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I've never read a good explanation on why the Tonbridge trains at Redhill (normally 4 car) stop right before the buffers rather than once they have passed the signal
They are actually 100% booked as 3 car units. It is ridiculous. The subway and exit is at the far South end of the platform but yet the 3 car train always stops at the far North end of the platform. It is a very long 12 coach platform. So all passengers have to walk the entire length of a 12 coach platform to exit the station or to cross to another platform to change trains.
I guess the reason is the long stands (normally c.25 minutes in every hour) that these have at Redhill, during which Platform 1b (the south end) is available for use by GWRs coming and going while the Tonbridge sits way up the line at 1a. Even so they could, surely, draw up at an 8-car stop and still leave room for a GWR 3-car.
But it makes no sense at all when there is a tight turn-round, which happens more in the peaks. It makes even less sense when the arrangements at Tonbridge are far more sensible - the platform staff give a manual signal to the driver where to draw up. This used to happen at Redhill too, many years ago, but is now not permitted for some reason.
For me it is just another symptom of the disaster (for passengers) that is platform 0 at Redhill, but that has been discussed at length elsewhere so I'll pipe down now.
Not sure whether Bournemouth’s platform 4 counts, given it is a continuation of platform 3. Some 5-car SWR services stop there to allow a subsequent XC Voyager to terminate on platform 3 - I had quite the shock the first time I used one of these, and we sailed right through the main station and under the dual carriageway! Needless to say it’s a very long walk to the exit.
At Oxford, some years ago now, a new manager introduced a policy of Down (northbound) trains stopping at the far north end of Platform 2 (now Platform 4). This was advertised to passengers, the reason being to reduce delays by allowing a second train to enter the platform before the first, if both were short trains. I experienced this a few times, and most inconvenient it was too, but the policy now appears to have been abandoned.
This happens at Gloucester too - the Weymouth 165/166 stops way down at the far end of platform 2, what feels like a good mile away from the main station entrance. I believe this is so trains can cross the points in front of it to access platform 1, but it's no less frustrating traipsing along miles of empty platform to get to your tiny train idling on the horizon, in an otherwise empty station. Gwrrrr
Stevenage is something of a mess. On the up side, 8/700 stops right at the south end of the platform (same stopping mark as for 12/700), which is a right pain as it puts the very back of the train level with the staircase. This never used to be the case, but was changed around 2020 as a mitigation against stopping short.
Yet 8/387 and now 8/379 have their own stopping mark which is more sensibly placed.
There is a long history preceding this on on the GN going back to FCC days.
The first places I recall it being done were on the down road at Hatfield and Knebworth. In both cases there was a mixture of train lengths, driver only self despatch, and platforms not on the driver's side.
At stations with signals at the platform ends, there are signal sighting issues because the driver sits in the middle of a class 700 but to one side in a class 379 or class 387.
Often i have a tight connection there, so try and ensure I'm at the rear of the train. You can then get caught in the drunken scrimmage of loads of people trying to get on, as I was on Saturday evening.
I've never read a good explanation on why the Tonbridge trains at Redhill (normally 4 car) stop right before the buffers rather than once they have passed the signal
They are actually 100% booked as 3 car units. It is ridiculous. The subway and exit is at the far South end of the platform but yet the 3 car train always stops at the far North end of the platform. It is a very long 12 coach platform. So all passengers have to walk the entire length of a 12 coach platform to exit the station or to cross to another platform to change trains.
Platform 1 is only a 9-coach platform - length was reduced in rebuilding to fit platform zero in, due to need to put points in original platform length.
Also happens at Highgate on the London Underground - the platform is much longer than the trains, but the trains stop at the end of the platform rather than stopping the middle of the train by the exit. I wonder how much this inefficiency has cost over the years - must be the equivalent of a few lifetimes.
(Really need someone to look at the number of passengers per year / additional time walked on average / number of years this has been occurring!)
I suspect there is also a matter of how much it adds to dwell times (at intermediate stations) having to wait for passengers to traipse up the platform from where they wait to where the train stops - bearing in mind that this will also add to crowding around the nearest doors
Speculating, but the first train might need to draw up to the stops in order to clear a particular track circuit before the signalling will allow a second train to be brought in behind.
Stevenage is something of a mess. On the up side, 8/700 stops right at the south end of the platform (same stopping mark as for 12/700), which is a right pain as it puts the very back of the train level with the staircase. This never used to be the case, but was changed around 2020 as a mitigation against stopping short.
Yet 8/387 and now 8/379 have their own stopping mark which is more sensibly placed.
I'm pretty certain that when they were introduced the Azumas had different stopping points, depending on whether they were 9/10-car or 5 car. I can't comment on the operational side of things but it was much more passenger friendly. As mentioned above there is now the situation where the 5-car trains stop at the far end of the platform, where there is no cover from the elements which means people end up running. Of course we now have 5-car Azumas stopping in different positions to 5-car Lumo trains for added passenger confusion....
The 700 stopping boards is also interesting. There were separate boards for 8-car and 12-cars when first introduced, which again was much more passenger friendly and helped to spread loads throughout the train rather than concentrate it in the rear couple of cars if an 8-car turns up. A couple of years ago the 8-car stopping board was removed and all 700s now stop at the 12-car board. Again, as mentioned above, 8-car 387s (and 365s before them) stop at a much more passenger friendly stopping position, which is different from the 12-car position.
It's not a platform camera or monitor thing at Stevenage because there aren't any, so I really don't know why it is.
Southbound 5-car LNER services stop at the far south end of Platform 1 at Northallerton, and the platform entrance is right next to the north end of the platform, so you're looking at around a 150m walk to get on the train. I have actually seen someone miss their train because of this before (no doubt someone will say they shouldn't have turned up 2 minutes before it was due). TPE trains - usually 2x185 these days, but the 802s were the same when they stopped there - don't do this.
I'm pretty certain that when they were introduced the Azumas had different stopping points, depending on whether they were 9/10-car or 5 car. I can't comment on the operational side of things but it was much more passenger friendly. As mentioned above there is now the situation where the 5-car trains stop at the far end of the platform, where there is no cover from the elements which means people end up running. Of course we now have 5-car Azumas stopping in different positions to 5-car Lumo trains for added passenger confusion....
The 700 stopping boards is also interesting. There were separate boards for 8-car and 12-cars when first introduced, which again was much more passenger friendly and helped to spread loads throughout the train rather than concentrate it in the rear couple of cars if an 8-car turns up. A couple of years ago the 8-car stopping board was removed and all 700s now stop at the 12-car board. Again, as mentioned above, 8-car 387s (and 365s before them) stop at a much more passenger friendly stopping position, which is different from the 12-car position.
It's not a platform camera or monitor thing at Stevenage because there aren't any, so I really don't know why it is.
In the case of Stevenage for the 700s it is a mitigation against stopping short. Presumably the similarity between 8-car and 12-car trains made it deemed risky to have different positions, with the consequence of a “stop short” being amplified as the doors would be opened with fast lines alongside.
It’s a nuisance though, really there should be an engineered system to deal with all this. Stevenage platform 1 is a real nuisance with the 700/0s stopping south of the access stairs.
In the case of Stevenage for the 700s it is a mitigation against stopping short. Presumably the similarity between 8-car and 12-car trains made it deemed risky to have different positions, with the consequence of a “stop short” being amplified as the doors would be opened with fast lines alongside.
It’s a nuisance though, really there should be an engineered system to deal with all this. Stevenage platform 1 is a real nuisance with the 700/0s stopping south of the access stairs.
I was given this as excuse by SWR as well, but there was no similraity between the 8 car (class 455 or occasional 450) and 10 car (class 707 and 458/5) trains running at the time. There were also 455/456 combos but since the 456 was invariably at the leading end at the station in question it should again have been obvious to the driver what he/she was driving and therefore where to stop. And if a mistake was made - well, i thought that was the point of the "ceremony of the doors", for the guard to check the train had stopped in the right place.
It is not just an inconvemience to passengers, who have to walk further - and get wet beacuse most of the train isn't under the canopy. There is a safety issue - with a narrow part of the platform between the tail of the train and the exit, a crowd forms trying to reach the exit, (with people trying to catch the train trying to get past to add to the jostling) - next to a four foot drop onto the track. And visually impaired people hear the train come in but can't find it as it has gone right past the entrance to the platform
The one I bang on about is at Redhill's Platform 0; GWR's 2 and 3 car trains don't have their own stop board, so they go up beyond the canopy to the 5 car stop, meaning passengers get wet and have a needless walk to the already-long interchange.
It's just pure mismanagement and lack of proper passenger consideration.
For those new to the issue, the signalling does not prevent the trains stopping by the entrance, etc. There is no operational reason why this happens except poor design/thinking and a lack of interest afterwards in putting in a simple single stop board.
I was told it couldn't be done because the design team had been disbanded - so, based on that argument, presumably nothing can ever be changed at Redhill again! The railway at its worst...
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They are actually 100% booked as 3 car units. It is ridiculous. The subway and exit is at the far South end of the platform but yet the 3 car train always stops at the far North end of the platform. It is a very long 12 coach platform. So all passengers have to walk the entire length of a 12 coach platform to exit the station or to cross to another platform to change trains.
In the case of Stevenage for the 700s it is a mitigation against stopping short. Presumably the similarity between 8-car and 12-car trains made it deemed risky to have different positions, with the consequence of a “stop short” being amplified as the doors would be opened with fast lines alongside.
It’s a nuisance though, really there should be an engineered system to deal with all this. Stevenage platform 1 is a real nuisance with the 700/0s stopping south of the access stairs.
It's yet another symptom of personal responsibility being taken away from the people (drivers) who are supposed to be responsible enough to make simple decisions.
The passengers are those who keep on coming last in these scenarios.
Exactly the same for GWR North Downs trains reversing at Redhill too. Since they're departing again straight away there's no possibility of another train coming in behind them, so there's no obvious reason why they go right to the north end.
It's particularly annoying in wet weather as even the newly built platform 0 only has a roof at the southern end. The trains stop well beyond the end of it.
This screenshot from Google maps shows the situation clearly. The subway is right down next to the Station Road underbridge, yet the (Tonbridge?) train is right at the north end, and well beyond the roof.
Trains stop at the far end of platform 1 at Ipswich, out in the open rather than under the canopy by the buffers. This is due to the OHLE ending short, and the Bi-mode class 755s are supposed to have their pans up while stabled. The old sprinter/turbo units used to run up to the buffers and stack in platform 1, which is unfortunately not possible anymore.
And also Partick going Eastbound. Although at least they've put markings on the platforms at Partick to advise people to move along if the train only has 3 carriages.
Ashford platforms 1&2 do this - the 8 and 12 car stops are in the same place so four cars come up from Dover, go right up the end, then another four come in from Canterbury to connect up and the whole train is then still further up the platform from the entrance, with another four car length unoccupied. At least the whole area is covered, I suppose, accentuate the positive.
At Nottingham short length trains often stop right at the far end of the platforms, as far away from the exit as possible. Same at Sheffield in the evenings with Northern terminators, although the platforms aren't as long there and the exit is mid platform.
At Nottingham I assume it is to make the walk for the staff taking the train to the depot shorter which is very passenger unfriendly especially with the shutting of the tram bridge and associated station exits to passengers.
At Nottingham I assume it is to make the walk for the staff taking the train to the depot shorter which is very passenger unfriendly especially with the shutting of the tram bridge and associated station exits to passengers.
Nothing at all to do with that. The drivers who take the trains to the depot are based in a mess room in the old signalbox on platform 5 and have to walk up to the bridge and back down again (the old barrow crossing is strictly out of use to anyone except Network Rail maintenance staff, including all EMR staff). It's to allow multiple trains to arrive from the west if need be. It annoys the staff as much as the passengers.
I'm pretty certain that when they were introduced the Azumas had different stopping points, depending on whether they were 9/10-car or 5 car. I can't comment on the operational side of things but it was much more passenger friendly. As mentioned above there is now the situation where the 5-car trains stop at the far end of the platform, where there is no cover from the elements which means people end up running. Of course we now have 5-car Azumas stopping in different positions to 5-car Lumo trains for added passenger confusion....
The 700 stopping boards is also interesting. There were separate boards for 8-car and 12-cars when first introduced, which again was much more passenger friendly and helped to spread loads throughout the train rather than concentrate it in the rear couple of cars if an 8-car turns up. A couple of years ago the 8-car stopping board was removed and all 700s now stop at the 12-car board. Again, as mentioned above, 8-car 387s (and 365s before them) stop at a much more passenger friendly stopping position, which is different from the 12-car position.
It's not a platform camera or monitor thing at Stevenage because there aren't any, so I really don't know why it is.
387/379 boards at SVG cannot be moved due to wheelchair ramps being obstructed by platform buildings/furniture if they go right down to the ends like the 700s.
387/379 boards at SVG cannot be moved due to wheelchair ramps being obstructed by platform buildings/furniture if they go right down to the ends like the 700s.
I’m glad to hear that’s considered, it can be so frustrating when it doesn’t line up well for ramp access although I know there are more critical factors in deciding where to place stop boards.
Homerton westbound on the Mildmay line being one example, the door for the wheelchair space goes just past the wider section of platform by the shelter and instead stops a meter or two further forward on an awkwardly narrow bit of platform.
Passengers on the London bound platform at Bicester North have a long walk as short formed trains like three and four car units stop at the far end opposite the car park, so if you've parked your car there it's a long walk as no access to station until the ticket office. Ok for a fit person but tiring if you're not, using the lifts helps to break up walking.
Best to catch a loco hauled service as can board opposite the footbridge steps.
Bristol TM is also a place where trains stop at the far (West) end of platforms but here it is common practice to have another train come in behind it which will arrive, change direction and go out the same way. However I can see no need for a short train to go right to the end of the platform when there is still plenty of room to stop further back on the platform.
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It baffles me why passengers don't get their MP to play merry hell with the operator to get these silly stopping places changed where there is no reason for them to be where they are.
Also happens at Highgate on the London Underground - the platform is much longer than the trains, but the trains stop at the end of the platform rather than stopping the middle of the train by the exit. I wonder how much this inefficiency has cost over the years - must be the equivalent of a few lifetimes.
(Really need someone to look at the number of passengers per year / additional time walked on average / number of years this has been occurring!)
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