Trains are making our lives hell(Wrexham Residents)

[michael769]

Despite what most people think, trees are actually a pretty crap sound barrier.

They also take close to a century to grow to full size.

But surely the solution is quite simple, we have already been told by drivers that there are no issues starting these sets up - so why not just instruct the drivers not to leave them idling for long periods of time (say over 2 minutes) and to shut down the engines, in this location?

As they are ECS there should be no real issues.

 

[4SRKT]

Is the notion that a Voyager makes someone's life hell actually newsworthy though? The residents should be made to ride on one, preferably a 4-car one on a commuter working in the evening peak out of New St, standing crammed into one square foot of space in the vestibule up against the door of the chemical khazi which has been slowly filling up all day. Then they would doubtless be glad that all they have to do is listen to one!

 

[merlodlliw]

Is the notion that a Voyager makes someone's life hell actually newsworthy though? The residents should be made to ride on one, preferably a 4-car one on a commuter working in the evening peak out of New St, standing crammed into one square foot of space in the vestibule up against the door of the chemical khazi which has been slowly filling up all day. Then they would doubtless be glad that all they have to do is listen to one!

The story was in the local daily rag, I too have to stand in older stock from Wrexham, two coach 158s & 150s even more filthy than voyagers.

Bob

 

[Greenback]

Look at how many housing developments have been built on land next to the railways since 1970 onwards and are still being built. When you buy one of these properties, your solicitor would be notified of the change of land use in the legal documentation and in the registration with the Land Registry.

How do you mean by notified of change of use? There are lots of houses around her ethat have been built on former railway alignments that are now well away from any railway line. There is an entire estate built on the former site of a GWR depot near the old docks. If I had bought one of those houses (we did view one) what would we have been told and by whom?

On topic, it does seem bizarre that engines ar eelft running for 90 minutes. Whatever the reason for this, in these days of diminishing resources and increasing fuel prices, it's bound to cause negative comment, if only for the pollution!

 

[TDK]

The "railway was here first" line is understandable but rather arrogant. It wouldn't be hard for Virgin (and I guess Network Rail if there is a pathing issue) to generate a bit of goodwill here. It isn't that hard and is good practice in terms of CSR to cooperate with their neighbours.

Simple solution, the VT voyager sits in the goods loop, if the Voyager moved up to the further end of the goods loop there would be no polution, noise or diesel as there are no houses at the far end - simple solution but no forward thinking by the response team of VT as managers know nothing when it comes to operations

 

[4SRKT]

The story was in the local daily rag, I too have to stand in older stock from Wrexham, two coach 158s & 150s even more filthy than voyagers.

Bob

But are they as smelly as Voyagers?? And older stock is not necessarily a bad thing as any regular XC user who has happened upon the oasis that is one of their HSTs from time to time will know. The trouble with you ATW chaps is that in the new trains vs old trains debate you're spoiled by the lovely 175s

 

[merlodlliw]

But are they as smelly as Voyagers?? And older stock is not necessarily a bad thing as any regular XC user who has happened upon the oasis that is one of their HSTs from time to time will know. The trouble with you ATW chaps is that in the new trains vs old trains debate you're spoiled by the lovely 175s

Voyagers in five units have five engines, so obviously put out more PPM than a pair of 158s or 150s, and it was thanks to FNW we got the 175s, except for ATWs WAG open access Gerald, ATW since its start have brought in no new stock. Plus HSTs big noise in motion, but only have two engines,one of which shuts down when not in use.
Also I am led to understand the 57 that pulls Gerald Wag 1, is kept on running for six hours standstill in Cardiff & all night at Holyhead, anyone confirm this.

Bob

 

[WestCoast]

The story was in the local daily rag, I too have to stand in older stock from Wrexham, two coach 158s & 150s even more filthy than voyagers.

Nothing wrong with a 158!

I can hear the sound of 142s running by in the distance from my house and I have to stand up on them in the morning!

 

[merlodlliw]

Nothing wrong with a 158!

I can hear the sound of 142s running by in the distance from my house and I have to stand up on them in the morning!

The ATW 158s that ply Wrexham to Birmingham are filthy, on the inside & outside litter everywhere, this is all due to everything out and little cleaning.

 

[headshot119]

Though ATW 158s are tired, the ones that have recently refurbished look excellent both inside and out.

 

[4SRKT]

Voyagers in five units have five engines, so obviously put out more PPM than a pair of 158s or 150s, and it was thanks to FNW we got the 175s, except for ATWs WAG open access Gerald, ATW since its start have brought in no new stock. Plus HSTs big noise in motion, but only have two engines,one of which shuts down when not in use.
Also I am led to understand the 57 that pulls Gerald Wag 1, is kept on running for six hours standstill in Cardiff & all night at Holyhead, anyone confirm this.

Bob

By smelly I meant the toilet smell........

Having done the wait for the first train out of Holyhead off the 00:30 arrival from Dublin a couple of times recently I can confirm that the 'snatcher runs all night. In fact last time I was there in the station there were 2 Vomiters, 2 158s, 2 175s (1 3-car) and a 57 all thrumming away nicely. Coupled with the racket of lorries coming off the boat, and then reloading for the 02:30 departure back to Dublin, it's a wonder that anyone living in that part of Holyhead ever gets any sleep at all!

 

[Get-Pulled-Off]

Certainly older trains were never really designed to be switched on and off, and the heating/cooling cycle will reduce the life span of an engine, especially big diesel engines. If this was attempted now with the age of some DMUs you will quickly find failures all over the network and a reduced MPC for the fleet. Modern manufacturing techniques on newer trains have probably alleviated this problem to some extent, but life cycles will still be reduced if they are regularly switched on and off. Although car engines are getting better, older engines built at the same time as Class 14x and 15x series will usually be in need of scrapping or overhaul at 150,000 miles, whereas rail engines can manage a million miles or more, one of the reasons is the many heating and cooling cycles a car goes through.

One partial answer to the problem is to use engines that have the ability to continue operating on on fewer cylinders just to maintain heat and avoid relying on the batteries to fire it back up again.

I was told by an EWS (as was) driver that they were instructed to start turning engines off if they were idling to save fuel, and then wondered why many of their trains were sitting down all over the network. Saving pennies on fuel cost them thousands in delays.

 

[tirphil]

Also I am led to understand the 57 that pulls Gerald Wag 1, is kept on running for six hours standstill in Cardiff & all night at Holyhead, anyone confirm this.

Bob

I cannot comment on the situation at Holyhead but the 57's at Canton are not kept running any more than is essential for maintenance and static testing.

 

[90019]

No, I only travel on it between Euston and Crewe. A number of times Virgin have been short of a First Class host, so all of the First Class passengers move into one train. Each and every time there have still been plenty of seats available.

Strangely enough, the railways don't just revolve around how full first class is.

Just because the first class passengers can fit into a single train doesn't mean that everyone else can.
Then again, I would've thought you'd be advocating the doubling of a train you use, to get more chance of getting a table of four to yourself.

 

[All Line Rover]

Strangely enough, the railways don't just revolve around how full first class is.

Just because the first class passengers can fit into a single train doesn't mean that everyone else can.
Then again, I would've thought you'd be advocating the doubling of a train you use, to get more chance of getting a table of four to yourself.

I do also venture into Standard Class (), as I am interested to see how busy it is. The [18:10] has never been anyway near as busy as the [09:35]!

On Super Voyagers, I never expect a table of four to myself as there are just two of them, one of which has a big pillar in the middle of the window! :roll: I prefer the airline style seats.

It is clear that many people on this forum don't travel that often with Virgin in First Class (during Off-Peak times). Even saying that I always expect a table of four to myself is taking my original comment out of context, which was about staff "hogging" one of the First Class carriages on Pendolino's (and the table they were sitting in just happened to be my favourite one).

 

[Pumbaa]

Having travelled on the 18:10 many, many times, the Holyhead portion has always been much busier than the Wrexham portion. Just one set would be enough for all passengers between London and Crewe/Chester.

Have you ever traveled on 1D25/1R24. Although it may take around thirty passengers onwards from Wrexham, both sets are extremely busy past Crewe.

You can also say that not many people use the Holyhead portion until Chester.

I have also travelled on the 1810 'many many times' and I completely disagree with everything you've written.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

You're talking complete rubbish! I used the 18:10 twice last week and I found that both sets were very busy on departure from Euston with many getting on at MKC. And yes, I travelled First Class in the rear train with only a handful of vacant seats after MKC. A double set is definitely needed to cater for the large daily commuter flow direct to Nuneaton.

Strangely enough, the railways don't just revolve around how full first class is.

Just because the first class passengers can fit into a single train doesn't mean that everyone else can.
Then again, I would've thought you'd be advocating the doubling of a train you use, to get more chance of getting a table of four to yourself.

Straw poll indicates your experiences are at odd with others All Line Rover. Either by very good luck and coincidence the trains you catch are devoid of passengers, or you simply haven't ventured out of 1st class very far.

Taking into account your previous lines of argument regarding seat availability and your attitude to standard class travel, I would be more inclined to suggest the latter.

Should you wish to disagree further, you may find me somewhere on the 1810 tomorrow squashed into a corner no doubt, in the rear portion.

 

[All Line Rover]

Straw poll indicates your experiences are at odd with others All Line Rover. Either by very good luck and coincidence the trains you catch are devoid of passengers, or you simply haven't ventured out of 1st class very far.

Taking into account your previous lines of argument regarding seat availability and your attitude to standard class travel, I would be more inclined to suggest the latter.

Should you wish to disagree further, you may find me somewhere on the 1810 tomorrow squashed into a corner no doubt, in the rear portion.

I've never said that the [18:10] is "devoid of passengers." My original point still stands: I have never seen every last seat taken on that service, whereas I have seen every last seat taken on a number of other services. So, don't be surprised if Virgin discontinue the Wrexham service to use the rolling stock elsewhere (where it is needed much more urgently).

A simple method to reduce demand on the [18:10] would be to dramatically increase the price of Standard Advance tickets, and lower them on less busy services. Virgin have already done this on a number of services, such as the ridiculous busy [09:35], where they have, in fact, removed Standard Advance tickets entirely on the majority of weekdays! I find it remarkable that £30.50 Standard Advance tickets are available on the [18:10] (a peak service) considering people claim it is always so busy. Perhaps it is busy - because the fares are too cheap!

 

[T163R]

The railway sure was there before them...

 

[The Snap]

If no noise regulations are being contravened and with the railway being private land, surely these residents are p***ing in the wind...?

 

[tsubaki]

Forgive my naivety here, but if the service is really sat there for 30 minutes would it not be easier to put it the other side of Watery Road (possibly in or on the approach to the bay platforms) rather than having it sat outside these peoples houses?

 

[4SRKT]

The railway sure was there before them...

Idling Vomiters weren't though. The railway may have the right to be there, but it does not have the right to be a nuisance neighbour and cannot do whatever new thing it likes whenever it likes if in so doing it is imposing unacceptable noise or other nuisance levels.

 

[The Informer]

If no noise regulations are being contravened and with the railway being private land, surely these residents are p***ing in the wind...?

I can't wait to work a tamping shift outside their houses. I'll give em something to really moan about!

 

[bengolding]

Straw poll indicates your experiences are at odd with others All Line Rover. Either by very good luck and coincidence the trains you catch are devoid of passengers, or you simply haven't ventured out of 1st class very far.

Taking into account your previous lines of argument regarding seat availability and your attitude to standard class travel, I would be more inclined to suggest the latter.

Should you wish to disagree further, you may find me somewhere on the 1810 tomorrow squashed into a corner no doubt, in the rear portion.

I've got a strong suspicion All Line Rover is an ambassador for Virgin. He seems to spend all day travelling First Class with them, probably being paid to do so, so his views are rather biased. We should have an 'All Line Rover's Daily Travels' Sticky where he can post his wisdom

Anyway, I'm travelling to Nuneaton tomorrow. If I do get the 18:10, I will report back on how very quiet it is.

 

[All Line Rover]

I've got a strong suspicion All Line Rover is an ambassador for Virgin. He seems to spend all day travelling First Class with them, probably being paid to do so, so his views are rather biased. We should have an 'All Line Rover's Daily Travels' Sticky where he can post his wisdom

Anyway, I'm travelling to Nuneaton tomorrow. If I do get the 18:10, I will report back on how very quiet it is.

I am not an ambassador for Virgin, and if Virgin knew how much I paid to travel First Class with them, I doubt they would be happy. But, on the whole, they are my favourite TOC. (If they won the franchise and I got a job with them, I probably would become an ambassador for Virgin! )

 

[4SRKT]

I am not an ambassador for Virgin, and if Virgin knew how much I paid to travel First Class with them, I doubt they would be happy. But, on the whole, they are my favourite TOC. (If they won the franchise and I got a job with them, I probably would become an ambassador for Virgin! )

I assume you have an impaired sense of smell?

 

[Schnellzug]

On an unrelated, or tangentally related note, why is the Holyhead-Cardiff service apparently now referred to as 'Gerald'?

 

[TDK]

Forgive my naivety here, but if the service is really sat there for 30 minutes would it not be easier to put it the other side of Watery Road (possibly in or on the approach to the bay platforms) rather than having it sat outside these peoples houses?

I have already posted the simple solution by knowing the area very well, I used to take trains into the goods loop and the easiest solution is to ask VT to instruct their drivers to pull up further onto the goods loop away from the houses!

 

[T163R]

Idling Vomiters weren't though. The railway may have the right to be there, but it does not have the right to be a nuisance neighbour and cannot do whatever new thing it likes whenever it likes if in so doing it is imposing unacceptable noise or other nuisance levels.

And ? What stopped the residents from thinking a bit about what could happen in the future ?

 

[4SRKT]

And ? What stopped the residents from thinking a bit about what could happen in the future ?

Don't be silly. Nobody can be expected to predict everything that might happen. I'm old enough to remember a time when most of what everyone takes for granted today could not ever have been dreamed of. It still all happened though.

 

[T163R]

Don't be silly. Nobody can be expected to predict everything that might happen. I'm old enough to remember a time when most of what everyone takes for granted today could not ever have been dreamed of. It still all happened though.

Of course there will be (excessive) noise sometime if you stay more than 5 years near a railway ! New trains, new services, new timetables, etc.