Trains in Paris and Berlin

[robertbishop]

Hi all

I'm in Paris until Thursday and Berlin from Friday on holiday, and I'm wondering if there is anywhere in either city where I can get a generic fill of both passenger as freight trains. I've got a half day free on Wednesday in Paris and it would be nice to hang around somewhere for a couple of hours and take some pictures on my phone. I'm looking for the equivalents of Willesden Junction (but safer?), Clapham Junction or Stratford, if possible. Same for Berlin.

Any help much appreciated!

Thanks,
Robert

 

[30907]

Starter for 10:

No idea on locations, but you would have to go out to somewhere like Villeneuve-St-Georges or Noisy-le-Sec for freight - the latter would at least get you the chance of a CC72000 on passenger out of Est.

Berlin is at least as bad for freight, as most of it uses the Aussenring which is miles out. The main yard is out at Seddin to the SW. There may be a little along the north side of the (Inner) Ring S-bahn.
However, there are some nice locations along the Stadtbahn from across the Spree river, which will get you a good variety of passenger.

 

[SHD]

Indeed Pantin or Noisy-le-Sec (Pantin is accessible through a nice cycle path along the Canal de l'Ourcq - you may hire a Vélib at Stalingrad or even Bastille and be there in 30 to 45 minutes) where you will see plenty of TGVs, commuter trains, and even loco-hauled ICs. Hop on a RER E to Noisy-le-Sec and you will travel past storage & freight yards. At Noisy-le-Sec you may be lucky and enjoy some freight action.

 

[Gordon]

Hi all

I'm looking for the equivalents of Willesden Junction (but safer?), Clapham Junction or Stratford, if possible. Same for Berlin.

Thanks,
Robert

First of all, I feel safer when photting around Willesden Junction than I do in the suburbs of Paris...

Surprisingly for countries with supposedly more 'interesting' trains than Britain Paris is not good for 'nodal' locations, especially as French freight has take a downturn in recent years. One problem in Paris is that some of the freight avoiding lines don't have passenger so you can't do a Kensington Olympia style move.

In Paris I found Noisy le Sec disappointing as some freights avoid it.
Villeneuve St Georges is not what it was freight-wise, quite a lot of freight serves Valenton but this is not on a passenger line!

Pont Cardinet is good for passenger volume.

Villiers le Bel will get you TGV, EStar, freight perhaps, loco hauled corail, on the Paris - Amiens - Boulogne/Maubeuge routes

The section between Le Bourget and Aulnay sous Bois is interesting for freight but note my comment above about feeling safe...


.

 

[Gordon]

Hi all

Same for Berlin.
Any help much appreciated!
Robert

The place to go 'in' Berlin for freight is undoubtedly the 'Aussenring'. The south side route between Schönefeld airport and Saarmund see loads of freight with a lot of variety of trains, but the line doesn't carry passenger trains except the local units.

Generally there are no passenger stations at the places where the passenger and freight routes intersect, because post re-unification passenger services don't go round the Aussenring as they did (had to!) in the DDR era

On the subject of the DDR era it is well worth visiting Schönefeld airport station to get a feel for how the DDR built transport provision on a grandiose scale to cater for lack of car ownership. This would be closed now if the farce of the now much delayed new Berlin Brandenburg airport had not happened.




.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

Schönefeld airport station is not going to close once the BER has opened, S-Bahn services S 45 and S 9 will continue to stop there.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Schönefeld airport station is not going to close once the BER has opened, S-Bahn services S 45 and S 9 will continue to stop there.

Apparently Berlin Brandenburg International Airport will open on 1st April, no idea which year though

 

[Jamesrob637]

The place to go 'in' Berlin for freight is undoubtedly the 'Aussenring'. The south side route between Schönefeld airport and Saarmund see loads of freight with a lot of variety of trains, but the line doesn't carry passenger trains except the local units.

Generally there are no passenger stations at the places where the passenger and freight routes intersect, because post re-unification passenger services don't go round the Aussenring as they did (had to!) in the DDR era

On the subject of the DDR era it is well worth visiting Schönefeld airport station to get a feel for how the DDR built transport provision on a grandiose scale to cater for lack of car ownership. This would be closed now if the farce of the now much delayed new Berlin Brandenburg airport had not happened

.

Well they did have Trabants so no wonder rail travel was popular being so much quicker and more comfortable than motorised Tupperware

 

[robertbishop]

Thank you very much 30907, SHD and Gordon for your suggestions!

I spent some time at Pantin (10h30-11h15), Noisy le Sec (11h15-12h00) and Pont Cardinet (19h00-20h00) on Wednesday, partly on the basis that none were further than Zone 3. Lots of passenger variety, including electric locos, TGVs and units, which was good to see. No freight movement at all though, which was a bit frustrating (passed a couple of workings near Le Bourget on the way back to CDG airport!). Regardless, it's understandable being so close into the city. I suppose it's a bit like asking why I'm not getting freight at Vauxhall, Limehouse or Finsbury Park.

I'm now in Berlin, and have set aside Monday for some Aussenring action. On the section of railway that you mention, Gordon, the only intermediate station is Ludwigsfelde-Struveshof. Out of the two stations mentioned and this one, is there one that is best? I'm staying near Hauptbanhof station, if that makes a difference.

I'll also try to follow up my visit to the DDR museum with Schonefeld, based on your comments - that does sound interesting.

 

[Gordon]

Thank you very much 30907, SHD and Gordon for your suggestions!
No freight movement at all though, which was a bit frustrating (passed a couple of workings near Le Bourget on the way back to CDG airport!).

Well I did offer you Le Bourget for freight!

I'm now in Berlin, and have set aside Monday for some Aussenring action. On the section of railway that you mention, Gordon, the only intermediate station is Ludwigsfelde-Struveshof. Out of the two stations mentioned and this one,

Saarmund itself is best IMO. I went there based on video sequences by more local gricers that I had seen on line, so it is clearly a favoured location.
It is more open than Struveshof (which is in a slight cutting). Its a very basic wayside station away from the village which is IMO an advantage. Has a footbridge and (unless its been demolished) a nice 'unloved since DDR days' signalbox.

They have rejigged the local RB service again since I went there. I had a really frustrating journey. I wanted to go south towards Halle, but at that time the local service did not link Saarmund with Seddin, so I had to do a complete circuit via central Berlin, eventually passing under the Aussenring a few km from Saarmund on a southbound ICE almost 90 minutes after leaving Saarmund!

I recommend you take advantage of the new arrangement and do a circular journey HBf - RE7 east then south to Schonefeld, to view the old fashioned platforms, and change to RB23 which now starts from Schonefeld and goes to Potsdam via Saarmund, Seddin, Caputh (the 'lake' route) Potsdam Hbf. RB23 is hourly so basically you have as many 60 minute sessions as you wish before reboarding an RB23 westbound. You could also stop at Seddin which is where the marshalling yard is (see google earth)


.

 

[MarcVD]

If you have time in Berlin and have not seen this yet, visit the tech museum.
http://sdtb.de/technikmuseum/startseite/ . Metro station gleisdreieck. Lots of railway stuff.

Envoyé de mon SM-T819 en utilisant Tapatalk

 

[30907]

I recommend you take advantage of the new arrangement and do a circular journey HBf - RE7 east then south to Schonefeld, to view the old fashioned platforms, and change to RB23 which now starts from Schonefeld and goes to Potsdam via Saarmund, Seddin, Caputh (the 'lake' route) Potsdam Hbf. RB23 is hourly so basically you have as many 60 minute sessions as you wish before reboarding an RB23 westbound. You could also stop at Seddin which is where the marshalling yard is (see google earth

And that's all Zone C so won't break the bank. The line via Caputh is very pleasant scenically as well.

 

[bspahh]

Apparently Berlin Brandenburg International Airport will open on 1st April, no idea which year though

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Schönefeld_Airport says that Schönefeld airport is going to stay open until 2023 in any case for low cost airlines.

 

[coppercapped]

And that's all Zone C so won't break the bank. The line via Caputh is very pleasant scenically as well.

For those interested Albert Einstein had a summer house in Caputh, see this clip, until he was forced out of Germany in 1933.

A lovely spot.

 

[Gordon]

Saarmund itself is best IMO. Its a very basic wayside station away from the village which is IMO an advantage. Has a footbridge and (unless its been demolished) a nice 'unloved since DDR days' signalbox.
.

Checked satellite images and some recent pictures and it looks as though the signalbox has indeed been demolished, and the footbridge modernised (and probably therefore the platforms as well) so won't be a 'retro' as when I was there. However the cart track alongside the south side of the line and the general openness of the station area remains, so remains an ideal photo spot

.

 

[robertbishop]

Thank you very much 30907, SHD and Gordon for your suggestions!

No freight movement at all though, which was a bit frustrating (passed a couple of workings near Le Bourget on the way back to CDG airport!).

Well I did offer you Le Bourget for freight!

You're quite right - though I took your hint on safety, and the area did seem a bit 'off' while I was passing through.

Arrived back in the UK last night after spending time at Schonefeld (10:20-10:43, 13:38-14:03), Saarmund (11:02-12:03) and Seddin (12:15-13:02) earlier in the day. Five freights captured in all (plus the ones missed arriving/being off the platform!). I also saw a rake of wagons being sorted using the marshalling hump at Seddin, which is something I've never seen 'live'. Unlike me, the locals didn't seem to notice the wagons drifting freely and banging into each other!

I nearly went round via Caputh, but instead I went back via Schonefeld to get as much freight in as possible. If I'm back I'll try to cover the former route.

Thanks all for your help!