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Trains that never get to top speed
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MCR247
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No, but the question was about full classes, not well 170s on xxx route.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Trying to go TOC by TOC North - South - sorry if some have been duplicated
Scotrail - 334's? Do they work on any 100mph capable lines?
Northern - All (even the 158's run at 90mph occasionally)
EMT - HST's never get 125mph from my knowledge (unless on the end up on the Scarborough service)
London Midland - Not sure if the 170's ever see 100mph?
WSRC - The 67's
East Coast - 91's
Virgin - 390's
NXEA - All at top speed
C2C - None
London Overground - No unit hits design speed?
Chiltern - All (now)
Great Western - All
South Western - Do they have 100mph clear line or is it just 90?
Southern - No sure if that is just 90 and not 100 for Electro stars
South Eastern - As above
Thameslink - I am sure the none stop Lutons hit 100mph
Cross-Country - All units hit top speed.
Quite a few really
Scotrail - 334's? Do they work on any 100mph capable lines?
Northern - All (even the 158's run at 90mph occasionally)
EMT - HST's never get 125mph from my knowledge (unless on the end up on the Scarborough service)
London Midland - Not sure if the 170's ever see 100mph?
WSRC - The 67's
East Coast - 91's
Virgin - 390's
NXEA - All at top speed
C2C - None
London Overground - No unit hits design speed?
Chiltern - All (now)
Great Western - All
South Western - Do they have 100mph clear line or is it just 90?
Southern - No sure if that is just 90 and not 100 for Electro stars
South Eastern - As above
Thameslink - I am sure the none stop Lutons hit 100mph
Cross-Country - All units hit top speed.
Quite a few really
They end up on the fast lines on MML quite often.
Yeah, I usually travel on the fasts with them and we usually struggle to overtake the 70MPH cars on the M1. Mind you, as Failed Unit said, the Luton fasts speed through St Albans at quite a speed, I guess if the limit is 105 there or so they'd go at 100.
asylumxl
Established Member
Erm... I've used it almost daily for most of my life. Can't say the 319s have problems overtaking cars on the M1. You'll find the cars they aren't overtaking on the M1 are speeding.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
75-85mph overtakes cars on Motorways so doesn't prove that they travel at 100mph.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The 180s don't go over 100mph.
ATW aren't on your list. I think any unit that runs the Crewe-Chester (57,150,153,158,175) can hit top speed, albeit not for long. 121's don't hit top speed, not sure about their 142s and 143s.
I'd love to see Pendolinos allowed nearer to their top speed, is there any future plan to allow this? Surely there are some sections of WCML that could allow it?
Just supposing ECML had been upgraded too & that 390s also ran on it - would they be allowed faster running, seeing as how there's less suburban traffic on it compared to WCML?
Just supposing ECML had been upgraded too & that 390s also ran on it - would they be allowed faster running, seeing as how there's less suburban traffic on it compared to WCML?
Failed Unit
Established Member
Pedentic head on - yes they do
Quote guilt as charged, not sure about the 57's but every other unit ATW hits the top speed on normal service.
TPE was also forgotten about - we need less TOC's
northwichcat
Veteran Member
That's amazing if the 121s can hit 70mph on a 4 minute journey.
Failed Unit
Established Member
In short no. The maximum speed on UK railways is 125mph because that is the top speed at which it is possible to read and obey line side signalling for the driver. Anything faster would require in-cab signalling which would be very expensive to install for only a speed boost of maybe 10-15mph.
There were experiments in the early 90s with 91's+Mk4s for 140mph running using a flashing green aspect to allow for the higher speed, but it was never adopted. Virgin also wanted to allow faster running on some sections of the WCML but were not allowed because of the lack of in-cab signalling.
I don't use TL enough to know, but I've been on services where a 319 has clearly reached 100mph and is flying along - just like a 317 can on the ECML, especially if making up time and put out onto the fast.
Perhaps due to the stopping pattern or the timings of other services, not all of the TL trains CAN get to 100mph - but there are certainly a few services on the GN where FCC trains are given a completely free run on the fasts - and easily get to (and top, slightly) 100mph. I'd imagine the fasts to Cambridge do the same.
The 1934 KGX to LET service is one good example for me, given the fact I am in the 'inner-suburban' area, which usually means more stops and being stuck on the slow line with a 75mph limit.
It gets to Hatfield in just 19 minutes (on the timetable) but will often arrive even earlier than that, and have to wait a minute or two before proceeding.
Perhaps due to the stopping pattern or the timings of other services, not all of the TL trains CAN get to 100mph - but there are certainly a few services on the GN where FCC trains are given a completely free run on the fasts - and easily get to (and top, slightly) 100mph. I'd imagine the fasts to Cambridge do the same.
The 1934 KGX to LET service is one good example for me, given the fact I am in the 'inner-suburban' area, which usually means more stops and being stuck on the slow line with a 75mph limit.
It gets to Hatfield in just 19 minutes (on the timetable) but will often arrive even earlier than that, and have to wait a minute or two before proceeding.
Cheers. I can see you'd need a dedicated route like HS1 or HS2, just thought I'd ask about ECML as it seems a lot more 'open' compared to WCML.
MCR247
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You don't need a dedicated route, just in cab signalling, and then an upgrade for track etc
True but what about going through stations? A lot of our network, especially the stations, are antiquated. If you stand on Crewe & imagine 390s zooming through all the pillars at top whack, well it makes me shudder to think it! Kind of makes me think of Formula 1 at Monte Carlo, if that makes any sense 
After cab signalling & track upgrades, would there be a necessity to modernise stations with old wooden & glass roofing for example, or would that not matter so much? lol it's difficult to think of our railway in high speed terms (I mean beyond 125mph) without having long dedicated routes like in France!
Also I take it that track modernising for proper high speed means removing unnecessary points & such like, maintaining a route with less slow down sections?
After cab signalling & track upgrades, would there be a necessity to modernise stations with old wooden & glass roofing for example, or would that not matter so much? lol it's difficult to think of our railway in high speed terms (I mean beyond 125mph) without having long dedicated routes like in France!
Also I take it that track modernising for proper high speed means removing unnecessary points & such like, maintaining a route with less slow down sections?
I'm guessing the VOP's at Chart Leacon never get to 90 mph anymore - but perhaps I shouldn't post that since they never leave the depot - but then again they are the full class operating on the national network nowadays
Drsatan
Established Member
Am I correct in saying that the 444s are capable of reaching 100mph, but are restricted to 90mph due to the limitations of the third rail?
Definitely! I've timed them doing 35 second miles several times.
Just had a thought there. I saw a 334 at Carstairs around half 7 in the morning. I am not sure which route they take or whether it would give them an opportunity to reach 100mph.
CarterUSM
Established Member
Linespeed is 100 mph from a point past Carstairs to Carluke, that's down, can't mind for sure but i think the up is the same or 95 at least. I'll double check my sectional appendix sometime
Voyager 2093
Member
Technically all trains will do their top speed when doing post delivery tests so I think the aim of this topic is to see what trains do not do their top speed whilst in regular service.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Correct
The 180s with Northern are being criticised for not reaching their top speed, but as we've seen on this thread, a lot of TOCs have trains that are never required to reach their top speed
This thread has given me some new opinions about 140/ 150/ 200 mph running, since it's highlighted all the units/ lines that never get anywhere near 100mph. We need to walk before we can run
That is a very good point. With all the 100 mph stock on Southeastern and Southern, there really needs to be a effort to get many of the major running lines up to 100 mph. The South Eastern Main Line is really the only place where Electrostars can hit full speed (thanks to Eurostar). With the 6-JAVs, parts of the Chatham Main Line should reach 100 east of Ebbsfleet as well, but the Brighton Line is still tied firmly at 90, and many other routes are more like 70. There really ought to be a general speed-up down south, where lots of people live, sooner or later.
thefab444
Established Member
The official top speed of a 442 is 100mph, but they were known to do in the region of 110mph on downhill sections of the SWML!
444s were originally limited to 85mph, can't quite remember why but it enabled them to be introduced sooner, but were, as Pumbaa says, lifted to 100mph ages ago. They're still downrated though.
tbtc
Veteran Member
That's it
We can't do "medium speed" on a lot of routes, so worrying about "high speed" is a bit pointless
In my mind there's more to be gained by upgrading routes by ten miles an hour, getting 100moh on more routes, that kind of thing. This thread shows how wasted a lot of units are, never getting to use their full potential
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