Trains in the cold weather

[waynemorrell]

Hi,

With the current temperatures across the UK, I wondered if some types of trains are better then others when dealing with low temperatures ?

I appciate the infrastructure cannot always cope, impassable lines, downed wires, frozen points ect but what of the trains?

Southern were saying earlier that coastway services would be effected because the 313s don’t cope too well with sub zero temperatures but then later on are saying 700s are limited to 20mph because of unit faults? All of them?!

After the incident a few years ago where a 313 broke down near Falmer I understood Southern would be running 313s in six car formation during cold weather. Does anyone know if they are?

Thanks.

 

[daikilo]

Firstly, any electric train with 3rd rail or overhead pickup can be affected by ice on the conductor.

Secondly, any power-unit, be it electric or diesel, can have issues with snow being sucked into/through airvents causing a variety of issues.

Thirdly, any train with automatic couplers can have issues caused by either snow ingress or frozen damp.

Finally, the wrong type of snow really does exist; for trains it is probably the dry stuff that has been falling around Britain in the last few days. For rails and overhead it is more the damp stuff which then freezes solid.

 

[jon0844]

313s were working well today and I didn't see any 700s struggling either (OHLE land). Saw one 387 lose power three times before managing to proceed the fourth time, but that's about it.

Great Northern actually did pretty well all week in terms of keeping trains in service. Some delays as you might expect and today there were OHLE problems near Ely, but were probably not as bad given so many people didn't travel today. I'd imagine a significant number of people took the day off just in case, and to have a long weekend (as well as perhaps having no choice as schools and childcare facilities were closed, or parents feared getting home to do the school run etc).

 

[waynemorrell]

313s were working well today and I didn't see any 700s struggling either (OHLE land). Saw one 387 lose power three times before managing to proceed the fourth time, but that's about it.

Great Northern actually did pretty well all week in terms of keeping trains in service. Some delays as you might expect and today there were OHLE problems near Ely, but were probably not as bad given so many people didn't travel today. I'd imagine a significant number of people took the day off just in case, and to have a long weekend (as well as perhaps having no choice as schools and childcare facilities were closed, or parents feared getting home to do the school run etc).

OK, I was only going by what I read on National Rail Enquiries. I’m up in Inverness so no personal experience of matters further south.

To quote National Rail about the 700s

• Multiple unit faults with Class 700 Thameslink trains, which means they can only travel at 20mph

Source: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

 

[Bald Rick]

OK, I was only going by what I read on National Rail Enquiries. I’m up in Inverness so no personal experience of matters further south.

To quote National Rail about the 700s



Source: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

No one told my drivers doing 100mph

(The 20mph restriction will be if the horn fails).

 

[jon0844]

I could believe there being bigger speed restrictions in third rail land. There were speed restrictions on the ECML too, which perhaps ensured that things ran pretty well. Sure, trains lost time and Virgin cancelled some services given the reduced speed, but it was planned and nothing untoward happened AFAIK.

Today was significantly quieter than yesterday though in terms of passenger numbers. If things do/did go bad tonight, there shouldn't be so many people stranded if buses or taxis can't run or be found.

 

[AlanFry1]

Hi,

With the current temperatures across the UK, I wondered if some types of trains are better then others when dealing with low temperatures ?

I appciate the infrastructure cannot always cope, impassable lines, downed wires, frozen points ect but what of the trains?

Southern were saying earlier that coastway services would be effected because the 313s don’t cope too well with sub zero temperatures but then later on are saying 700s are limited to 20mph because of unit faults? All of them?!

After the incident a few years ago where a 313 broke down near Falmer I understood Southern would be running 313s in six car formation during cold weather. Does anyone know if they are?

Thanks.

378s have been really off this past week - even before the snow. A lot of unit failures. 360s I've heard things. I think 321s are actually quite reliabl in the snow.

 

[Bald Rick]

321s are reliable for a while, but they have a nasty habit of ingesting snow in the traction motors which will knock them out for a while. In winter 2010 NX Anglia had around half their 321 fleet with at least one traction motor out. The problems lasted until May.

 

[Alfie1014]

321s are reliable for a while, but they have a nasty habit of ingesting snow in the traction motors which will knock them out for a while. In winter 2010 NX Anglia had around half their 321 fleet with at least one traction motor out. The problems lasted until May.

Be interesting to see what state the fleet will be in next week once the it has thawed out and if the retractioned 321s are any more resilliant?

 

[Hadders]

Great Northern have done a decent job over the last couple of days.

I was on the 1812 from Kings Cross tonight which left around 20 minutes late due to a delay on the incoming service. It's a 12-car 700 and would normally be full and standing. Tonight it was empty - I had a bay of 4 to myself - commuters had clearly heeded the earnings not to travel.

One thing I noticed upon arriving at Stevenage was the build up of ice around the doors, including on the step into the train which looked quite dangerous.

 

[Bald Rick]

Be interesting to see what state the fleet will be in next week once the it has thawed out and if the retractioned 321s are any more resilliant?

Anything with AC motors is more resilient.

 

[jon0844]

Great Northern have done a decent job over the last couple of days.

I was on the 1812 from Kings Cross tonight which left around 20 minutes late due to a delay on the incoming service. It's a 12-car 700 and would normally be full and standing. Tonight it was empty - I had a bay of 4 to myself - commuters had clearly heeded the earnings not to travel.

One thing I noticed upon arriving at Stevenage was the build up of ice around the doors, including on the step into the train which looked quite dangerous.

Welwyn Garden City had near empty trains going into London in the morning so people definitely decided not to travel.

The service managed to run all day, but now there's a block from Ally Pally to Stevenage all weekend so we won't know how well they could have done today or when it thaws later tonight and tomorrow.

But there have been lots of people who did travel giving compliments to GTR which is quite rare!

 

[HLE]

Class 153’s seem to have caused panic across some TOC’s with one being said to have banned them from operating as single units.

 

[PHILIPE]

Class 153’s seem to have caused panic across some TOC’s with one being said to have banned them from operating as single units.

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/snow-service-changes-25-02-18-onwards.161224/page-18 Post #532

 

[HLE]

Yep, that was EMT on Thursday. LM 153’s soldiered on.

Until Friday when the Nuneaton unit decided to sit down at Bedworth around 10:30, cue a 170 having to be sent from Birmingham to rescue it, have to perform a very rare shunt move at hawkesbury lane points, then proceed wrong direction to Bedworth to rescue said 153. Must’ve been years since a 170 went down that branch.

 

[Wivenswold]

The 321s biggest fault in the snow seems to be those door runners freezing up. Water from salted platforms gets trodden into the metal footplates, come the next stop, they've frozen. Saw loads of them having doors shoved open or closed at stations. Since 2010 I've tried where possible to travel on 360s when it's snowing but the increased dwell times while the driver finds the offending door(s) seems to be a major factor in GEML delays in the bad weather.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Genuine question; did this kind of weather cause less disruption when trains were powered by steam?

 

[Mugby]

Genuine question; did this kind of weather cause less disruption when trains were powered by steam?

Simple answer; yes.

It wasn't unknown for first generation DMUs to be hauled by steam locos if they failed.