Trainee drivers Freighliner HH

[westbrom]

If the give the job to an internal,they would then have to train them,plus recruit and train a replacement for them,if they recruit an external they would have to only train them,so there are advantages of recruiting externally

 

[DunfordBridge]

If the give the job to an internal,they would then have to train them,plus recruit and train a replacement for them,if they recruit an external they would have to only train them,so there are advantages of recruiting externally

That is quite a good point, one which I would never have considered, but would it cost as much to train an internal bearing in mind that they may already have covered some aspects of driver training such as Personal Track Safety?

Could be swings and roundabouts but it may depend on how quickly Freightliner require a certain number of drivers.

 

[JAMBO]

The advantage of the internals is they know how the company operate, locations, and what they want from a driver. Majority have PTS, shunting, wagons, and such, and have a very good background in railway operations. Some of these guys have easily 20 years plus on the railway and have been with heavy haul from day one, so it's only correct that these guys get a go at this. The DTM interview will just be a formality, so only the structured to do. If you have your head screwed on they should know what's coming regarding questions as they only sat it 6 month ago.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Heard the internals have all been invited back for the interview, so there's a large chunk of the jobs gone,they should get to the depot there based too.

I've no vested interest in this thread, but I've started to follow it with some degree of interest. You seem to be determined to dishearten or underemine all the external applicants.

A lot of what you are posting does not ring true. TOC's know where the work is, before they recruit new drivers. They don't just recruit for the sake of it, and hope there will be jobs. Stop trying to put people off, with false rumours.

I very much doubt that ALL internal applicants will have been invited back. That would be an unheard of success rate on the testing process. I similarly doubt, that all that pass would automatically get jobs, as you seem to be suggesting.

I've seen A LOT of internal candidates go for trainee driver jobs, and 95% of them get knocked back.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That is quite a good point, one which I would never have considered, but would it cost as much to train an internal bearing in mind that they may already have covered some aspects of driver training such as Personal Track Safety?

Could be swings and roundabouts but it may depend on how quickly Freightliner require a certain number of drivers.

Makes no difference. Trainee drivers all undertake the same training, regardless of background. PTS - no big deal; it's about a day to cover it. Able to couple a loco on; not exactly rocket science. Etc, etc.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The advantage of the internals is they know how the company operate, locations, and what they want from a driver. Majority have PTS, shunting, wagons, and such, and have a very good background in railway operations. Some of these guys have easily 20 years plus on the railway and have been with heavy haul from day one, so it's only correct that these guys get a go at this. The DTM interview will just be a formality, so only the structured to do. If you have your head screwed on they should know what's coming regarding questions as they only sat it 6 month ago.

A very revealing statement. "I'm internal, so I should get this job, ahead of someone from outside"...... How many times have we heard that, from internals who have been knocked back?

 

[455driver]

If the give the job to an internal,they would then have to train them,plus recruit and train a replacement for them,if they recruit an external they would have to only train them,so there are advantages of recruiting externally

A very simplistic view of the recruitment process.

The internal is a known quantity and so they will be 99% certain that they have recruited the right person because they will know from their previous work record.

By taking on an external they will not know if they are the right type of person until spending £squillions on them just for them to mess up the training because they havent got the natural skills required because they practised all the tests before hand or they fu um make an error as soon as they are out on their own.

I know who I would rather recruit!

 

[E&W Lucas]

A very simplistic view of the recruitment process.

The internal is a known quantity and so they will be 99% certain that they have recruited the right person because they will know from their previous work record.

By taking on an external they will not know if they are the right type of person until spending £squillions on them just for them to mess up the training because they havent got the natural skills required because they practised all the tests before hand or they fu um make an error as soon as they are out on their own.

I know who I would rather recruit!

We're drifting massively off subject, but have you ever interviewed anyone?

It's a basic management skill. Judging people, reviewing their answers, spotting inconsistencies and bulls***. Most of us that have been recruited from outside, didn't "FU" as soon as we went out on our own. Of the trainees that I've had, the only one that did (and who is no longer on the railway), was an internal. I've seen more internals than externals taken off the training course, because they could not cope. Background makes no difference; the training covers everything, with the expectation of nil prior knowledge. The key, is selecting the right person in the first place, whatever their background.

 

[NinjaJihad]

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched! Once through the CBI, there's the DM interview to contend with. Just because someone is from a railway background doesn't necessarily make them a better candidate. There's guys I've come into contact with that have been my field for years and they're very set in their ways. An outsider can be a blank canvas with no preconceptions that a company can mould into their own image.

I'm certainly not counting any chickens personally. What I meant in my post that I hope no one loses a life was that as far as i'm aware, if you pass stage 2 then you have passed the train driver assessment, you may not land the job but you haven't lost a life. I'm not 100% on this though so stand to be corrected.

 

[JAMBO]

E&W, easy fella, take it your a Heavy Haul driver??? You must have been informed of something different regarding the trainee process.

 

[E&W Lucas]

E&W, easy fella, take it your a Heavy Haul driver??? You must have been informed of something different regarding the trainee process.

A lot of what you are saying sounds like rumours to me. Unless you are the recruiting manager, you don't know the full story.

I'm not HH, but I've been in the driving grade for a relatively long time, I've trained others to do the job, and I know how things work.

A lot of internal candidates, thing that progression to driver should be their right. I've sat and listened to their spite and resentment in the messroom. They resent external candidates getting a chance; however, when companies go external, they attract some seriously capable people, who can adjust rapidly to the railway environment.

 

[455driver]

Background makes no difference; the training covers everything,

Background does make a difference and the training cannot cover everything. :roll:

 

[E&W Lucas]

Background does make a difference and the training cannot cover everything. :roll:

Counter evidence - Myself and two other gents off my training course, had no prior experience on the mainline railway. 12 years on, we still all have clean driving records. We were all given "front end trainees" after a few months driving ourselves, as we had substantial training experience elsewhere. We were all recruited and trained as instructor drivers at the earleist possible date, and were performing the task, the moment we had the requisite experience.
A couple of us of my course, have moved on to one of the more desireable inter city operators. Some of our managers have followed us, as drivers!
(and they were actually sound as bosses, and are likewise as colleagues).

The training provides a framework. If you have the self discipline to stick within it, whilst you develop experience yourself, you will be fine. Of course it cannot cover every eventuality; you have to recruit someone with enough nous to cope.

 

[JAMBO]

E&W are you actually a freight driver? You seem to know quite a lot about how heavy haul operate. Quite impressive for someone who doesn't work for them. So it's all guess work on your part then mate how they operate and recruit.

 

[LondonmidlandC]

I suppose the best way to look at it is if we can pass the reaction and CBi we stand in good stead for a drivers position. The more I read up about it and the more I learn about the company the more I want this job but my ambition is to drive trains. Passenger is still an option and there are many a rumour around my depot of multiple companies offering vacancies around the country in the coming months and years. I suppose the only thing we can do is practice hard, perform well, and wait patiently.
Still think it would be cool to sit behind 3000+bhp engine though
I think I read a few of you guys are testing today so good luck.
I've still got 12 days to wait. Running out of nails to bite.

 

[E&W Lucas]

E&W are you actually a freight driver? You seem to know quite a lot about how heavy haul operate. Quite impressive for someone who doesn't work for them. So it's all guess work on your part then mate how they operate and recruit.

Every time any company recruits drivers, you get rumours, gossip and moaning about the successful candidates. All you are doing, is posting those rumours on here.

Recruitment is a confidential process. The only people who know what's going on, arte the managers responsible, and they are hardly likely to be mouthing off, especially to non - driving grades. It's also an expensive process; if the external candidates were discounted, they wouldn't be paying for them to be tested.

Sit back, wait, and see what the outcome is. Best of luck to all competing for these opportunities.

 

[JAMBO]

So your not a freight driver then I take it, rumours? If that's how you see it then that's fine mate,think if I am honest your way off the mark mate on how freight companies recruit. Total different ball game to pass companies. Best of luck to all the all the externals who would love to become a heavy haul driver. I am stating facts of what I know that the externals that failed the interview 6 month ago have been invited back into the frame. Am I correct in saying all these jobs originally were for the internals? Yes, it was only when they couldn't fill the remaining trainee posts that it went external? As you can imagine the internals were not best pleased, and so management had no option but to let them sit the interview again, do you get where I am coming from?! If there are 50 positions, 10 got through last time say, 30 failed and have now been invited back that only leaves a small percentage for the externals does it not? How you see that as putting externals off is beyond me, I am clearly stating the position. Now if the internals " somehow bombed out again" then yes its a free for all. If the externals get the opportunity then yes go for it and I wish you all the luck. Most big companies recruit from within now and it's only when these positions can not be filled it goes outside. Best of luck guys anyway.

 

[DunfordBridge]

I failed the Stage 1 back in 2003 with Arriva Trains Northern so I am glad of another opportunity to show my worth. I have been applying solidly for the past two years and this is the first real opportunity for a driving position.

 

[WesternAccent]

Hi, I would like to thank everyone who has posted on these forums it's been a great help. I am trying to study for my reactions test but haven't been able to as yet.

I was wondering if anybody had the password/ username for this download?

http://www.krismason.org/files/reactiontest.zip

Or if there's anywhere else I could get it?

Thanks in Advance

WA

 

[at60]

A very simplistic view of the recruitment process.

The internal is a known quantity and so they will be 99% certain that they have recruited the right person because they will know from their previous work record.

By taking on an external they will not know if they are the right type of person until spending £squillions on them just for them to mess up the training because they havent got the natural skills required because they practised all the tests before hand or they fu um make an error as soon as they are out on their own.

I know who I would rather recruit!

The Assesment / interview process is there to weed out unsuitable candidates, it is VERY thorough, and if you've passed it, you've proved you're good enough to start the training. If you get through, fantastic, if you don't then that's bad for all concerned. You don't actually know if you can do it till you start, and that's the same in all walks of life. People left the apprenticeship course I was on because they couldn't handle it, but the majority got through, and became good, competent tradesmen.
I agree that the internal is already a known quantity, & if I was internal I would expect, or even , demand to be given first shot at the job before externals. After that though, if us externals have passed all the tests, & interviews, we're the same going forward, although we won't have the company / depot / route / traction knowledge that the internals already have. So if we can stick with the course, and get passed at the same time as internals, you can't say that we aren't right for the job. In fact, we would actually have had to learn more in the same time period - that alone proves we have the, what you call 'natural skills'
After all, when you, and all the other qualifieds on here got offered your jobs, did you have the natural ability ?

 

[Safety]

Would any of you have paid to train as Rail Operations Group want?

 

[choochoochoo]

those who went through the grilling this week, when did they say you'd find out by ?

is it the same person who does the reactions test as the CBI. Thinking about a sneaky shoe change so that my feet are comfortable for the reactions test but I still look smart for the interview.

also how out of the standard five questions did you get asked ? I'm guessing there isn't time to ask about all five examples.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would any of you have paid to train as Rail Operations Group want?

Do this and your profession goes down the same route as that of pilots.

Lower salaries, people actually paying for the 'privilidge' of working. Great for the TOCs bad for the drivers.

This is off topic but just wanted to throw my two pence in.

 

[Beveridges]

Lower salaries, people actually paying for the 'privilidge' of working

Paying to work - seems to be the way things are going nowadays - after all, a Degree is basically "Paying to work". I should know, I did two of the damn things and I don't think anyone can argue that doing degree coursework and studying for degree exams is not "work".

Jobs outside the rail industry where people "work for free" in the hope that it will lead to something better are also on the rise.

 

[TDF]

is it the same person who does the reactions test as the CBI. Thinking about a sneaky shoe change so that my feet are comfortable for the reactions test but I still look smart for the interview.

I took my shoes off for the reactions test, the footplate pedal is pivoted the opposite way round to that of a pedal in a car for example. So I found it easier to rest my toes on the edge and push down that way, the examiner didn't mind me taking my shoes off.

She was also the person who conducted my interview

 

[choochoochoo]

I took my shoes off for the reactions test, the footplate pedal is pivoted the opposite way round to that of a pedal in a car for example. So I found it easier to rest my toes on the edge and push down that way, the examiner didn't mind me taking my shoes off.

She was also the person who conducted my interview

Thanks TDF, hope it went well for you.

In which case I'll bring my trainers and hopefully they'll be ok for me using them on the reactions test. Think taking my slippers might be a bit too much

 

[FlamTap]

Hi, I would like to thank everyone who has posted on these forums it's been a great help. I am trying to study for my reactions test but haven't been able to as yet.

I was wondering if anybody had the password/ username for this download?

http://www.krismason.org/files/reactiontest.zip

Or if there's anywhere else I could get it?

Thanks in Advance

WA

Try this: http://www.krismason.org/public/reactiontest.zip

 

[TDF]

Thanks TDF, hope it went well for you.

In which case I'll bring my trainers and hopefully they'll be ok for me using them on the reactions test. Think taking my slippers might be a bit too much

I did my assessments with LM in Croydon not in the Watford offices for FLHH, I think any kind of shoes for me wouldn't have worked, it's all down to personal preference. Glad I don't have to do it again!

 

[Marky82]

Hi all, just a quick feedback for you. Sat stage 2 today and its tough going.

3 assessors are waiting for you should you pass you're reactions test before hand. For the reaction test you must stay calm and focused and not hit buttons madly trying to catch up and if you plan on resting your foot on your heel with your toes hovering over the pedal then halfway through the only thing you'll be thinking about is the searing pain shooting through your shins.
If successful then you have a one on one with one of the 3 assessors..... Make sure you breath as its intense!!!

 

[Brinners81]

How were you feelings during the interview marky.why do you think you felt this way? lol. I had loads of that! And your not joking about the painful shins, mine still hurt now! Nice meeting you today. In fact it was a really good Group of lads today, really hope a few of us get through to the next interview!

 

[Marky82]

How were you feelings during the interview marky.why do you think you felt this way? lol. I had loads of that! And your not joking about the painful shins, mine still hurt now! Nice meeting you today. In fact it was a really good Group of lads today, really hope a few of us get through to the next interview!

Hi Brinners, nice meeting you today. Yeah I found the interview very very probing with a lot of "and then what happened" or "how did that make you feel" thrown in.
A word of warning to all yet to take this, if you plan on bending the truth suit the question, it was that intense that they will find you out.

11 of us sat today, should have been 12 but 1 didn't show, and all 11 past the reactions. A really good bunch of lads as well.

I think mine went alright but you never know. Hope you did alright Brinners, did think of you when I could see you getting your grilling.

 

[NinjaJihad]

Bet you're glad that's over Marky. Dreading mine the week after next, I thought it might be an advantage with more time to prepare but on the flip side it is also more time for the nerves to build up!

How fast does the reaction test get? Does it get to a ridiculous speed or can you keep up for the most part. Comforting that most people seem to be passing this particular test.

 

[choochoochoo]

Try this: http://www.krismason.org/public/reactiontest.zip

Thanks for this. Is this the test but obviously without any feedback to the computer to record actual performance.

More to get you used to what to expect on the screen and how you'll be expected to react?