Trains blocking level crossings?

[158747]

The signaller will have enough on his plate without worrying about level crossings and inconveniencing people. If I was the signaller the very fact I was annoying some selfish car drivers would give me a crumb of comfort in a mostly difficult day!

How are the car drivers selfish just because they are stuck at the crossing?
I appreciate you have other priorities in this sort of situation, but by taking comfort in inconveniencing road users is it not you who is being selfish?

 

[Llanigraham]

How are the car drivers selfish just because they are stuck at the crossing?
I appreciate you have other priorities in this sort of situation, but by taking comfort in inconveniencing road users is it not you who is being selfish?

What?
I can see no-one who has said they are "taking comfort in inconveniencing road users".
What is being said is that it is our job to ensure the safety of the railway FIRST, and only when we have discharged that responsibility will we then look at what can be done about those motorists.
What would you have us do?

 

[Crossover]

Some passenger trains make calls across LC's. Only a couple of weeks back I was on the Pembroke HST where the last carriage was in line with one of the wig-wags and also had it on HSTs in Scotland too

 

[scotsman]

Some passenger trains make calls across LC's. Only a couple of weeks back I was on the Pembroke HST where the last carriage was in line with one of the wig-wags and also had it on HSTs in Scotland too

Blair Atholl? Carnoustie?

 

[CyrusWuff]

There are still quite a few around, including in places where you really wouldn't expect it. Littlehaven, for example, has a full-barrier crossing which is electrically controlled by someone in a gate box integrated into the station building (which, entirely coincidentally, must have one of the smallest remaining ticket office windows on the NR network). This is despite the line either side and pretty much all the other level crossings in the area being controlled by Three Bridges (with the notable exception of some of the occupational crossings on the Mole Valley Line which have phones to the local box at Dorking, which always seems another oddity).

Veering off topic, but New Southgate's ticket window looks to be about the same size as Littlehaven.

(Picture from NRE)

 

[Crossover]

Blair Atholl? Carnoustie?

Can't remember. The Highland Chieftain that I recall it from was over 3 years ago and an otherwise slightly chaotic morning

 

[CyrusWuff]

I am told (not seen myself) that even though the manual Lincoln Road crossing between Enfield Town and Bush Hill Park is currently closed to motor vehicles, it is still staffed during the previously working hours.

A bit of Googling finds this thread on "What Do They Know?" regarding said level crossing.

The tl;dr version is that, whilst it's permanently closed to motor vehicles, it remains open for pedestrians, for which it needs to be manned until such time as it can be upgraded to allow unattended use.

 

[158747]

What?
I can see no-one who has said they are "taking comfort in inconveniencing road users".
What is being said is that it is our job to ensure the safety of the railway FIRST, and only when we have discharged that responsibility will we then look at what can be done about those motorists.
What would you have us do?

There's not a lot you can do in this situation, as I said in the previous post that I appreciate you have other priorities in this situation. It was Bodiddly's post I was replying to, which said
" If I was the signaller the very fact I was annoying some selfish car drivers would give me a crumb of comfort on a most difficult day."

 

[mbreckers]

Veering off topic, but New Southgate's ticket window looks to be about the same size as Littlehaven.

(Picture from NRE)

Could they have made that look any less friendly?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Could they have made that look any less friendly?

Definitely not wheelchair friendly!!

 

[LAX54]

Public servant? I serve no public my friend. I serve my employer who then serves the public. I couldn't care less whether the public go on my trains or not. I still get paid every 4 weeks.
Stupid comment!

Well, you should care whether the public go by train or not, it is those same people that pay your wages (and mine) if they did not go by train, then the line would make a loss, followed by closure, followed by a P45 !

Whilst I agree that at the start of an incident, major or minor, the level crossing (if affected) is wahy down the list of priorites, once things have settled down, then I would have thought most would try and clear the crossing as soon as they could, and woprk the service aorund not 'blocking it' unless of course no alternative.

 

[GB]

How are the car drivers selfish just because they are stuck at the crossing?
I appreciate you have other priorities in this sort of situation, but by taking comfort in inconveniencing road users is it not you who is being selfish?

If you have ever worked a crossing and been the subject of verbal abuse for no other reason than ignorant motorists you might feel different.

 

[Llanigraham]

Whilst I agree that at the start of an incident, major or minor, the level crossing (if affected) is wahy down the list of priorites, once things have settled down, then I would have thought most would try and clear the crossing as soon as they could, and woprk the service aorund not 'blocking it' unless of course no alternative.

Isn't that what I have said would be done, twice now?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you have ever worked a crossing and been the subject of verbal abuse for no other reason than ignorant motorists you might feel different.

Quite!!

 

[3141]

As I don’t know how to include quotes from several posts in a single reply I’ll handle this slightly differently.

It starts with Oldsiggies’ comment in post #15, where he said

“a level crossing in theory would not be part of the Signaller's thought process if dealing with a major failure, he will just need to keep trains moving as best he can, with as little delay as possible. On the other hand, if signalling normally, and there is a bit of congestion, then I would expect him to 'try' and keep the crossing clear where possible, but if it's a freight, then he may not know exactly how long it is anyway, and may think it could stand clear”

and I think that’s a completely reasonable approach.

I also agree with some of what Llanigraham says a bit later in #26, particularly “our first responsibility is the safety of the line”. The signaller has to work in the situation as it is, which might include something blocking the crossing, and he has to prioritise his actions.

Then there was Bodiddly’s post #17 referring to selfish motorists, on which I commented in #25.

If you work in an organisation that provides a service for the public I think you are working on the public’s behalf, whether the organisation is in the public sector or has been privatised. I appreciate that not everyone may like the term “public servant”, though Bald Rick in #28 is quite happy with it. Bodiddly in #30 is entitled to disagree, but it tells us a bit more about him when, after expressing his point of view, he adds “stupid comment” to show his dislike of someone having disagreed with him previously.

I aspects of Llanigraham’s posts that I don’t agree with are

“the last thing I will think about is what the public sitting waiting for the gates to lift are thinking” in #26 and “what can be done about those motorists” in #30, where the terminology suggests a dismissive attitude to the people who are delayed on the road. 158747 makes the point very fairly in #38 that “there's not a lot you can do in this situation, as….I appreciate you have other priorities”, but I’d hope that a signaller would also have in his mind the need to get the road clear as soon as the railway’s priorities allow.

GB in #42 appears to think that if you’ve been abused by motorists at a crossing on one occasion you’re entitled to enjoy revenge on different motorists on other occasions, but that could start a new series of reactions.

 

[GB]

I never said I'd enjoy revenge on different motorists at a different time. But I had numerous occassions where I'd been the subject of verbal abuse because some a33twipe thought the crossing was closed too long and he was the big I am.

Situations like that did not make me suddenly think...oh jeez I better let him through.:roll:

 

[Bodiddly]

As I don’t know how to include quotes from several posts in a single reply I’ll handle this slightly differently.

It starts with Oldsiggies’ comment in post #15, where he said

“a level crossing in theory would not be part of the Signaller's thought process if dealing with a major failure, he will just need to keep trains moving as best he can, with as little delay as possible. On the other hand, if signalling normally, and there is a bit of congestion, then I would expect him to 'try' and keep the crossing clear where possible, but if it's a freight, then he may not know exactly how long it is anyway, and may think it could stand clear”

and I think that’s a completely reasonable approach.

I also agree with some of what Llanigraham says a bit later in #26, particularly “our first responsibility is the safety of the line”. The signaller has to work in the situation as it is, which might include something blocking the crossing, and he has to prioritise his actions.

Then there was Bodiddly’s post #17 referring to selfish motorists, on which I commented in #25.

If you work in an organisation that provides a service for the public I think you are working on the public’s behalf, whether the organisation is in the public sector or has been privatised. I appreciate that not everyone may like the term “public servant”, though Bald Rick in #28 is quite happy with it. Bodiddly in #30 is entitled to disagree, but it tells us a bit more about him when, after expressing his point of view, he adds “stupid comment” to show his dislike of someone having disagreed with him previously.

I aspects of Llanigraham’s posts that I don’t agree with are

“the last thing I will think about is what the public sitting waiting for the gates to lift are thinking” in #26 and “what can be done about those motorists” in #30, where the terminology suggests a dismissive attitude to the people who are delayed on the road. 158747 makes the point very fairly in #38 that “there's not a lot you can do in this situation, as….I appreciate you have other priorities”, but I’d hope that a signaller would also have in his mind the need to get the road clear as soon as the railway’s priorities allow.

GB in #42 appears to think that if you’ve been abused by motorists at a crossing on one occasion you’re entitled to enjoy revenge on different motorists on other occasions, but that could start a new series of reactions.

Thank you for that in depth psychoanalysis. The post of forum counsellor is yours if you want it.:roll:

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

This is a regular occurrence at Feltham since the introduction of 10 coach trains, they stop the trains with the front coach on the platform and the rear coach fouling the level crossing.
I wonder why they did not move the signal at the other end of the platform to allow the extra coaches extend at the front and not foul the crossing.

 

[Llanigraham]

I also agree with some of what Llanigraham says a bit later in #26, particularly “our first responsibility is the safety of the line”. The signaller has to work in the situation as it is, which might include something blocking the crossing, and he has to prioritise his actions.


I aspects of Llanigraham’s posts that I don’t agree with are

“the last thing I will think about is what the public sitting waiting for the gates to lift are thinking” in #26 and “what can be done about those motorists” in #30, where the terminology suggests a dismissive attitude to the people who are delayed on the road. 158747 makes the point very fairly in #38 that “there's not a lot you can do in this situation, as….I appreciate you have other priorities”, but I’d hope that a signaller would also have in his mind the need to get the road clear as soon as the railway’s priorities allow.

Your 2 points over what I have said appear to be contradictory, and you seem to have taken some of my points out of context.

To clarify MY points as a current signaller with direct control of a crossing:

If I have an incident my first priority is the railway.
I will give all my attention to solving that problem first.
If (big if) I have time I will attempt to communicate to anyone held up.
If I do not have that chance then they will have to wait. (tough)
When the incident is cleared TO MY SATISFACTION only then will I clear the crossing.
Abusive MoP's will have their reg numbers taken and may be reported to BTP, and human nature being what it is it may take me slightly longer.

I suspect you've never done my job!!

 

[Bodiddly]

Your 2 points over what I have said appear to be contradictory, and you seem to have taken some of my points out of context.

To clarify MY points as a current signaller with direct control of a crossing:

If I have an incident my first priority is the railway.
I will give all my attention to solving that problem first.
If (big if) I have time I will attempt to communicate to anyone held up.
If I do not have that chance then they will have to wait. (tough)
When the incident is cleared TO MY SATISFACTION only then will I clear the crossing.
Abusive MoP's will have their reg numbers taken and may be reported to BTP, and human nature being what it is it may take me slightly longer.

I suspect you've never done my job!!

The mere fact you do the job day in day out is irrelevant here!
According to others that have absolutely no clue what they are talking about, we should forget all our training and run the railway as unsafely as possible!
I'm not a signaller, nor do I proclaim to be but I am a railwayman. I have been tought over my long career that the railway comes first. My original comments were a bit tongue and cheek but I stand by them. Private car drivers are some of the most selfish people on our roads, that's fact. It's also true to say that public pay my wages (if indirectly so) it doesn't mean I am a public servant. Far from it. I provide a service for my employer, they pay my wages and they get my 35 hours a week from my life not the public.
Say what you want about it but public or no public, I still get paid.

 

[Crossover]

This is a regular occurrence at Feltham since the introduction of 10 coach trains, they stop the trains with the front coach on the platform and the rear coach fouling the level crossing.
I wonder why they did not move the signal at the other end of the platform to allow the extra coaches extend at the front and not foul the crossing.

It isn't quite that simple. It starts interfering with gaps between signals so it could mean wider ranging changes need to be made

 

[SpacePhoenix]

What do the regs generally say about when a train is longer then the platform, at the front end, does the first car always have to be in the platform with the rear of the train not in the platform irrespective of whether there's a signal at the end of the platform or not?

 

[najaB]

What do the regs generally say about when a train is longer then the platform, at the front end, does the first car always have to be in the platform with the rear of the train not in the platform irrespective of whether there's a signal at the end of the platform or not?

HST's will have both the first and last carriages off the platform at Inverkeithing and (I believe) Haymarket - certainly the guard will make an announcement to move forward/backward to the next carriage before alighting.

 

[455driver]

What do the regs generally say about when a train is longer then the platform, at the front end, does the first car always have to be in the platform with the rear of the train not in the platform irrespective of whether there's a signal at the end of the platform or not?

Depends on the stock, location and local instructions, how long you got?

 

[russmcp]

This is a regular occurrence at Feltham since the introduction of 10 coach trains, they stop the trains with the front coach on the platform and the rear coach fouling the level crossing.
I wonder why they did not move the signal at the other end of the platform to allow the extra coaches extend at the front and not foul the crossing.

There's no signal at the end, just an old physical brick bridge so no room to extend the platform beyond 8 cars.

 

[fgwrich]

2 other stations in the South West where these situations occur are Feniton on the SWT network - 3/6/9 159 will fit if heading Westbound, however only 3 car can fit in Eastbound due to Fenitons short platform length (60M). The other is Lostwithiel on a HST heading Westbound.

 

[455driver]

2 other stations in the South West where these situations occur are Feniton on the SWT network - 3/6/9 159 will fit if heading Westbound, however only 3 car can fit in Eastbound due to Fenitons short platform length (60M). The other is Lostwithiel on a HST heading Westbound.

That would cause some paperwork, a 3 coach 159 is 69m long!

 

[Jonny]

2 other stations in the South West where these situations occur are Feniton on the SWT network - 3/6/9 159 will fit if heading Westbound, however only 3 car can fit in Eastbound due to Fenitons short platform length (60M). The other is Lostwithiel on a HST heading Westbound.

Are you sure about Feniton? It looks like a single platform...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Coming back to the OP, it could be bad publicity for the railway (i.e. unnecessarily blocked crossings), or something that looks just as bad.

 

[AndyPJG]

Are you sure about Feniton? It looks like a single platform...

Feniton is only a single platform, with the LX tight to the west/Exeter end of the platform.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

There's no signal at the end, just an old physical brick bridge so no room to extend the platform beyond 8 cars.

I was not suggesting extending the platform, I knew that was inpossible at Feltham. What I was suggesting was that for (London Bound) trains, the front 2-3 coaches are off the platform so that the level crossing can be reopened once the train has passed, rather then having to wait until it has departed the station.

However on reflection it is no different to the (Country Bound) case where the crossing has to remain closed while the train is in the platform, even though it is not physically fouling the crossing.