Trainline

[trainletter]

On Wednesday I was caught short-faring and on top of this, I had applied a 16-17 railcard Saver, when I actually only have 16-25.

I am extremely disappointed with myself for this lapse in judgement in an attempt to save money on travel. I have been guilty of doing this for around 7 days worth of travel from St Albans to London St Pancras.

On top of this, around a month of regular short faring to Farringdon with my normal railcard applied.

Obviously I am extremely concerned this could result in a criminal record of some sort and would really appreciate any advice on what to do going forward.

 

[spag23]

As both SAC and STP are fully barriered, can we take it that this is actually what we call "doughnutting" (eg a big unticketed hole between Radlett and Kentish Town)? Easily spotted by the train company checking the purchases and barrier timings.

 

[Fermiboson]

Have you received any correspondence from GTR regarding the issue? Any ticket irregularity report? You may wish to keep in mind that GTR is able to research your ticket purchase history, and will likely figure out all other instances of fare evasion you will have, so the sums of money involved can get quite substantial quite quickly, and also that it is not in your interest to lie to them (but also no need to incriminate yourself) in any future correspondence. The typical out of court settlement is the anytime single fare for all journeys for which you travelled without a valid ticket, with no consideration for any fares already paid, plus 100-150 pounds administrative fee, and you may want to calculate this amount (but not tell us) and start to gather it for when an out of court settlement is offered. With the scale of fare evasion here, an out of court settlement appears to be the best you can hope for. I see that you’ve been around enough to ping Hadders, so I assume you know most of this already.

 

[trainletter]

Have you received any correspondence from GTR regarding the issue? Any ticket irregularity report? You may wish to keep in mind that GTR is able to research your ticket purchase history, and will likely figure out all other instances of fare evasion you will have, so the sums of money involved can get quite substantial quite quickly, and also that it is not in your interest to lie to them (but also no need to incriminate yourself) in any future correspondence. The typical out of court settlement is the anytime single fare for all journeys for which you travelled without a valid ticket, with no consideration for any fares already paid, plus 100-150 pounds administrative fee, and you may want to calculate this amount (but not tell us) and start to gather it for when an out of court settlement is offered. With the scale of fare evasion here, an out of court settlement appears to be the best you can hope for. I see that you’ve been around enough to ping Hadders, so I assume you know most of this already.

I really appreciate your response, and have often seen people mentioning not to incriminate myself, what is meant by this? As I anssume they will already know about access to my suspicious activity in the past. Also you mentioned the scale of my evasion, from what I have read on this forum there have been cases of evasion for much longer periods where the settlement was still offered? I hope so anyway, I have had no correspondence so far but would like to do anything I possibly can to get this settled as this could genuinely end my newly started career prospects. Feeling a major sense of regret at the moment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2024 ==

As both SAC and STP are fully barriered, can we take it that this is actually what we call "doughnutting" (eg a big unticketed hole between Radlett and Kentish Town)? Easily spotted by the train company checking the purchases and barrier timings.

Yes this unfortunately what I did, 7 times I counted.

 

[spag23]

have often seen people mentioning not to incriminate myself, what is meant by this?

The general advice is to respond only to the specific transgression(s) that the Company accuses you of. At this stage, don't mention any other ones you know of unless/until they do. But don't ever say there were no other offences if it's not true; this would undermine your honesty/sincerity if they know otherwise.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

You will receive a letter from the train company which should outline what you are charged with. You will (normally) be invited to respond. If they charge you with one offence, then you may be able to reply in such a way to not incriminate yourself (where you offer more "evidence" that could land you in more trouble)

@Hadders should be along soon with more detailed advice

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

The good news for you is you're dealing with GTR who are one of the more reasonable companies to deal with when it comes to this sort of thing.

They will send you a letter in the next few weeks saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. It is extremely important that you reply to this letter. I suggest including the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. GTR are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should the decide to do so.

An aggravating factor in your case is that you have done this before. The train company will be able to search your purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to the letter. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[trainletter]

I appreciate your response, in your experience it is highly likely I will be given the opportunity to settle the case outside of court then? As long as I respond appropriately, also, will the first letter I receive be the intent to prosecute letter or is there one beforehand? @Hadders

 

[Hadders]

Obviously I can't guarantee anything but if you take a look at other threads in this forum involving GTR you'll see that settlements are almost always offered.

 

[FenMan]

Obviously I can't guarantee anything but if you take a look at other threads in this forum involving GTR you'll see that settlements are almost always offered.

To the OP, it ought to go without saying, but if GTR do offer you an out of court settlement you will remain on their radar. If you decide to continue "doughnutting" they'll be far less likely to be so amenable the next time you're caught.

 

[trainletter]

To the OP, it ought to go without saying, but if GTR do offer you an out of court settlement you will remain on their radar. If you decide to continue "doughnutting" they'll be far less likely to be so amenable the next time you're caught.

Absolutely no question, I will never do this again.