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Trainee Train Driver

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Shunter44

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So i went through the whole test process with Freightliner Heavy Haul and had the interview with the Manager in October, but failed to get any further.

What are my options now ? will Freightliner Heavy Haul consider me again ?
would I have to do all the tests again with a different company ? or would I go straight into the interview with a Manager ?

When are the next trainee driver scholorships going to occur ?

thanks
 
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Joof

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So i went through the whole test process with Freightliner Heavy Haul and had the interview with the Manager in October, but failed to get any further.

What are my options now ? will Freightliner Heavy Haul consider me again ?
would I have to do all the tests again with a different company ? or would I go straight into the interview with a Manager ?

When are the next trainee driver scholorships going to occur ?

thanks

Hi mate. First of all the test count for all TOC's and FOC's, although some of them require higher pass marks than others so what is a pass for freightliner may not be a pass for somebody like great western, but you have passed them and that will count with most company's. The application will have to be bang on to get to the next step which for you would be straight to interview if they like your application. I have seen threads on forums and things suggesting freightliner will be recruiting again next year but nothing concrete. I'm in same boat as you pal. Just keep looking and applying n we will get there in the end. Not heard of the scholarship thing?? Hope this helps.
 

echodelta31

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A pass is a pass nowadays. No borderlines or high scores so I believe.

Not completely sure on that. C2C Stage one assessment last Thursday and we were told that C2C have an enhanced pass level required for employment with them. They were quite clear that it was higher than the industry standard pass.

Just to make things that much more....'fun'...<( Can't wait for the results now :p
 

Shunter44

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Hi, when i said scholorship, i meant graduate scheme. I think i would have done pretty well on the tests, im good at repetative things and computer games. i guess i should have been more geeky and researched more, they say u dont need to be a train spotter but im thinking you kinda do. I think i need to know my trains, the routes and the lingo more to stand a better chance. Also id rather drive freight than passengers so i was really gutted they dropped me.
 

Memetim

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Hi, when i said scholorship, i meant graduate scheme. I think i would have done pretty well on the tests, im good at repetative things and computer games. i guess i should have been more geeky and researched more, they say u dont need to be a train spotter but im thinking you kinda do. I think i need to know my trains, the routes and the lingo more to stand a better chance. Also id rather drive freight than passengers so i was really gutted they dropped me.

I disagree, I am not a train spotter by any means and I recently got offered a position after my interview. I did some research on the company and looked up the routes I expected I would be driving along before going to the interview and was fine. They wont expect you to have an in depth technical knowledge as that is what you will learn. I'm sure if you persevere you will get it next time :)
 

455driver

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Not completely sure on that. C2C Stage one assessment last Thursday and we were told that C2C have an enhanced pass level required for employment with them. They were quite clear that it was higher than the industry standard pass.

Just to make things that much more....'fun'...<( Can't wait for the results now :p

Ifyou pass the tests but not high enough to be employed at C2C it will still be classed as a pass on the database though.
 

387star

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Not completely sure on that. C2C Stage one assessment last Thursday and we were told that C2C have an enhanced pass level required for employment with them. They were quite clear that it was higher than the industry standard pass.

Just to make things that much more....'fun'...<( Can't wait for the results now :p

Yep can confirm my pass from freightliner wasn't good enough for C2C but fine for FGW
Does enhanced include the MMI interview or Is that simply pass or fail
 
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echodelta31

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Yep can confirm my pass from freightliner wasn't good enough
Does enhanced include the MMI interview or Is that simply pass or fail

Not too sure on the MMI. Stage 1 was just covering the paper tests, but I suppose any test capable of being defined numerically could have different levels of pass....

As the scoring systems are unknown, in the interview you could gain a point for every relevant competency demonstrated, for example. Total number of points = pass/fail, but could also have an enhanced level.

All conjecture anyway, but the 'enhanced' system bugs me slightly. Would be good at the application stage if you were notified of the level required. It seems to defeat the object of having an industry standard if you have to question a particular TOC as to whether your 'pass' is actually a pass in their eyes.....
 

455driver

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The tests are there to prove natural ability so you will be able to keep up during the training, the fact people are practising them for hours on end until they can scrape through them but then struggle during the training (holding everyone else back and making it hard work for the trainers) means the TOCs have had to do eomething to prevent that happening hence the existence of some TOCs requiring more than just a pass.
 

387star

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The tests are there to prove natural ability so you will be able to keep up during the training, the fact people are practising them for hours on end until they can scrape through them but then struggle during the training (holding everyone else back and making it hard work for the trainers) means the TOCs have had to do eomething to prevent that happening hence the existence of some TOCs requiring more than just a pass.

Only TRP1/2 are really relevant to that the rest are experience based or looking at your reactions concentration and perception etc which of course are very important from a safety perspective but do not affect the training ability

I think if someone passes on the reactions for instance that should be simply pass/fail otherwise it is implying some companies are taking on candidates who are not safe to drive!

The main reason is to further cut back on candidates

I have not heard of borderline passes being mentioned since the new tests so perhaps that was only relevant to the old tests now it seems enhanced pass/pass/fail . Obviously a borderline pass may count as a fail if a company requires an enhanced pass. I'd love to know if the MMI is worked into the enhanced pass. Some companies make you take ALL tests again if you fail to reach the enhanced level but this does not necessarily mean ALL tests require an enhanced mark.

Then there are of course some who ask you to take non core tests eg DFFT (think LOROL/Southern use this?) mechanics numeracy or written communication. I think written communication is the only one which is seen as a 'core' test (it is listed in the national practice material) but is not enforced

I am not sure if any company still uses the mechanics during the assessment day but it may be fed in to the application likewise numeracy
 
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echodelta31

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Romford, London
The tests are there to prove natural ability so you will be able to keep up during the training, the fact people are practising them for hours on end until they can scrape through them but then struggle during the training (holding everyone else back and making it hard work for the trainers) means the TOCs have had to do eomething to prevent that happening hence the existence of some TOCs requiring more than just a pass.

Trying desperately hard not to derail the thread more than I have already (Apologies Shunter...), but there's a small problem with this 'solution' to people practising too much.

So, you generate an enhanced pass rate for a particular TOC, designed to perhaps weed out people who practiced the tests so much that their eyes bleed, but might not actually be easily trainable...

What happens if those people practice even harder? And scrape through at the enhanced level, with the same trainability problem you give occurring?

It all seems like a 'death spiral' scenario. Aptitude tests come in -> lots of applications -> people practice testing like demons -> TOC's realise and employ enhanced pass rate -> people practice harder -> TOC's then.......?

It simply seems unsustainable to simply employ a higher pass rate as an answer to people doing what people will do...practice and do their best to pass an exam for something that they want to do.

As an aside, this was my first time at sitting any of the assessments. I received the testing companies 'practice material' 2 days before the test. Had to sign a declaration that I was happy to sit the tests as I should have had it 7 days before.

Now, I viewed the practice material as an introduction to what was expected of me. An idea of how the tests would run. The material itself was so different at times to the actual test that I'm not even sure you could call it practice material.

I'm still awaiting my result. I'm pretty happy with how I performed and I didn't practice day and night.

But if what has already been said is true, perhaps I should've done. In designing a higher pass rate, surely you put people who didn't practice to excess at a disadvantage? Leading to people believing that practising is an absolute 'must-do' in order to pass, leading to the very behaviour that you say is not conducive to good trainability.

It's a mad world we live in...I just hope I passed. :D

*EDIT* - Just went for a ciggie, re-read this and I missed the most important part. I actually agree with the basis of your post (that extreme practice may be employing people who perhaps shouldn't have), but fiddling around with pass rates and whatever doesn't seem like the right solution. Without having any data to fall back on, I would imagine that an awful lot of genuinely trainable people (who pass the industry standard) could be denied employment whilst an awful lot of 'serial-practicing' people still get through. Which tends to discredit the testing as the benchmark of a person capable of learning and give more credence to another artificial recruitment sift.
 
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387star

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Are DB still making people take written communication part one/two and numeracy assessments or simply the core assessments under the new regime?

A list of which companies use which assessments would be most enlightening
 

Shunter44

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interesting replies, all good thanks. I guess I could have researched the routes more but I didnt see anything much from the Freightliner website and I didnt even know what locations I could have been based at. I did say I would relocate anywhere and could travel 1 to 1.5 hours to work. Where can I learn about the freight routes ?
 
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Joof

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interesting replies, all good thanks. I guess I could have researched the routes more but I didnt see anything much from the Freightliner website and I didnt even know what locations I could have been based at. I did say I would relocate anywhere and could travel 1 to 1.5 hours to work. Where can I learn about the freight routes ?

Go on Wikipedia n on freightliner website there is a full map of all their network n where they go to n from. I only found this after. Sounds like I had a very similar experience as you did. I've learnt from it n will go much much better prepared should I get another chance. N I fully intend to get another shot at this. Fingers crossed
 
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