Trains Stopping away from Platform Entrances

[DynamicSpirit]

Does anyone know why in so many stations, trains often stop away from the main platform entrances? As a passenger it seems like a very reasonable expectation that trains will stop so that at least one carriage is by the point where you come onto the platform, and it seems incomprehensible and very inconsiderate when they don't. From what I've seen, that problem often leads to people being caught out and having to run up the platform after the train has arrived. Indeed, on one or two occasions I myself have actually missed trains that I would have caught if they'd stopped by the platform entrance.

From my own experience, mainly commuting, it seems to be mainly a problem at stations where the main entrance is right at one end of the platform but where trains stop some way further up - in some cases considerably further up - the platform.

Examples on my own commute:
Abbey Wood - anything less than 10 carriages heading to London
Woolwich Arsenal - anything less than 8 carriages heading towards Dartford
Lewisham - going towards Blackheath
London Bridge - Platform 1

I'm guessing that in some cases the reason may be to do with placement of mirrors etc. for the driver to look along the platform, but if so, presumably the solution would be almost trivially inexpensive? Would be interested to hear from those more informed what the reason actually is.

 

[telstarbox]

Some stations (eg between Orpington and London Bridge) have CCTV monitors rather than mirrors - there is only one set of monitors so the driver has to stop at the same place.

At other stations, the driver can only see the signal or the RA indicator from a certain point on the platform.

 

[tsr]

Sometimes, a train may divide and some coaches for one of the destinations may be left some considerable way down the platform. A simpler explanation is that the platform is actually divided into one, two or perhaps more sections/berths (e.g. Platforms 1a, 1b and 1c). This would mean that the platform can hold two trains which terminate and then head in opposite directions, or one train can stable in the platform whilst another terminates and later reverses out.

Another reason is that the platform may be curved in one area, so the stop boards for shorter trains may be placed towards a straight section of the platform, in order to assist with sightlines on dispatch of these shorter trains. This may lead to the exit being relatively far from the train.

I completely agree that the positioning of stop boards can be a big nuisance.

 

[pendolino]

Does anyone know why in so many stations, trains often stop away from the main platform entrances? As a passenger it seems like a very reasonable expectation that trains will stop so that at least one carriage is by the point where you come onto the platform, and it seems incomprehensible and very inconsiderate when they don't. From what I've seen, that problem often leads to people being caught out and having to run up the platform after the train has arrived. Indeed, on one or two occasions I myself have actually missed trains that I would have caught if they'd stopped by the platform entrance.

From my own experience, mainly commuting, it seems to be mainly a problem at stations where the main entrance is right at one end of the platform but where trains stop some way further up - in some cases considerably further up - the platform.

Examples on my own commute:
Abbey Wood - anything less than 10 carriages heading to London
Woolwich Arsenal - anything less than 8 carriages heading towards Dartford
Lewisham - going towards Blackheath
London Bridge - Platform 1

I'm guessing that in some cases the reason may be to do with placement of mirrors etc. for the driver to look along the platform, but if so, presumably the solution would be almost trivially inexpensive? Would be interested to hear from those more informed what the reason actually is.

It is to do with DOO monitors and mirrors and the expense of installing for every possible formation length, but also a limit to the number of stop marks helps prevent stop shorts. Certainly where I drive there has been a move to reduce/consolidate stop marks as at some stations there were a stupid number, many quite close together.

If it was down to drivers, a lot of them would choose to have an S Car mark at the far end of the platform and nothing else, but this wouldn't go down too well with the passengers, so what we have is often a compromise.

 

[MattRobinson]

What does the S stand for?

 

[pendolino]

What does the S stand for?

S for Stop. All trains, regardless of length, stop there rather than anywhere else on the platform. A lot of stations have S car marks in one direction or another (e.g., off the top of my head, South Bermondsey has an S car mark on the up and 2-4 and 6-8 car marks on the down. An S car mark on the down would prevent, say, an 8 car train stopping short at the 4 car mark, but wouldn't be very popular with the passengers who would have to walk back to the exit which is London end of the platform).

 

[jon91]

It's just a stop board that all passenger trains should stop at, regardless of how long they are.

[edit: beaten to it]

 

[Muzer]

That's weird - so it's Stop Car Stop :P

 

[12CSVT]

Trains have always stopped a long way from the platform entrance at Bolton for as long as I can remember.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Trains have always stopped a long way from the platform entrance at Bolton for as long as I can remember.

Aye, it can take anything from 20-60 seconds from alighting the train to reaching the bottom of the staircase up to the footbridge. I'm not sure if this is as a result of the 1980s rebuilding of the street level buildings and footbridge however, I'm not sure if the bridge used to be a lot closer to the centre of the platforms under the old layout. That said though, I recall as part of the redevelopment work at the station last year they were going to shift the stopboards west so as to cut down on the walk reuired. This never occurred AFAIK and I think one of the reasons cited was safety of something.

 

[MattRobinson]

That's weird - so it's Stop Car Stop :P

Exactly what I was thinking!

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

 

[ess]

This problem aggravates the issue where access to car parks require exiting via a single distant exit or there only being a single footbridge or underpass. Hitchin is a good example where long trains are useless if everyone piles in the first two carriages

 

[Lewisham2221]

Am I the only one that turns up at a station a few minutes before the train is due and walks to a quieter spot, further down the platform, to avoid the rush/crush and actually get on the train quicker, thus being more likely to get a seat or decent standing spot??

 

[Vicpaul]

As a driver I'm a firm believer in there being one stop mark for all train regardless of length, The pros out weigh the cons from a business view.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Slough on the Down Fast is another. Waited in the middle with everyone else for a 2 car 165 coming in on the Oxford Fast only for it to stop down the platform next to the Windsor Bay unit. I then note the 2 car stop board is with the other car markers (3, 4 and 6 I believe)

 

[swt_passenger]

As a driver I'm a firm believer in there being one stop mark for all train regardless of length, The pros out weigh the cons from a business view.

So, at somewhere like Southampton, you'd plan to have all down trains stopping at the country end of the 260m platforms, with up to 10 carriage lengths behind them in the case of a 2 car 158. Passengers would be waiting and alighting about 50m beyond the canopies and 150m beyond the main entrance...

As long as it's made easier for drivers though... :roll:

 

[northwichcat]

That's weird - so it's Stop Car Stop :P

What's weirder is when they put a lot of signs up all in one place e.g. at Altrincham platform 3 they've got 2, 3, 4 and 6 car stop boards all in the same place. And there haven't been any 3 car working since First North Western days so it's really a redundant sign.

 

[Vicpaul]

Forgive my arrogance, I'm basing this on metro work on the southern region as far as say dorking.

It's not a matter of easier for drivers, it would help the business in aiding driver errors on stopping short etc

Punters can walk its not exactly an extreme distance most regular travellers know how many carriages the train is and wait accordingly in the right place for there carriage. They would adjust quite quickly if S car marks were introduced across the network. And as a commuter (bletchley to Victoria) I wouldn't find the change at all difficult

 

[Mintona]

As the above poster says, it's more to do with safety than anything else. Having trains of all lengths stop at the same point on the platform means less chance of a driver having a stop short door release incident.

In the last couple of weeks at Bromley South the 4-6 car stop has been moved further up to where the 8 car stop board is, and new bigger signs installed as it was the top location for incidents down this way.

 

[87015]

Forgive my arrogance, I'm basing this on metro work on the southern region as far as say dorking.

It's not a matter of easier for drivers, it would help the business in aiding driver errors on stopping short etc

Punters can walk its not exactly an extreme distance most regular travellers know how many carriages the train is and wait accordingly in the right place for there carriage. They would adjust quite quickly if S car marks were introduced across the network. And as a commuter (bletchley to Victoria) I wouldn't find the change at all difficult

It will have all been risk assessed. There will be a far far greater risk from passengers running up the platform all the time than a stop short which should be rarer. Your Metro work falls down at the first stop out of London Bridge, South Bermondsey is a entrance an extreme end of platform job so a 2-car stoping at the far end opposite isn't too clever.

 

[SS4]

Am I the only one that turns up at a station a few minutes before the train is due and walks to a quieter spot, further down the platform, to avoid the rush/crush and actually get on the train quicker, thus being more likely to get a seat or decent standing spot??

No, I do the same. Although it can be a false economy if station(s) before you had the main entrance at the opposite end of the platform. For example if you're at Five Ways for a train heading out of Birmingham the stairs will be at the rear of the train. At New Street though the stairs are typically at the front and middle of the train (assuming it uses platform 11B like always). At University the steps will be by the front of the train so you'd stand a better chance near the rear at Five Ways despite the stairs being there.

 

[westcoaster]

I presonally would go for s car boards at everystop, peolpe have no problem walking up the platform to board the train but have a problem walking back, can't have it both ways. ( Take london bridge to tulse hill, people will walk up the platform to the coach nearest the exit, regardless of what coach they board they will still walk the same distance no matter what. What it comes down to is time, people think it will be quicker alighting from the coach nearest the exit, but from me watching over the years I would say there is only a marginal advantage to boarding a coach nearest the exit.

 

[TDK]

All car stops are risk assessed for signal sighting, platform view for guards and station staff. It is risk mitigation for incidents occuring such as poeple being dragged down the platform because the guard cannot see the whole train, SPADs etc. So when your train stops at a position that you consider wrong the fact is that the entrance to the ststion or the passenger themselves is in the wrong place.

 

[jopsuk]

Stopping Cross Country services at the far end marks on 4 (for most northbound) or 7/8 (for most southbound) services at Cambridge would be... entertaining.

 

[30907]

That's weird - so it's Stop Car Stop :P

Time was, when the boards just had S or a number (at least on SR - I think it changed from the BR corporate signage in the 60's).

I suppose someone might have spotted one of the boards half-way along a platform and thought it was the platform number?

 

[A-driver]

This is often argued by drivers/driver managers and senior/customer service managers. Stopping short (where a driver stops at the wrong marker and releases the doors without them all being on the platform) is a huge problem and a lot is done to try to prevent it. It gets worse on a number if commuter TOCs at the moment with longer and odder train lengths (take Southerns 377s-they can be 3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11 or 12 cars and you can work a mix of lengths in a single day). I believe SWT try to keep drivers on the same formation as much as possible throughout the shift.

However, the far biggest risk to the railway and the biggest cause of incidents over anything a driver can do is passengers slipping/ tripping/ falling and where there's a blame there is a claim and all that. As such TOCs will try to get passengers off their property as fast as possible and that is why they introduce multiple stop marks.

This is the weighed up. As drivers on here have said, we would prefer to stop everything in the same place. Customer services however would live to stop every single formation at a different place. They compromise and if need be make changes.

Recently in the great northern route they re did a number if stop marks after a huge surge in stop short incidents. For example, Hadley wood down slow used to have a 3,4,6&8. After a number of stop shorts they reduced it to 4&8 only which didn't go down well as now neither a 3 or 6 car stop under the canopy (and the majority of services are 3 or 6 cars.

Hatfield down slow changed a while ago for the same reason and now sees 3 car trains stopping at the north end with 8 car trains whilst the only entrance is on the south of the platform.

That said, often passengers find multiple stopping points annoying and we often get abuse and sarcastic remarks from people standing at the 8 car having to walk back to you when you stop at the 4 car board!

 

[DazCM]

They've recently moved the 4-8 car stops on the down platforms at Bromley South further towards Bickley. Station staff tell me that had problems with longer formations stopping short.

Whilst I understand the reasons why, it now means it's only the very last door of a 4 car unit now stops under the canopy, with the rest of the train in the open air. I wouldn't mind so much but it means the majority of the train stops in an area with no seating, very little shelter from the elements and absolutely no visibility of any departure screens.

 

[SWT_USER]

Are the drivers supposed to always stop at the S marker? In SWT land at my local station Brentford when there are 4 car 455's running at weekends they often stop about half way down the platform nearer the exit rather than where the S marker is.

 

[72C]

A slightly different view; Maiden Newton; the drivers stop close to the token exchange boxes which are at the end of the platforms ( driver operated token exchange I believe) .

The platforms, are from a bygone age, so are quite lengthy accommodating 8+ coaches. For most of the year the line runs with 2 car sets. In both cases this entails a walk for passengers and if raining, it takes them away from what little shelter there is. From the drivers perspective it reduces his time out of the cab and also outside. From a passengers point of view it must look as if the train is stopping at a point as far from the foot bridge/exit as it can and making them walk to board.

 

[455driver]

Are the drivers supposed to always stop at the S marker? In SWT land at my local station Brentford when there are 4 car 455's running at weekends they often stop about half way down the platform nearer the exit rather than where the S marker is.

yes they are, that is just the drivers being nice to the passengers, not that any of them would appreciate it of course! :roll: