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Trainee drivers Freighliner HH

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Quickthorn

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I also got the dreaded call that I had failed stage 2, The reasons I didn't have enough experience in dealing with an emergency. My first example was the launching of the ships lifeboat to pull a dead body out from the water and organising a medical team to meet us a shore I have dealt with this a lot. My second with a fire on-board (I work as a merchant seamen) Deck mate and a car had set the deck alight. We had to work quickly to put it out and even primed the drencher system if it went further etc etc. How is this not enough experience?. Can I appeal or is that a life lost?

Any positive feedback appreciated I don't expect to go to stage 3 just wanna keep that life I reckon they did me out of.

Your examples seem good, but it might be worth thinking of what your responsibilities were during each emergency. If you acted alone, or were in a position of responsibility, I'd have thought that would give you a strong example. If you were part of a team, or taking orders from someone else in charge, that's not so strong.
 
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bacooke1987

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Brilliant well done. It's at 14:15. What about yours?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry on the 8th aswell
 

Fergie87

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Haha, be nice to put a face to the name. Where you from then Fergie?

It will be good to put a face to the online persona. I am from gravesend, kent so it means I have a 4hr journey up to Leeds and I am going to get a hotel this time. When I went to Crewe I drove up in the morning, took the tests and drove home. I don't fancy that again lol.

Where are you travelling from?
 

bacooke1987

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Yeh that's what I did last time give you abit of prep time and just to stay calm and not worry about the journey. I'm from reading so I got a long journey to. So have you said your be willing to relocate if successful? What's your nearest train crew depot?
 

Fergie87

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Yeh that's what I did last time give you abit of prep time and just to stay calm and not worry about the journey. I'm from reading so I got a long journey to. So have you said your be willing to relocate if successful? What's your nearest train crew depot?

Yeah I will be a lot more relaxed not having to tackle the M25. I am more than happy to relocate, what bout you? The nearest place to me is dagenham about a 30min drive so I wouldn't need to move if I could be based out of there but I'm not going to rely on that happening.
 

bacooke1987

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Yeh I put down I would but I only would move around the south. My nearest is reading but wouldn't mind Bristol Eastleigh or dagenhams quite close
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Fergie does it say who your interview is with? Also anyone who has done stage 3, how long was the interview? Any any other advise. Thanks
 

Fergie87

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I'm not sure if I should be putting up full names or not on an open forum so I'll stick to initials. My interview is with R.H and L.G. Is it the same for you?
 
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The road ends here for me too. Well done to the rest of you. I felt the interview (CBI) was difficult but I wasn't sure what I needed to do to do better so ill ring up for some feedback. Whilst other people mentioned their situations felt appropriate but they didn't pass I too talked about an emergency situation of evacuating 100 passengers off a train in a tunnel and laying detonators on the track in the snow but I guess it's how you talk about yourself. Maybe I didn't vocalise the keywords enough. I'm gutted but I too can confirm I have heard that your attempts are reset in October so anyone else who has failed pick yourself up dust yourself off and get you memories working as when we lot apply for the next set of drivers jobs we're going to be the ones who are telling everyone what the testing is like. Eek!
Good luck with the rest of your application process people
 

notadriver

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Wait a sec LondonMidlandC - you work in a safety critical position on the railway, used examples on the railway for a driving position on the railway and failed the CBI? That doesn't sound right. Ive always thought people in such positions is bus drivers and train guards should be able to bypass the CBI.

Sorry to hear your bad news.
 

DunfordBridge

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Wait a sec LondonMidlandC - you work in a safety critical position on the railway, used examples on the railway for a driving position on the railway and failed the CBI? That doesn't sound right. Ive always thought people in such positions is bus drivers and train guards should be able to bypass the CBI.

Sorry to hear your bad news.

That does sound rather strange, London MC, to say the least. I can only imagine your sense of frustration.

Today I have been contemplating that one of the possible drawbacks with the Criteria Based Interview is that there is an advantage towards those people from certain professions disregarding the provision of being able to include examples from your personal life. Having read your post, this would clearly not appear to be the case.

I am assuming that you evacuated the train in your capacity as a guard, to be applying as a trainee driver. I was a bit puzzled as to why the evacuation took place in a tunnel but as a guard, you may not have been directly responsible for where the train was stopped. For all I know, it might have been a very long tunnel and it was unavoidable.
 

NinjaJihad

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Would be very, very surprised if you failed the emergency question LondonmidlandC. Would be interesting to know the feedback. As someone else said earlier, the CBI seems to be a bit of a lottery. I was grilled every which way but loose and had to provide numerous examples yet a Freightliner internal (Who was a genuinely nice guy by the way) had a different interviewer and did not have to deviate once from the answers he had written down.
 

JAMBO

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Yeah that is a funny one, laying dets, and working in a railway environment and you fail! What exactly do they want?! Saying that there were a bunch of internals failed 6 month ago,
Shunters who have been on the railway years, talking about derailments and such, basically giving all the bull and stringing the interview out so it sounds great! I still believe its all a big money spinning scam and they can basically pick who they like, if your face fits and who you know has always been an issue on the railway. I mean how much do OPC charge freightliner per person to sit these tests? Someone is quids in ?? It's no wonder HH were going spare at the amount of internals bombing out.
 

DunfordBridge

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Yeah that is a funny one, laying dets, and working in a railway environment and you fail! What exactly do they want?! Saying that there were a bunch of internals failed 6 month ago,
Shunters who have been on the railway years, talking about derailments and such, basically giving all the bull and stringing the interview out so it sounds great! I still believe its all a big money spinning scam and they can basically pick who they like, if your face fits and who you know has always been an issue on the railway. I mean how much do OPC charge freightliner per person to sit these tests? Someone is quids in ?? It's no wonder HH were going spare at the amount of internals bombing out.

How long have the OPC (Occupational Psychology Centre) been running the show? Their list of clients is numerous as exemplified by the following link, http://www.theopc.co.uk/aboutus/.

I was wondering if there was actually any TOC which does not use the services of the OPC these days as many of the major players in the UK rail industry run several franchises and you would imagine that they would have their own resources.

Everytime I go for an interview or similar for different railway positions, I am spending something in the region of £100-200 for a negative result. Were it for the fact I have had my second strike, I would be hesitant to spend this kind of money again as all roads seem to go to Rome, almost quite literally in my case.
 
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I feel i need to explain more. I was on my iPad earlier so wasn't up for writing too much. I think maybe the two situations i chose to talk about earlier yes they were ok but I was told in answer to two other questions that my explanations weren't good enough.
For the first question about working to procedures i talked about the dispatch procedure at Birmingham new street as I do it many times a day every working day of the week so I felt like that should have been a relevant procedure but when it came to working alone I was told that a senior conductor doesn't work alone as there is always a driver at the front. I didn't it push it too hard but she said we'll come back to it try and think of another time where you have worked for long periods alone (i just don't really)...... brain freeze! I ended up talking about working in my home studio recording music, thats all I had left. Without lying its the only other thing I do alone and I can see there are no overlapping correlations between playing piano and driving a train.
And the last one solving a problem I talked about a time i worked as part of a team to clear 100s of passengers out of a station because all the lines were blocked ironically by failed freight trains and a fatality. I was told by her that I didn't solve the problem and I needed to think of another example so basically only 2 out of my 5 questions answered were accepted. I literally couldn't think of another situation where i have solved a problem. It was ridiculous, i ended up talking about fixing up the house because a sale had fallen through and managing to get it sold in the end. It was humiliating. Even when i think now I can't think of a problem that i have solved? can some of you guys give me an example of what you used. everything that creates a problem usually has a simple solution like a broken down car just requires a phone call.
All in all the only thing I can think of is I do ok as a guard, maybe I'm not cut out to be a driver. I still love working on the railways so it's all good. Maybe you might be able to make something more of what I have said now. I hope its coherent I hate typing long passages..
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That does sound rather strange, London MC, to say the least. I can only imagine your sense of frustration.

Today I have been contemplating that one of the possible drawbacks with the Criteria Based Interview is that there is an advantage towards those people from certain professions disregarding the provision of being able to include examples from your personal life. Having read your post, this would clearly not appear to be the case.

I am assuming that you evacuated the train in your capacity as a guard, to be applying as a trainee driver. I was a bit puzzled as to why the evacuation took place in a tunnel but as a guard, you may not have been directly responsible for where the train was stopped. For all I know, it might have been a very long tunnel and it was unavoidable.

Just wanted to clarify that the train stopped in the tunnel as the tunnel is quite long (if you know the four tunnels from exiting Birmingham new street towards five ways there are four long tunnels) we got a branch wrapped round the pantograph and lost all power and couldn't reconnect. the evacuation took place on to another train going in the opposite direction via one set of doors and a ladder (cue action music). Really good experience but not enough as it seems also according to the rule book this is a controlled evacuation not and emergency though I could be splitting hairs!. I'm on the list to receive feedback so who knows I might get an answer. Probably one that will make me slap my forehead. everything is so obvious when you know the answer. lol Anyway like I said I'm still a guard and it means I get to reads books in the back cab instead of concentrating on signals ha ha.
 

DunfordBridge

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but when it came to working alone I was told that a senior conductor doesn't work alone as there is always a driver at the front.

Just wanted to clarify that the train stopped in the tunnel as the tunnel is quite long (if you know the four tunnels from exiting Birmingham new street towards five ways there are four long tunnels) we got a branch wrapped round the pantograph and lost all power and couldn't reconnect. the evacuation took place on to another train going in the opposite direction via one set of doors and a ladder (cue action music). Really good experience but not enough as it seems also according to the rule book this is a controlled evacuation not and emergency though I could be splitting hairs!.

Not sure if I really buy that retort about not working alone as there is always a driver at the front. It is not as if you are sat at the front holding hands with driver and enjoying the view together. In fact I would imagine most of the communication would be through buzzer codes. Is it page 34 of module TW1 which explains the various codes such as the one you sound when you need to have an actual verbal communication on the phone? Furthermore, I would have thought you could not go in the front end without a cab pass or say if there was a failure of AWS, for example, and the driver required assistance for the sighting of signals and line speeds.

I know Five Ways and Bournville but I cannot remember the four tunnels although I travelled that way to Cardiff University before I started going through the Hope Valley to Manchester. That example was quite interesting as I was curious as to the difference between a controlled evacuation and one that is uncontrolled. I had this mental image of people staggering around in the dark in the Severn tunnel.

I used to have a home studio myself and I can confirm that it is a quite solitary activity. In fact I sometimes miss my Yamaha An1x synthesiser.

Call me a philistine but I think that rather than reading a book, I would sooner watch signals, especially the green ones.
 
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notadriver

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Not sure if I really buy that retort about not working alone as there is always a driver at the front. It is not as if you are sat at the front holding hands with driver and enjoying the view together. In fact I would imagine most of the communication would be through buzzer codes. Is it page 34 of module TW1 which explains the various codes such as the one you sound when you need to have an actual verbal communication on the phone? Furthermore, I would have thought you could not go in the front end without a cab pass or say if there was a failure of AWS, for example, and the driver required assistance for the sighting of signals and line speeds.

Personally I think the retort about not working alone was to put you under pressure to see how you would react. You either have to stand your ground or come up with a new example quickly.

I was curious about one thing you mentioned Dunsfordbridge - if say there was a failure of the AWS, how would the conductor assist the driver with the sighting of signals and line speeds?
 

Beveridges

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OPC is a con, they *want* to fail you in the Structured Interview, the more they fail, the more money for them.

The SI is the only place where they can do it. In the computer and paper tests they have no choice.
 
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OPC is a con, they *want* to fail you in the Structured Interview, the more they fail, the more money for them.

The SI is the only place where they can do it. In the computer and paper tests they have no choice.

do OPC charge on a 'per person' basis? or would it be more feasible that they have a fixed price contract with the relevant TOC?

just interested to know why its in their interests? I don't see a financial gain for them.
 

choochoochoo

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do OPC charge on a 'per person' basis? or would it be more feasible that they have a fixed price contract with the relevant TOC?

just interested to know why its in their interests? I don't see a financial gain for them.

if you pass everyone, then you lose revenue you could have made on resits !!
 

JAMBO

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Should imagine its a few hundred per applicant easily, so I could see why HH were miffed that quite a few trainees bombed out at interview stage and now have to go back again. Like I said its a business. Why pass everyone when the OPC can double there earnings failing half of them knowing fine well they will be back in 6 month for another bash!
 

GB

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Should imagine its a few hundred per applicant easily, so I could see why HH were miffed that quite a few trainees bombed out at interview stage and now have to go back again. Like I said its a business. Why pass everyone when the OPC can double there earnings failing half of them knowing fine well they will be back in 6 month for another bash!

Its not just FLHH, GBRf have been having the exact same problem.
 

choochoochoo

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Should imagine its a few hundred per applicant easily, so I could see why HH were miffed that quite a few trainees bombed out at interview stage and now have to go back again. Like I said its a business. Why pass everyone when the OPC can double there earnings failing half of them knowing fine well they will be back in 6 month for another bash!

Are the OPC even regulated? I bet they're not.
 

notadriver

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If you're going to go down that route you might as well say the entire process is flawed - which I don't think it is. I
 

DunfordBridge

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Personally I think the retort about not working alone was to put you under pressure to see how you would react. You either have to stand your ground or come up with a new example quickly.

I was curious about one thing you mentioned Dunsfordbridge - if say there was a failure of the AWS, how would the conductor assist the driver with the sighting of signals and line speeds?

As far as I can remember, I believe I read in module TW5 possibly that if there was a failure or isolation of the AWS that a competent individual had to be present in the leading cab verifying the aspects of signals and linespeeds in the absence of cues from the AWS. I think there may have been a further stipulation that the speed of the train may have had to be restricted to 45mph but I have not read any rule book modules recently.
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If you're going to go down that route you might as well say the entire process is flawed - which I don't think it is. I

Not sure about the entire process but I find it noteworthy that the CBI is strangely low profile in the documentation I have read about the new train driver assessment methods. There seems to be more emphasis on the Situational Judgement Exercise, the Multi-Modal Interview and the Written Communication Test.
 
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