the station, it stands to reason there are only amater photographers there.
There is a huge difference in saving someone's life and telling a railway employee you are not a commercial photrographer. Commercial photographers, I would think always request permission, therefore if there are no commercial photographers on the station, it stands to reason there are only amater photographers there.
No one here is anti-photography.
Play by the rules just as you expect staff to and there won't be any problems will there.
Ralph's point maybe at the extreme end of the scale but his point is still valid.
I don't see what is SO unreasonable about any of this. If enthusiasts took the time to have a quick chat to staff and intergrate with the industry rather than isolating themselfs in their own little world, I'm sure they will find not all staff are evil bar stewards out to ruin their fun and will probably find alot of staff friendly and may well offer information on stuff that might be booked through.
Play by the rules just as you expect staff to and there won't be any problems will there.
Ralph's point maybe at the extreme end of the scale but his point is still valid.
I don't see what is SO unreasonable about any of this. If enthusiasts took the time to have a quick chat to staff and intergrate with the industry rather than isolating themselfs in their own little world, I'm sure they will find not all staff are evil bar stewards out to ruin their fun and will probably find alot of staff friendly and may well offer information on stuff that might be booked through.
But one that actually highlights whether we should in fact have a 'good samaritan' rule/law like France.
IanPooleTrains
Established Member
Now I can vouch for this point, this is a good point here
Me and my brothers go out from time to time and we sometimes go to Stafford and we know somewhere there who works with the VT staff and we chat about special stuff that goes through and if we ever have any questions on where anything is, we ask him and he will tell us whereabouts it is
It's the same story at Tamworth with a group of locals, one of the guys came up, let us know what was going and without that information, we wouldn't have known the 379 was coming through.
So GB does bring up a great point!
Minilad
Established Member
Absolutely what he said. I am always happy to chat to enthusiasts, after all I am one myself to a certain extent, but I often find they are reluctant to approach. I have often stopped at Tamworth and given the spotters on the platform info about something that might be following me. We are not all anti-enthusiast. Try talking to us you might be surprised !
moonrakerz
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As soon as I typed that ............I just knew...............and it HAD to be a Reliant Robin ..................
NSEFAN
Established Member
jonmorris0844 said:
Does the good samaritan rule extend to saving a drowning person? I always thought it was for breakdowns only!
As for signing in at a station, if you're intending to spend a good few hours there, then it's polite to at least tell members of staff what you're up to. If you're just passing through, then it shouldn't be a problem. If someone does ask, just say that you're catching a train soon and just wanted to get some pictures. That's what I try and do anyways!
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
As soon as I typed that ............I just knew...............and it HAD to be a Reliant Robin ..................
Will it cause any problems with VT if I find the picture and post it?!
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