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Trains controlled by Windows 3.1 ?

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windows_boy

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A friend of mine that drives for South West Trains, said that the computer in the cab of some their new trains runs on Windows 3.1. Really??? Windows 3.1? Why would they use such an ancient computer operating system to control a modern train, instead of say, Windows XP Embedded? Anyone know?

I'm a computer engineer (Windows support) and that astounded me when he told me that! :D
 
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adc82140

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I think a Windows 3.1 license is free these days, and doesn't require much of a processor to run it. Besides, the trains are not going to be logged on to the net, so there's no danger of viruses etc.
 

rww100

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Well if it can handle the job perfectly well, then I don't see the point in upgrading to something more contemporary.
 

222001

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From Wikipedia:

Windows 3.1 found a niche market as an embedded operating system after becoming obsolete in the PC world. Up until Microsoft discontinued 3.1 in November 2008, both Virgin Atlantic and Qantas employed it for some of the onboard entertainment systems on long-distance jets. It also sees continued use as an embedded OS in retail cash tills.

On 9 July 2008, it was announced that as of 1 November 2008, Windows for Workgroups 3.11 for the embedded devices channel would no longer be made available for OEM distribution.
 

Oswyntail

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From Wikipedia:

...
On 9 July 2008, it was announced that as of 1 November 2008, Windows for Workgroups 3.11 for the embedded devices channel would no longer be made available for OEM distribution.
Blast, there goes my impressive qualification :(
 

pinkpanther

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I guess it's time I retired my copy of Visual C++ 1.52 (the last one able to generate code for Windows 3.11) then! :lol:

I haven't used it since 1995 or so which says something I guess...theres been around 10 Visual C++ releases since then, with yet another scheduled for November. How time flies...
 

O L Leigh

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In the cab with the paper
Think that's bad...?

os.jpg


O L Leigh
 

windows_boy

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I was pretty surprised because I'd thought the computerised systems on trains would be very sophisticated and would need quite a few interfaces with the computer. That got me thinking that the serial ports the old hardware that Windows 3.1 (and the Spectrum???) would run on wouldn't be enough. Moreover, the old operatiing systems wouldn't recognise newer hardware.

I can see the reasoning for using a lightweight OS or order to use cheaper hardware, but I'd have thought a cut down Unix or Linux would be more powerful and also stable.
 

Oswyntail

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....
I can see the reasoning for using a lightweight OS or order to use cheaper hardware, but I'd have thought a cut down Unix or Linux would be more powerful and also stable.
IIRC 3.1 is very stable- the reported problems with later versions of the OS have all arisen from increasing the functionality in order to interface with bloatware. And why have more power if you don't need it? And I should imagine that the software for an MU is not actually that complex or sophisticated really. There will be a strictly limited set of functions, with no external interfaces.
Can the driver still play Tetris, though/
 

DaveNewcastle

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I've been using a Win 3.1 box to control the heating and to monitor a few sensors at work for many years now and its never failed, even when the log files filled the disc and when I had to turn on the screen to change the date (leap year and or millenium change). No probs at all, unlike all the 2k, XP, Server2003 and Vista systems which are VERY high maintenance.
I was pretty surprised because I'd thought the computerised systems on trains would be very sophisticated and would need quite a few interfaces with the computer. That got me thinking that the serial ports the old hardware that Windows 3.1 (and the Spectrum???) would run on wouldn't be enough. Moreover, the old operatiing systems wouldn't recognise newer hardware.
Hmm, the process control I/O cards just slot straight into the motherboard and might have dozens or even hundreds of lines coming off them to interface with the sensors, controls and actuators. No need to use the serial ports other than perhaps for remote access to another machine, and that standard hasn't changed in 40 or more years!
What newer hardware would you need to add? Most of it will be the external connections with the process control card.
But if you wanted to, I can't see why you couldn't run Win 3.1 on a new motherboard if the BIOS is doing its job properly. It wouldn't recognise the mains power management features but that's just as well on public transport!
 

krus_aragon

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I raised my eyebrow slightly at Windows 3.1, but find OS/2 to be more likely for that era: It was more stable as it ran DOS and Windows applications in individual sandboxes, so one bad program couldn't crash the lot. It was used in lots of ATM systems.

175s use Windows 2000 embedded. A Microsoft advert on TV a few months back was bragging on the fact that their stuff is used everywhere, and had the automated announcement system saying "Llandudno Junction" in the background at the tail end of the ad!
 

Bush

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When I was at Lovers Walk Brighton and the 377's were being introduced, they were fitted with Windows95 to operate the Mitrac Computer, think a few were modified with Windows XP at the end of 2006.
 

mallard

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While it wouldn't be unreasonable for Windows 3.1 to be used in contemporaneous trains, I find it slightly more likely that an early version of Windows NT would be used; NT 3.1 and 3.5/3.51 both have the same "look" as Windows 3.1, but are in fact more modern, 32-bit operating systems.

As for old operating systems on newer equipment, I saw one of those self-service tills (the kind that has been appearing in just about every supermarket recently), being rebooted in M&S once, clearly revealing that it (and probably all of those tills) runs Windows NT 4.0 - an operating system released in 1996 and superseded in 2000.
 

ukrob

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While it wouldn't be unreasonable for Windows 3.1 to be used in contemporaneous trains, I find it slightly more likely that an early version of Windows NT would be used; NT 3.1 and 3.5/3.51 both have the same "look" as Windows 3.1, but are in fact more modern, 32-bit operating systems.

As for old operating systems on newer equipment, I saw one of those self-service tills (the kind that has been appearing in just about every supermarket recently), being rebooted in M&S once, clearly revealing that it (and probably all of those tills) runs Windows NT 4.0 - an operating system released in 1996 and superseded in 2000.

Most of them run XP Embedded - Maybe M&S are using older software.
 
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