Trainsplit offering more expensive/longer journey alternative options

[TUC]

I recognise that some people may be happy to trade off a longer journey time and/ore more changes of train in return for a lower fare. What has intrigued me several times when using Transplit recently is the number of options offered which involve both longer journey times and a more expensive ticket.

For example, I was searching to get from Brighouse to Oxford as close to before 0830 as possible. As expected, it offered the 0356 from Brighouse, changing in Manchester, arriving 0814, and this had the cheapest fare at £19.16 (with a senior railcard). However, it also offered five other options for the same departure and arrival time, but with various multiple additional change points, and all with more expensive Advance fares ranging up to £46.64. It also offered an alternative departure time of 0339 for an entirely different route and arriving at 0941 for £30.81.

In terms of completeness of information I have no problem with these being shown, but I don't recall so many options being shown in the past. Has something changed in the algorithm? Also, I'm trying to think whether there are circumstances where someone might want to make use of one of these longer, but more expensive, options?

 

[81A]

Also, I'm trying to think whether there are circumstances where someone might want to make use of one of these longer, but more expensive, options?

Admittedly fairly niche, but potentially to avoid a TOC/class of train (a relatively common example of this is CrossCountry, which some wish to minimise use of or avoid)?

 

[styles]

Admittedly fairly niche, but potentially to avoid a TOC/class of train (a relatively common example of this is CrossCountry, which some wish to minimise use of or avoid)?

Perhaps but in this specific example, the cheapest (by far) with fewest changes involves TransPennine Express and CrossCountry, with a change at Piccadilly. Each other option which departs+arrives at the same time, with more changes, for a higher price, also involve TPE+XC and a change at Manchester Piccadilly.

The only real advantage would be someone who wants to also get an Avanti service for a 1st class breakfast in the middle, or who really prefers more complex journeys to shave off 3 minutes of waiting at Piccadilly station

 

[HighlandStorm]

I've just came across this on the forum linked ticketing site - having been told by the ScotRail website that there is no trains between Tyndrum and Glasgow today or tomorrow !

With a Highland Railcard an off-peak or anytime open return is £19.55, ScotRail's new app is giving me sense on prices, but says no seat reservations today, which is replicated on train split and sets 'train rammed' klaxon off in my head! However, Train Split is selling a convoluted split for some trains that is nearly £7 more expensive than the anytime/off-peak railcard price.

 

[marshlinker]

Ember bus has good availability at 2/3rds of the price and a fraction of the emissions.

 

[MrJeeves]

However, it also offered five other options for the same departure and arrival time, but with various multiple additional change points, and all with more expensive Advance fares ranging up to £46.64. It also offered an alternative departure time of 0339 for an entirely different route and arriving at 0941 for £30.81.

The site will offer itineraries which present the cheapest fixed, cheapest flexible, cheapest fixed 1st and cheapest flexible 1st journey opportunities. It's quite likely that each of the other options presented some value benefit on one of these axes.

If you had a direct train arriving 4pm for £20, a journey with one change arriving 5pm for £15 and a journey with two changes arriving 6pm for £10, it's possible that all of these would be offered to a customer as they all represent different trade-offs in terms of pricing vs speed. You can then multiply this across the 4 different fare options listed above to see the large number of combinations that could be possible with how advance quotas are set up.

The same also applies if the first journey above was £10 in std and £50, and the third journey was £15 in std and £40 in first. The std price which most are interested would make it look like a silly option to pick, but if you're looking at travelling in 1st while being price conscious, the longer journey might make sense.

I did dig up your search results, and see that many of the itineraries were cheaper than the faster one on, for example, 1st class flexible.

We are trialling some work on our Android app to help improve the results we show, by dynamically hiding slower journeys that present no value improvement over faster ones based on the current filters selected by a user, which reduces the overwhelming number of options you see for some journeys.

I did load your results into our Android app using a debug option to visualise the amount of results which are removed ("trimmed"), and by default the vast majority of the journeys would have been hidden when you were only looking for the cheapest tickets to make the journey. I've attached an example. Some of those will be "untrimmed" and re-appear if you were to filter to first class tickets, or flexible tickets, or if you were to hide split tickets.

 

[TUC]

The site will offer itineraries which present the cheapest fixed, cheapest flexible, cheapest fixed 1st and cheapest flexible 1st journey opportunities. It's quite likely that each of the other options presented some value benefit on one of these axes.

If you had a direct train arriving 4pm for £20, a journey with one change arriving 5pm for £15 and a journey with two changes arriving 6pm for £10, it's possible that all of these would be offered to a customer as they all represent different trade-offs in terms of pricing vs speed. You can then multiply this across the 4 different fare options listed above to see the large number of combinations that could be possible with how advance quotas are set up.

I did dig up your search results, and see that many of the itineraries were cheaper than the faster one on, for example, 1st class flexible.

We are trialling some work on our Android app to help improve the results we show, by dynamically hiding slower journeys that present no value improvement over faster ones based on the current filters selected by a user, which reduces the overwhelming number of options you see for some journeys.

I did load your results into our Android app using a debug option to visualise the amount of results which are removed ("trimmed"), and by default the vast majority of the journeys would have been hidden when you were only looking for the cheapest tickets to make the journey. I've attached an example. Some of those will be "untrimmed" and re-appear if you were to filter to first class tickets, or flexible tickets, or if you were to hide split tickets.

Thanks. To be clear, I just did a standard search from the app. I did not filter or adjust it to skew the results

 

[MrJeeves]

Thanks. To be clear, I just did a standard search from the app. I did not filter or adjust it to skew the results

Only the Android app has this feature at the moment; not iOS.

 

[walkingsophie]

I did load your results into our Android app using a debug option to visualise the amount of results which are removed ("trimmed"), and by default the vast majority of the journeys would have been hidden when you were only looking for the cheapest tickets to make the journey. I've attached an example. Some of those will be "untrimmed" and re-appear if you were to filter to first class tickets, or flexible tickets, or if you were to hide split tickets.

Huh, I am surprised that the cheapest option is trimmed

 

[MrJeeves]

Huh, I am surprised that the cheapest option is trimmed

There are two "cheapest" at the same price. The second departs at the same time as the first but arrives over two hours later(!) than the first "cheapest".

It makes no sense for someone to delay themselves for 2 hours for no financial benefit.

 

[HighlandStorm]

Ember bus has good availability at 2/3rds of the price and a fraction of the emissions.

Not cheaper than with a Highland Railcard. Need to be in Glasgow early AM, cheap hotels tonight, but had no desire to deal with Loch Lomondside on a bank holiday Monday either driving or in a coach! Drove to Croy and 10mins on the E&G and in the city centre. The ScotRail app managed to cope with that!

 

[yorkie]

I recognise that some people may be happy to trade off a longer journey time and/ore more changes of train in return for a lower fare. What has intrigued me several times when using Transplit recently is the number of options offered which involve both longer journey times and a more expensive ticket.

For example, I was searching to get from Brighouse to Oxford as close to before 0830 as possible. As expected, it offered the 0356 from Brighouse, changing in Manchester, arriving 0814, and this had the cheapest fare at £19.16 (with a senior railcard). However, it also offered five other options for the same departure and arrival time, but with various multiple additional change points, and all with more expensive Advance fares ranging up to £46.64. It also offered an alternative departure time of 0339 for an entirely different route and arriving at 0941 for £30.81.

In terms of completeness of information I have no problem with these being shown, but I don't recall so many options being shown in the past. Has something changed in the algorithm? Also, I'm trying to think whether there are circumstances where someone might want to make use of one of these longer, but more expensive, options?

Can you provide a search link, please?

 

[greaterangrier]

I would greatly appreciate some sort of function to "show all itineraries" or something like that because a fair few times I've been looking at a fare which is far cheaper (but I assume a little slower) via one particular route and shows on desktop only, not mobile.

P.S. thank you Trainsplit team for the excellent mobile booking interface plus the maps especially! very helpful

 

[TUC]

Can you provide a search link, please?

Results | TrainSplit

TrainSplit compares routes & fares to get cheap train tickets for your next journey through split ticketing with no booking fee & saving up to 90%

trainsplit.com

 

[yorkie]

Results | TrainSplit

TrainSplit compares routes & fares to get cheap train tickets for your next journey through split ticketing with no booking fee & saving up to 90%

trainsplit.com

Thanks; that's much easier.

The reason is because the 1st walk-up fares are cheaper for those other itineraries. However, the differences are relatively small, and so most people who are wanting such fares wouldn't be interested in such savings in this particular case. Other scenarios may vary.

If I recall correctly, I understand some work may be due to be done to reduce such options in future.

(For anyone reading this who is able to look at diagnostics, the next page URL provides the guid = 800939bb-d0b0-8f4e-8694-09f380701ecf )