Trains calling - or not calling - at Coombe Junction Halt

[Ivo]

I have never understood the situation at Coombe Junction Halt and am wondering if someone could explain this.

At present, trains arrive at the junction from either Looe or Liskeard, and then stop to reverse across the junction in the opposite direction. As a temporary measure, this sounds OK, but for most services to stop and reverse at a point in the short stretch between junction and station just seems daft. Surely they should either send them all to COE or straight-line the route and leave behind a Parly service (or close it completely)? What is stopping FGW/whoever from doing this, besides the station's low passenger numbers and cost?

I ask this because I may be doing the Looe branch in June and am annoyed that I will be missing COE :roll:

 

[ainsworth74]

Surely they should either send them all to COE or straight-line the route

It would be near as makes no difference impossible to make the route such that you don't need to reverse as the the line up to LSK and the line down LOO are basically next to each other for a fifty or sixty feet. For reference these two images show the situation, first is taken looking at the line to LSK travelling towards LOO, the second is heading towards LSK showing the line to LOO (the 25mph speed restriction gives you some idea of where the pictures were taken in reference to each other).





Try fitting a curve between those two lines without spending millions on completely rebuilding that whole section of the route!

 

[Eagle]

The tracks are parallel for about 100 metres or so, in fact. And the terrain around there is really quite bumpy and the tracks follow the grooves between the hills, so there's literally nowhere else you could put the line without building some immense cuttings.

 

[tsr]

I too do not understand why trains can't reverse into the platform. I can't see it being used much, but it might boost the stats just a fraction. Surely it would be no more than a couple of extra minutes taken, if that? Couldn't the DMU remain at COE whilst the driver swaps cabs and the guard performs their signalling duties?

 

[Eagle]

I really don't see the point; the station serves literally nothing and is about a 10 minute walk from Liskeard station.

 

[bb21]

I really don't see the point; the station serves literally nothing and is about a 10 minute walk from Liskeard station.

Agreed, and given the fact that the points are operated manually, the train has to stop there anyway, so it's one extra stop if calling at the station for no real benefit.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Couldn't the DMU remain at COE whilst the driver swaps cabs and the guard performs their signalling duties?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the signalling via ground frame at the junction, so in fact whilst on the station the guard wouldn't be able to do anything and the train would still need to stop once more at the junction to set the correct route?

 

[tsr]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the signalling via ground frame at the junction, so in fact whilst on the station the guard wouldn't be able to do anything and the train would still need to stop once more at the junction to set the correct route?

Correct, but the platform seems to be within easy walking distance of the ground frame (even if it is a railway line). By which I mean about 30 seconds' walk.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

But surely any time saving would be negated by the length of the walk? If reversal for the driver takes three mins and the wait at the junction one minute, for example, I can't imagine the guard would be able to walk there and back within four minutes, especially not with door duty etc. Also, are there any rules prohibiting the setting of routes via ground frame if it's out of sight of the driver once set (as would be the case here)? I can't think of any other GFs in the country where they are set some distance from the train involved.

Edit - it's 11 chains platform to ground frame, which is a quarter of a mile for an out and back walk. Possibly not as time consuming as I first thought but a lot of faff for what I suspect would be 0 custom for 90% of trains...

 

[Ivo]

In that case, why is the frame not located at the station? Surely the minute extra distance wouldn't be that much of a problem?

 

[Eagle]

Because it works fine where it is?

 

[RPM]

After having travelled over the branch on a number of occasions over the past couple of decades, I have finally managed to get a train that actually stops at Coombe. I hopped off briefly and took a picture to celebrate
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8658035197/

 

[Sidious]

After having travelled over the branch on a number of occasions over the past couple of decades, I have finally managed to get a train that actually stops at Coombe. I hopped off briefly and took a picture to celebrate
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8658035197/

I too took one which stopped there in February. Quite unusual for it to be served by east Midlands Trains though!!!

On a different note, as far as I know Coombe Junction Halt and Wishing Well Halt are the only two stations on NR which are called 'Halt'. They had their name changed a few years back - anyone know why?

 

[jopsuk]

Another way of looking it would be: other than the paperwork and associated expense of doing so, why hasn't the station been closed?

 

[The Planner]

Who is going to pay to complete the process of closing it and how long would it take to re-coup the operating costs of the station if it is closed?

 

[RPM]

I too took one which stopped there in February. Quite unusual for it to be served by east Midlands Trains though!!!

On a different note, as far as I know Coombe Junction Halt and Wishing Well Halt are the only two stations on NR which are called 'Halt'. They had their name changed a few years back - anyone know why?

It was part of a marketing/branding exercise. All the stations received faux-BR(W) enamel signs at the same time.

 

[TEW]

Trains which do call at Coombe have to stop again at the ground frame so the guard can operate the points, an operation which already requires two stops, as the points have to reset behind the train when heading to Looe and the train locked into the branch. Stopping at Coombe adds a third stop within a short space of time for very little benefit.

 

[theblackwatch]

I too took one which stopped there in February. Quite unusual for it to be served by east Midlands Trains though!!!

Going back a number of years when I first did the branch, I was a little miffed that, despite being timetabled to go into the station and it wasn't a request halt, the train I was on reversed at the junction. On my following visit a few years later, I decided they weren't going to catch me out like that again, so on arrival at Liskeard, I walked to Coombe Junction Halt to catch the train, ensuring I was in view of the driver when the unit came into sight. It duly came up to the station to collect me.

 

[edwin_m]

The driver moves the train over the points to/from the Looe route while the guard is standing at the GF having set the points for Looe and before resetting them for through moves to/from Liskeard. Is this the only place where a passenger-carrying train can be moved with only one crew member on board without invoking DOO regulations?

NB Bere Alston is different - it is all one section and the points are left set towards Gunnislake while the train goes there and back.

 

[michael769]

There cannot be many places on the mainline where a ground frame controls passenger movements?

 

[The Crab]

As it fits nicely, this is something I posted some time ago:

"An amusing variation on this theme. In 1988 I travelled from Liskeard to Looe. On this line it is necessary to reverse at Coombe Jct to continue to Looe. We trundled down to Coombe Jct (about 100 yards short of Coombe Jct Halt), stopped just clear of the points and the driver sounded his horn. This meant "If there is anyone on Coombe Jct Halt platform, show yourself now". The driver saw nobody and made his way to the other cab. I had spotted someone on the platform and informed the guard as he passed at ground level. The crew agreed among themselves to reverse to the platform. To maintain appearances the guard got into the leading cab and "drove" the train by grasping the large handbrake wheel with both hands and swaying slightly from side to side (a bit like the old films where the actor was "driving" a stationary car). All the time he was muttering "We blew up but there was nobody there. We blew up but there was nobody there". "

 

[tsr]

Surely the train then may as well just run DOO to COE, so the guard doesn't have to jump in and out?

(I'm not actually being serious on this one! But I wonder if it would be possible...)

 

[TEW]

There cannot be many places on the mainline where a ground frame controls passenger movements?

As someone mentioned above the Gunnislake line is another one. The guard operates the ground frame at Bere Alston to change to points to set the route to Gunnislake.

 

[Buttsy]

After having travelled over the branch on a number of occasions over the past couple of decades, I have finally managed to get a train that actually stops at Coombe. I hopped off briefly and took a picture to celebrate
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8658035197/

I worked it a different way when I was last down there. I stayed in Liskeard and walked down to Coombe for the first train to Looe, I was on a Rover so I didn't count in the stats...

As others have said, the train has to stop again at the ground frame for teh guard to operate the points.

I have a pic of my visit last year and from a previous run down there in the late 80s which I'll post later.

 

[Buttsy]

Here's the 80s pic

 

[tractakid]

Would it just make sense to have it as a request stop on all services, so that the train can pick people up only as required? It saves time when there is no one, and it allows a passenger increase when they do come.

 

[Crossover]

There cannot be many places on the mainline where a ground frame controls passenger movements?

Morecambe to Heysham Port - driver does that one though and it is not reset after the train passes so nothing else can enter the entire section from Bare Lane whilst a train is on the line to Morecambe or down to Heysham Port

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Morecambe to Heysham Port - driver does that one though and it is not reset after the train passes so nothing else can enter the entire section from Bare Lane whilst a train is on the line to Morecambe or down to Heysham Port

Isn't one of the platforms at Morecambe still accessible (in theory) when the line to Heysham is occupied?

 

[Buttsy]

Isn't one of the platforms at Morecambe still accessible (in theory) when the line to Heysham is occupied?

Yes, as it is a totally separate section. Between Bare Lane and Morecambe, the lines are run as 2 independent single lines so two trains can pass travelling in either direction, rather than in the more traditional up/down way. The southernmost line is generally only used for Heysham traffic, everything else in the main goes into Platform 1 at Morecambe.

 

[Buttsy]

Here's the 2012 pic