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Trains in the USA

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anti-pacer

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Why are American trains all 'stainless steel' looking in colour and design? Also, from what I've seen, even their new stock looks way behind what we have here. Has anyone travelled on trains in the USA, especially in the North East? If so, what are they like internally.
 
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Merseysider

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I rode the Amtrak from NYC to Philadelphia last summer and was quite impressed. Large windows, armrests, high ceiling (so not claustrophobic), brightly lit interior, clean surfaces, comfortable seats with enough legroom, and the ride was very smooth, too.
 

Taunton

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US trains were painted, generally dull dark green, dull dark red, etc, until about 1940, when the Budd Corporation invented their "Shotwelding" process to weld stainless steel (which compared to welding normal steel is actually difficult). Thereafter this became regarded as the "new look", and the tradition stuck from there, including vehicles made by Budd's competitors. Most Amtrak, commuter, and indeed city subway trains have, and continue to, follow this look, both ribbed and flat sided. It's just become a tradition that trains there look like this. In the earliest times of dieselisation even some locomotives were done this way, where others of the same model were painted.

Internally they are completely different, it would take an article to describe. Seats always face forwards only, and the entire train is turned around at each terminal point. Separate toilets for men and for women at opposite ends of the car. One thing that has not spread from Britain is the seats have never been squeezed up to just pack more in, the spaciousness and seat comfort is still just as it always was.
 

181

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See Seat61 for a description of Amtrak's long-distance trains; scroll up a bit for a brief indication of what you'll find on the Northeast Corridor. Based on my limited experience, Amfleet coaches as used in the Corridor have less legroom than those used on longer journeys, but they're by no means cramped. Amfleet windows are a bit on the small side in my opinion (you can see fine out of the side of the train that you're on, but less well out of the other side), although I think there are different versions. Superliner coaches are better for seeing the scenery. I don't have any experience of the Acela trains.

Other Amtrak trains include non-Superliner double-deck sets on regional trains in California, and Talgo sets in the Pacific Northwest. (Outside Amtrak, some cities or conurbations have commuter routes or networks, although off-peak services are often limited).
 

philabos

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The backbone of the NEC is operated with Amfleet coaches built by Budd, all now about 40 years old.
They have been stripped to frames at Bear Shops in Wilmington and rebuilt with new trucks. No prospect of replacement.
The Acela train sets are newer and scheduled for replacement in 2021.
 

jamesontheroad

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Why are American trains all 'stainless steel' looking in colour and design? Also, from what I've seen, even their new stock looks way behind what we have here. Has anyone travelled on trains in the USA, especially in the North East? If so, what are they like internally.

I have travelled quite a bit in the USA; multiple times during a gap year in Canada 2005-6 and then a handful of subsequent one-off trips on long-distance Amtrak trains. In fact, in the spring of 2006 (as late as I could possibly start my trip with low season winter pricing) I used the now-discontinued "North America Railpass" to build a 30 day round trip of the USA and Canada on Amtrak and VIA Rail. I wrote about it on Blogspot, and you can still read the blog (albeit in reverse chronological order) here: http://jamesbrownontherails.blogspot.co.uk/

Broadly speaking, as others have explained, Amtrak have two core fleets... the Amfleet (for routes in the North-East, and out of New York City) and the Superliner (mostly out of Chicago). Superliners can't fit through the tunnels into Manhattan, hence the division. There are some other smaller fleets of single deck cars in the east (Viewliner ... these are mostly sleepers and diners), mid-west (Horizon) and north-west (Talgo) and some double-deck trains along Amtrak-operated commuter routes in California. As mentioned, Amtrak's paltry high-speed train is the Acela, along the Washington - Philadelphia - New York - Boston corridor. Acela may not compare well to European high speed trains, but it is relatively unusual for Amtrak in that it makes money :D Note... Acela only has Business and First Class. If you want "coach" class (economy) you have to take a slower loco-hauled regional train.

I spent most of my travels (between Montréal and New York City, and between New York City and Chicago and Louisiana) on Amfleet cars. Amfleets were built in two generations, with a different number of doors and differently sized windows. But on the inside, like the coach class Superliners, they have big squishy cloth covered reclining seats. They are comparable in size and comfort to old fashioned (1990s era) North American airline business class. In the north-east there is also Business Class, which are moderately wider seats in a 2+1 formation.

Regarding the age of the fleet, Amtrak has a very unfortunate situation in that its constitution means it effectively needs to go cap in hand to the federal government for funding every single year. Long-term planning is, therefore, very difficult, and even the more liberal governments find it a struggle to invest heavily in passenger rail. There is an ongoing order for additional Viewliner cars to supplement long-distance services, mainly out of New York City, and the Amtrak Acela will have a new fleet in the next few years.

Internally they are completely different, it would take an article to describe. Seats always face forwards only, and the entire train is turned around at each terminal point. Separate toilets for men and for women at opposite ends of the car. One thing that has not spread from Britain is the seats have never been squeezed up to just pack more in, the spaciousness and seat comfort is still just as it always was.

Taunton makes a valid point - Americans hate going backwards on trains! But where train sets cannot be reversed using a Y at their terminus, the seating on both the Superliners and the Amfleets have a kick-lever beneath each pair of seats. It is time-consuming but possible for every pair of seats to be unlocked and spun around... or if you know how to do it yourself, to turn two pairs into a facing quad, albeit with very little leg room.

Meanwhile, in Canada, it's a whole different story. VIA Rail has a profitable and popular core "corridor" service from Windsor, Ontario (south of Detoit) through Toronto, Ottawa, Montréal as far as Québec City. This route is served by a combination of really old stainless steel carriages, 1970s era LRC (light, rapid, comfortable.... or léger, rapide, confortable) carraiges and even some ex-BR Nightstar "Renaissance" carriages. The Renaissance cars also serve Montréal - Halifax.

VIA Rail's business is different from Amtrak... Amtrak really does compete with Greyhound bus and the low cost airlines for long distance travel across the country. But across Canada, VIA Rail's flagship "Canadian" (Vancouver - Toronto in about three days) is a big bucks tourist train. There are a handful of essential service trains to remote communities in northern Québec and Manitoba, but the latter is on borrowed time because of the likely permanent closure of the railway line from The Pas to Churchill, Manitoba.
 

Taunton

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It is time-consuming but possible for every pair of seats to be unlocked and spun around... or if you know how to do it yourself, to turn two pairs into a facing quad, albeit with very little leg room.
Last time I did this, New York Penn to Albany NY, in Amfleet business class 1+1 seating with a colleague, I received a reprimand from the conductor! Incidentally, the legroom remained more than adequate, better than in a facing set in Britain.

Yes I did turn it back at the end of the trip.
 

Bletchleyite

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VIA Rail's business is different from Amtrak... Amtrak really does compete with Greyhound bus and the low cost airlines for long distance travel across the country. But across Canada, VIA Rail's flagship "Canadian" (Vancouver - Toronto in about three days) is a big bucks tourist train

It is, though it's also used as a mode of transport e.g. by fearful flyers. I met a few when I did it.
 

Taunton

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If you are doing an overnight in the double-deck Superliner sleepers, make sure you get a berth on the upper deck. The additional bogie/wheelset noise when trying to sleep in the lower deck berths is very noticeable, especially on jointed track at speed.
 

43096

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If you are doing an overnight in the double-deck Superliner sleepers, make sure you get a berth on the upper deck. The additional bogie/wheelset noise when trying to sleep in the lower deck berths is very noticeable, especially on jointed track at speed.
I did some travel over there last year on the Coast Starlight out of LA. Got to our seats, had tickets gripped and then headed to the panoramic car for the rest of the day. Very enjoyable way of travelling and seeing the country.

Of course, the real reason for being there was to do the BNSF AC4400CWs that were leased to Metrolink!
 

Taunton

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The Acela trains, used on the principal Washington-New York-Boston service, are actually a joint Bombardier-Alstom product, designed in Europe. They came along around 2001-2, but are already deemed life expired, and after a clumsy replacement project are now going to be replaced by an all-Alstom product in 2021, less than 20 years after their introduction. Meanwhile the 1970s Amfleet used elsewhere are "doing an HST", and, internally refurbished to a high standard, still roll pleasantly along.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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What about the ride quality? Got an opinion about the legroom? How do you feel about the services?

Ride quality - ok. The seats aren’t anything special, I didn’t like those on the silver meteor.

Legroom average. Better than the awful amount on 159s, not as good as on GWR HSTs/800s.

Services far too infrequent.

Any more questions? :lol:
 

nlogax

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Any more questions? :lol:

Yes. Why do you persist in making weird comments such as "You’re the controversial one if you think that Amtrak trains aren’t ugly" ?

Amtrak stock appearance - like anything, especially in this field - is subjective. Many people - me included - like the corrugated and utilitarian look of Budd and other US stock. I know there are also plenty of people think that Virgin Pendos look like kids' toys.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Yes. Why do you persist in making weird comments such as "You’re the controversial one if you think that Amtrak trains aren’t ugly" ?

Amtrak stock appearance - like anything, especially in this field - is subjective. Many people - me included - like the corrugated and utilitarian look of Budd and other US stock. I know there are also plenty of people think that Virgin Pendos look like kids' toys.
Ok, if you like the look of Amtrak cars that’s fine. What do Virgin Pendolinos have to do with anything haha
 

furnessvale

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I did some travel over there last year on the Coast Starlight out of LA. Got to our seats, had tickets gripped and then headed to the panoramic car for the rest of the day. Very enjoyable way of travelling and seeing the country.

Of course, the real reason for being there was to do the BNSF AC4400CWs that were leased to Metrolink!
Years ago, crossing Canada, I found you had to be up VERY early to get a seat in a dome car. We spent most of the time stood in the coach ends with the top half of the doors open.
Most conductors didn't bother, but the odd one tutted and said it wasn't really allowed without stopping us.
I suppose those doors have now all gone.
 

zoneking

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I recently traveled from Newark Liberty Airport to Philadelphia 30th St. The train was completely packed, 10 cars long. The wifi was useless. maybe because almost everyone was using their phones or laptops. The ride was not very smooth, quite bumpy. the seats were all facing forwards and 2 +2 to accommodate the larger Americans. The price was average - $63 for a trip of only 83 miles. The journey time was 50 minutes.
 

williamn

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The amfleet cars have an interior reminiscent of a plane interior, albeit way more spacious - thin windows, seats all facing one way, overhead lockers. I think its a way of reassuring passengers unfamiliar with trains.

Unfortunately aping the airlines is also a feature of stations with pretty ridiculous boarding procedures, often through 'gates'.

Two asides

- I find Amtrak trains to be almost comically overstaffed, and with very little concept of 'customer service' from often rather officious staff
- VIA in Canada is a different story - trains, esp the LRC vehicles, feel much more European in nature on the inside.
 

edwin_m

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The amfleet cars have an interior reminiscent of a plane interior, albeit way more spacious - thin windows, seats all facing one way, overhead lockers. I think its a way of reassuring passengers unfamiliar with trains.

Unfortunately aping the airlines is also a feature of stations with pretty ridiculous boarding procedures, often through 'gates'.
To some extent I think it's the other way round. With the Americans dominating the airline industry (in its early years at least) some of their practices originated from American passenger railroading - the form of transport that was most familiar at the time.
 

317666

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A lot of posts about Amtrak, who I did use on my first visit to the US last September, but I also used commuter operators MARC and NJT. I ended up using both single-deck and double-deck coaches from both, the double-deck stock had a lot more headroom than their European equivalents (presumably down to the much larger loading gauge), and I found it to be very comfortable. The single-deck stock felt pretty dated to me, with 3+2 airline bench seating but was quite nice to travel on nonetheless. What struck me was how much jointed track there still is, especially on secondary lines! Neither punctuality nor getting a seat were problems, and the fares were very reasonable. Journey times were a little on the slow side, but then these are commuter trains stopping at most (if not all) stations so I wasn't expecting a lot from that side of things.

One thing that did somewhat surprise me is that MARC seemed to prefer using diesels under the wires on the NEC to using their electric fleet - in fact their electric fleet (dated AEM-7s and unreliable HHP-8s) is being replaced by new Siemens Charger diesel locomotives!
 

duesselmartin

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I found the Boarding discussion rather interesting as it remineded me of my first eurosEur experiences.
The check in, luggage scans and Not beeing allowed in the platform until boarding reminded me of an airport.
But thats OT.
 

ac6000cw

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A lot of posts about Amtrak, who I did use on my first visit to the US last September, but I also used commuter operators MARC and NJT. I ended up using both single-deck and double-deck coaches from both, the double-deck stock had a lot more headroom than their European equivalents (presumably down to the much larger loading gauge), and I found it to be very comfortable. The single-deck stock felt pretty dated to me, with 3+2 airline bench seating but was quite nice to travel on nonetheless. What struck me was how much jointed track there still is, especially on secondary lines! Neither punctuality nor getting a seat were problems, and the fares were very reasonable. Journey times were a little on the slow side, but then these are commuter trains stopping at most (if not all) stations so I wasn't expecting a lot from that side of things.

One thing that did somewhat surprise me is that MARC seemed to prefer using diesels under the wires on the NEC to using their electric fleet - in fact their electric fleet (dated AEM-7s and unreliable HHP-8s) is being replaced by new Siemens Charger diesel locomotives!

The MARC electric fleet is maintained by Amtrak under contract and they've had a falling-out over the costs of it, made worse by Amtrak retiring all their AEM-7 and HHP-8 locos, plus MARC felt that having an all-diesel fleet (which they maintain themselves) gives them more flexibility overall as their non-NEC services have to be diesel-hauled anyway.
 

Halish Railway

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One thing that did somewhat surprise me is that MARC seemed to prefer using diesels under the wires on the NEC to using their electric fleet - in fact their electric fleet (dated AEM-7s and unreliable HHP-8s) is being replaced by new Siemens Charger diesel locomotives!
MBTA use diesels (I think they are Siemens Chargers) from Boston to Providence which is electrified apart from a small section.
 

ac6000cw

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...which are about half the active fleet, the rest being an eclectic mixture of EMD-powered locos - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBTA_Commuter_Rail#Locomotive_fleet

The SC44 Charger looks like it's turning into a winner for Siemens, especially since the (direct competitor) Progress Rail F125 still seems to be struggling to enter full service with LA Metrolink (and there was a very embarrassing failure of an F125 at a major PR event in November 2017 to promote the new equipment - https://signalscv.com/2017/11/metrolinks-tier-4-locomotive-unveiling-stopped-in-its-tracks/ )
 

Bletchleyite

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I found the Boarding discussion rather interesting as it remineded me of my first eurosEur experiences.
The check in, luggage scans and Not beeing allowed in the platform until boarding reminded me of an airport.

Eurostar is quite often referred to as "an airline on wheels", most of its operational practices are more airline-like.
 
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