Trainline: Mobile ticket refund after last train cancelled

[marks87]

Last week, I used the Trainline app to buy M-tickets for Dundee-Aberdeen Off-peak Day Return, split at Stonehaven. At the time of purchase, my plan was to get the 2135 home, so that's what I selected when buying the ticket. However, the app clearly states you can use any valid train. In the end, I did spend longer in Aberdeen than planned so aimed instead for the 2333 2323.

However the 2333 2323 was subsequently cancelled, causing me to abandon my journey and make arrangements to stay overnight in Aberdeen instead.

Trainline are now saying they can't validate the cancellation, despite explaining that I changed my plans from the originally-selected service (the 2135 did run, albeit over an hour late).

Can anyone advise what I should do? I believe that I should be entitled to a refund of the return portions of the split tickets due to the cancellation. However, if Trainline insist that my train wasn't cancelled...then what? Should I instead be claiming delay repay from ScotRail as the operator of the cancelled service? The problem there is I don't have any physical tickets, nor do I have the M tickets - they've gone from my Trainline wallet.

Any help will be appreciated.

 

[AlterEgo]

Which day was this? We can check if the service is showing as cancelled on RTT and similar sites.

 

[marks87]

Which day was this? We can check if the service is showing as cancelled on RTT and similar sites.

Friday 11th, which was a fun day up in these parts. I've already received 50% of the ticket costs in delay repay from LNER for the inbound leg being over an hour late.

Here's the cancelled service: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C21467/2022-02-11/detailed (it's 2323, not 2333 as I originally had in my post)

 

[Bletchleyite]

You didn't tell Trainline 2333, did you? Their drones won't bother checking another time.

 

[marks87]

You didn't tell Trainline 2333, did you? Their drones won't bother checking another time.

No, that was just me being silly with a typo. I checked all the details before filling out the Trainline form.

 

[yorkie]

Did you get anywhere with this?

... The problem there is I don't have any physical tickets, nor do I have the M tickets - they've gone from my Trainline wallet...

I strongly advise against the use of m-tickets; in contrast, e-tickets are absolutely fine.

 

[AY1975]

Last week, I used the Trainline app to buy M-tickets for Dundee-Aberdeen Off-peak Day Return, split at Stonehaven. At the time of purchase, my plan was to get the 2135 home, so that's what I selected when buying the ticket. However, the app clearly states you can use any valid train. In the end, I did spend longer in Aberdeen than planned so aimed instead for the 2333 2323.

However the 2333 2323 was subsequently cancelled, causing me to abandon my journey and make arrangements to stay overnight in Aberdeen instead.

Trainline are now saying they can't validate the cancellation, despite explaining that I changed my plans from the originally-selected service (the 2135 did run, albeit over an hour late).

Can anyone advise what I should do? I believe that I should be entitled to a refund of the return portions of the split tickets due to the cancellation. However, if Trainline insist that my train wasn't cancelled...then what? Should I instead be claiming delay repay from ScotRail as the operator of the cancelled service? The problem there is I don't have any physical tickets, nor do I have the M tickets - they've gone from my Trainline wallet.

Do you have an email booking confirmation, though? If so, then at least you've got that as evidence.

You could try claiming delay repay from ScotRail, and if they refuse to accept responsibility especially if you have no proof of having attempted to travel, then it might be worth escalating the matter to Transport Focus: https://www.transportfocus.org.uk

Did you get anywhere with this?

I strongly advise against the use of m-tickets; in contrast, e-tickets are absolutely fine.

Unfortunately AFAIK both Trainline and ScotRail don't offer e-tickets, only m-tickets, though.

 

[AlterEgo]

The poster cannot and must not claim delay repay because they didn’t travel. This has the potential to be viewed with suspicion by the TOC. They should continue to press for a refund through the correct channel, then complain, then escalate to the Ombudsman.

 

[reb0118]

I assume that the return portion(s) had not been activated.

 

[robbeech]

I assume that the return portion(s) had not been activated.

I too would assume this. The reason for this assumption is Trainline play out their fob off excuses in a specific order. Had the ticket been activated they would play this card first as a reason to refuse refund. In the unlikely event the customer manages to appeal this decision they would then, and only then move on to the next excuse which may be “the train wasn’t cancelled”.

This one is a proper catch all, it doesn’t matter whether the train was cancelled or not or whether the timetable changed or anything else, they will happily roll out this excuse to thin out the claims as much as they can.

Your best bet is to appeal their decision, link them to running data for the day and politely let them know that you are disappointed In their decision and will refer the case to the Rail Ombudsman should they not agree to provide the refund.

 

[marks87]

I meant to update this yesterday - long story short, I'm to be getting a full refund.

It was originally difficult to find a place to "appeal" their decision, but in the end I chose an "Other" option in their endless list of reasons to contact. I copied and pasted my original submission to the contact form, and the subsequent response along with a link to RTT showing the cancellation. The reply came back within a few hours apologising and saying a refund will be issued within 5 working days. I'll keep an eye out.

Now that things have been resolved, I can in fairness see why there needs to be skepticism. There's no way of knowing I didn't travel on the 2135 and now trying to pull a fast one. On the other hand, they didn't say anything like that in the response - just that they couldn't confirm the train was cancelled (which is beyond ludicrous when anyone, anywhere can do that).

There should also be skepticism towards the skepticism. How many people would travel then scour RTT and the like to see if they can make a fraudulent claim? Perhaps the real issue is the lack of joined-upness of the railway. In an ideal world, barrier and on-train scans (or lack thereof) would build a picture towards whether or not {m,e}Tickets were used. Of course, there's also no guarantee paper tickets have been used - I suspect there would have been no on-train inspection (last train out of a big city on a Friday and all that), and the barriers at Dundee seem to be kept open earlier and earlier these days.

But that's for another thread, that's almost certainly been done to a death already

Did you get anywhere with this?

I strongly advise against the use of m-tickets; in contrast, e-tickets are absolutely fine.

I'll know that in future. I quite like things being electronic (and see the booking fee as worth it). Truth be told I had no idea there was any practical difference between e and m.

 

[reb0118]

([A]nd see the booking fee as worth it).

Purchasing directly from a TOC's website would save you that fee. You would have to work the split out for yourself though.

 

[yorkie]

Purchasing directly from a TOC's website would save you that fee. You would have to work the split out for yourself though.

Or use Trainsplit, which doesn't charge a booking fee; this won't offer m-tickets though, only e-tickets or paper tickets (which I see as a good thing; I don't want the risk of being issued m-tickets)

By the way Trainline doesn't charge a booking fee if you buy on the day, using the app.

The idea of paying extra to obtain a troublesome an m ticket sounds unappealing to me (this is an understatement).

 

[Deafdoggie]

Or use Trainsplit, which doesn't charge a booking fee; this won't offer m-tickets though, only e-tickets or paper tickets (which I see as a good thing; I don't want the risk of being issued m-tickets)

By the way Trainline doesn't charge a booking fee if you buy on the day, using the app.

The idea of paying extra to obtain a troublesome an m ticket sounds unappealing to me (this is an understatement).

It is worth noting though that trainsplit do charge, although they don't call it a fee, even for on the same day fares.
But they don't issue m-tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is worth noting though that trainsplit do charge, although they don't call it a fee, even for on the same day fares.

Trainsplit only charge a "share of savings" fee if they save you money via a split. There is no fee to book through tickets via them, nor is a fee charged if they issue a split for travel on a non-Permitted route as there's no basis on which to calculate one.

Most of the time I prefer through tickets because of the added flexibility they offer even if costing a little more, and most splits they do that are lots cheaper involve Advances, which I generally prefer to avoid, again for reasons of added flexibility. However one very useful use-case for them is their ability to work out best-value split tickets via a non-Permitted route rather than saying "ner ner ne ner ner, you can't go that way" as is otherwise the customer-unfriendly norm*. I used it a while back to book Cardiff to Bletchley via the Heart of Wales Line, Shrewsbury and Brum, it was easier than trying to work it out myself and as it's not a Permitted Route no fee was charged.

* Though I suspect Trainline will do that now as it does splits.

But they don't issue me tickets.

Not sure what you mean by that (do you mean m-tickets and autocorrect mucked it up?). They normally issue e-tickets, but if that's not possible they issue paper tickets for collection - but indeed not m-tickets, which is good because m-tickets are bad.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Not sure what you mean by that (do you mean m-tickets and autocorrect mucked it up?).

That is exactly what happened and I hang my head in shame.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Indeed on both points. I have two Advance singles on Trainsplit which are e-tickets. There is no "fee" or "share of savings" as the Advances didn't use a split.

When I buy tickets on the day, I use Trainline as it's easy and no fee.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed on both points. I have two Advance singles on Trainsplit which are e-tickets. There is no "fee" or "share of savings" as the Advances didn't use a split.

When I buy tickets on the day, I use Trainline as it's easy and no fee.

As far as apps for purchase for immediate use on the day go, it is probably the one with the best user interface, though I tend to use the West Midlands Trains one out of sheer habit.

 

[plugwash]

I'll know that in future. I quite like things being electronic (and see the booking fee as worth it). Truth be told I had no idea there was any practical difference between e and m.

AIUI the difference is how abuse is managed and what implications that has for the customer. By abuse in this context I mean things like people using the same ticket multiple times, or multiple people using the same ticket, or indeed making fraudulent refund claims.

traditional tickets rely mostly on marking of tickets and on the ticket stock/printers being difficult to obtain to manage abuse. Some ticket barriers are also set up to consume tickets in an attempt to control abuse though that causes problems of it's own. From the customers point of view, the main downside is if you lose a ticket it is gone, you can't keep a backup copy OTOH as long as you don't actually lose it it's low-tech and unlikely to fail.

m-tickets rely on being tied to an app and requiring "activation" as their primary means of abuse management, i'm not sure if they also use a database like e-tickets do or not. The problem from the customs point of view is it leaves you at the mercy of a single app/device failing and it can leave you with no evidence of your ticket after travelling (or failing to travel)

e-tickets rely entirely on a central database for abuse management. This means that the medium the ticket is stored on becomes irrelevent to the abuse control process. You can display it on your phone in a rail company app, but you can also display it on your phone in your email client, or print it out.