Trainee driver training

[Topgun]

Can anyone tell me if driver training for NXEA or any other TOC is residential or do you have to sort out accommodation yourself??

Bearing in mind that the training takes between 9-12 months, it could be very costly taking up lodgings!!

Thanks.

 

[SWT Driver]

You pay for your own lodgings.

The only time a company pays for your lodgings is when you get a lodging turn (namely when you're a fully qualified driver), which nowadays is a rarity apart from freight companies.

 

[73110]

Can anyone tell me if driver training for NXEA or any other TOC is residential or do you have to sort out accommodation yourself??

Bearing in mind that the training takes between 9-12 months, it could be very costly taking up lodgings!!

Thanks.

Not sure if I read this right.

When a company take you on as a trainee they usually take you on at a certain depot. Lets take Kings Cross for example. If you were taken on by whoever rail based at KX then you have to make your own way there every day. Lodging simply doesn't come into it you just live near the depot you will be based at.

If the training is at another station, for arguments sake at Waterloo and your based at KX, then you will book on every day at your home depot then pass to the training centre. At the end of the day you pass straight home. An example might be Brighton trainees passing to Selhurst in south London every day to the training school there.

Or have I read the question wrong?

 

[SWT Driver]

Basically what Topgun has asked is does the training school have overnight apartments or the like, I suppose you could say a bit like a boarding school & the answer is NO.

If you want cheap accommodation then look for a Travelodge or Premier Inn near to it, you can if you book far enough in front a room for as little as £20 pn.

 

[GB]

Seems to work a bit different on the freight side. All our training is done in one location and if you live more than an hour away, the company will put you up in a Travel Lodge (or similar) at the companies expense where you can also claim about £15 per night for a meal and about £25 per night lodging allowance. We obviously have it far too easy!

 

[Topgun]

What I'm getting at here is that I live in Lincolnshire, and I have applied for a job in Ilford.
This means that if I get the job then I will have to get lodgings in Ilford. We're talking about £70 per week minimum for a room. Add food on top of that and you're talking serious money over the length of a 9-12 month training period. I was hoping that NXEA might have a coupkle of rooms available for people who live a long way from the depot whilst training.

 

[GB]

If you live in Lincolnshire and have applied for a job at Illford, what do you expect to do when your training is complete?

Generally if you are applying for a job at a depot, you are usually required to live within 45-60 minutes of the depot and be able to get there at anytime of the day. If you can do this once you have passed out why cant you do it for training?

Are you planning to relocate?

 

[Topgun]

Hi,
Yes I would relocate to Essex once training was completed.
My problem is the cost of accommodation during the 9 months training.

 

[royaloak]

Most firms wont even consider you if you live more than 1 hour away from the depot.
Did it say anything on the advert, in all honesty that is your problem, why apply for a job (the training) that you wont be able to commute to.

 

[GB]

Hi,
Yes I would relocate to Essex once training was completed.
My problem is the cost of accommodation during the 9 months training.

Unfortunately then it is a case of having to take the short term pain for the long term gain.

 

[ungreat]

Thats quite a distance...unfortunately for you everyone is right!

Gonna have to put up with the travel by the sounds of it,but,before you do the actual practical handling,I would STRONGLY suggest that you have some digs near to where you are based ,as you will be doing actual diagrams under the instruction of a minder driver,and thats gonna mean shift work.

 

[JammyJames08]

Can anyone tell me if driver training for NXEA or any other TOC is residential or do you have to sort out accommodation yourself??

Bearing in mind that the training takes between 9-12 months, it could be very costly taking up lodgings!!

Thanks.

So why can't you apply for any of the companies in the north then?

 

[73110]

Hi,
Yes I would relocate to Essex once training was completed.
My problem is the cost of accommodation during the 9 months training.

Sorry to disappoint you but they will not take you on as things are at the moment. They will expect you to move before the training starts or you won't be offered a job I am afraid. You would have to move to Essex before training commenced, not once training was completed.

Have you even had an interview yet?

 

[SWT Driver]

You have to be careful about jumping ship early in your driving career.

Some companies will now sue you for training costs if you leave your position within the first 2 or 3 years, which is the length of time that they reckon it takes for you to recoup their training costs.

Got a spare £50k?

 

[royaloak]

Hopefully somebody will fall foul of this who nearly worked with us eh SWTD, serve the ++++ right.

 

[JammyJames08]

You have to be careful about jumping ship early in your driving career.

Some companies will now sue you for training costs if you leave your position within the first 2 or 3 years, which is the length of time that they reckon it takes for you to recoup their training costs.

Got a spare £50k?

What about the people who don't grasp the job and don't pass out?

 

[73110]

Jammy, it's pretty obvious that if you went through the training and failed at the end then there is nothing anyone can do about it. The problem they used to have was training drivers up who once they had a key used to go to another company for whatever reason. I known this happened a lot on Southern and they introduced something like a bond that you had to sign keeping you with them for a certain amount of time. If you moved they could claim that money back from you somehow. Perhaps someone from Southern could tell us exactly how it works.

 

[JammyJames08]

Fair Enough

 

[Flyboy]

Most firms wont even consider you if you live more than 1 hour away from the depot.

It's a good job in doesn't work like that in aviation as the Heathrow-based pilot that commutes from Oz would be well and truly stuffed!!

Seriously though, this is the 21st Century and we have a highly mobile workforce, to reject an applicant because he/she lives in excess of 1 hour away is ridiculous! The railway industry isn't that outdated is it?

To explain that a little more, as long as the applicant can guarantee that he/she will take appropriate steps (at his/her own expense) to be within 1 hour's travelling time (maximum) of the depot when on duty or on call, then it shouldn't matter in the slightest where he/she lives when going through the initial selection process, or indeed when off duty when employed. The bottom line should be that your work life should not be affected by your choice of where you live.

What happens when you're employed by a Company and decide to move home to somewhere that maybe in excess of 1 hour away, are they going to dismiss you - not a chance!

 

[GB]

It may well have something to do with length of turns and turn around times. if you are on a 12hr diagram and you live 2 hours from the depot you will not get suitable rest between turns.

Then again it may just be a filtering method for the hundreads of applications.

 

[dk1]

NX dont like paying for sandwiches let alone accomodation. There used to be a policy of living within a reasonable distance of your home depot due to problems of getting in for the unsociable hours traincrew work entails. NX will provide you with free travel on EA/c2c with your duty pass but thats your lot!

 

[73110]

Seriously though, this is the 21st Century and we have a highly mobile workforce, to reject an applicant because he/she lives in excess of 1 hour away is ridiculous! The railway industry isn't that outdated is it?

Yes it is. I think one company asks for max of 45mins away from your base depot.

Most are an hour, It has always been like this.

To go with the "Highly Mobile Workforce" you also get highly mobile traffic jams, train delays etc etc.

 

[Flyboy]

If that's the case then it's wrong. What happens, for example, if an applicant is in the process of moving to an area which is close to the depot of the TOC being applied to, but the address on the application is several Counties away? Will the application be rejected by HR on the grounds of location before he even gets a chance to explain he's relocating? sounds like it from what's been said so far - and that's daft!

73110 - I agree and disagree - your point about traffic jams doesn't really wash; traffic jams are not selective and affect everyone stuck in them equally, whether you've joined the tailback from hundreds of miles away or at the end of your street. As an extreme scenario just consider how long it would take to drive a very short distance across London during rush hour.

As I said above though, the bottom line should be that you must be able to guarantee that where you live will not affect your work. Expanding on my point above regarding aviation, I have several friends based at Heathrow and Gatwick airports that commute from Scotland and Belfast.

 

[73110]

Of course it's wrong but that is the way it is, always has been!

Regarding traffic jams, did you see the smiley at the end of the sentence!!

I take it your in Aviation, judging by your posts recently I take it you contribute to pprune!?!?!?!

 

[Flyboy]

Smiley face noted.

Yes I'm in aviation but given the continued success of Ryanair and the problems that's causing for staff throughout the industry I'd rather not be.

As far as PPRuNe is concerned, yes I'm a long term member but nowadays only take a brief peek once every couple of months or so, it's not what it was!

 

[driver9000]

They want you to live close to your depot to reduce the risk of fatigue caused by excessive travelling distance to work and it impacting on your rest periods (minimum 12hrs). If you are on a 9h45 job and live over an hour away from your home depot then it adds to your working day possibly ending up with over 12hrs away from your home. The companies are right to impose restrictions like this for applicants and its certainly not a case of the railway being outdated, this ruling is a fairly recent (past 5-10yrs) thing at the end of the day they have to consider safety and dont want drivers turning up for work without proper rest as it has implications for everyone if things go wrong. The company I work for has a 30min rule regarding home-depot travel allowance. The aviation industry works differently to the railway and I believe some aircraft have staff areas that include bunks for sleepy pilots. Trains are driven manually under constant concentration unlike an aeroplane which by my limited knowledge flies under automatic guidance for the most part, how can a driver be expected to maintain 100% concentration if (s)he is tired out by excesive travel to/from work.

To answer the original question, some companies will pay for overnight accomodation for trainees who are attending a training school away from their home depot. This will normally include a meal allowance, but once you have passed from the school to your depot for practical handling the accomodation ceases.

 

[Flyboy]

That's a valid point, fatigue is very real problem. However, I disagree totally that "companies are right to impose restrictions like this for applicants." For example, if an EWS driver who lives in Doncaster were to apply to both First Scotrail and NXEA, with plans to relocate upon being awarded either of the positions, are you suggesting that his application should be binned before he even gets the chance to explain that he will relocate?

 

[driver9000]

A qualified driver applying to another company becausethey are moving is a different matter to the thread which is relating to a fresh trainee off the street. They already have a proven railway record, something the trainee doesnt and as such an unknown quantity,their travel distance to work needs to be taken into accoun. Its not a perfect system but mitigation against incident and public liability mean these restrictions exist, each company has diffrrent interpretations. Its frustrating for people who actually want to drive trains and cant due to where they live but after incidents involving fatigue as a factor its meant that this guidance came to be

 

[ungreat]

When I joined WAGN (now FCC)several years ago from EWS I got offered the job even though I still lived in North Derbyshire at the time,and the vacancy was at KX,so it must be a recentish ruling..I relocated with the help of a £1000 loan from WAGN for removals and a rent bond on a private house in Peterborough.

Having said that,I wasnt a trainee,but even qualified drivers need some retraining if they switch company because of traction and route knowledge.

 

[Flyboy]

Let's take this back a step, on page 1 of this thread royaloak said :

Most firms wont even consider you if you live more than 1 hour away from the depot.

....and then just below that 73110 said :

Sorry to disappoint you but they will not take you on as things are at the moment. They will expect you to move before the training starts or you won't be offered a job I am afraid. You would have to move to Essex before training commenced, not once training was completed.

Obviously those are just the opinions of royaloak and 73110, but if actual recruitment policy reflects what these guys have said then that is wrong, and that is what I've reflected upon.

A qualified driver applying to another company becausethey are moving is a different matter to the thread which is relating to a fresh trainee off the street.

That's not really what I said above, Mr EWS Driver particularly wants to work for one of two Companies and will move AFTER he's awarded either job, he's not applying solely because he wants to move, he's applying because he wants the job.

In regard to trainee vs qualified status, of course it's a different matter, but ONLY in the regard that one is a trainee and the other is qualified; as such they are most unlikely to be played off against each other during a single selection process, Companies will generally recruit one type or the other, this voids the direct comparison between "unknown quantity" and "proven railway record".

In the spirit of adding to the debate instead of just slagging off another person's views, I certainly hope that no one with driver9000's attitude to recruitment works in an HR department! Poor 22 year old John Smith living with his parents in Bradford and trying to get into FCC would have had his CV thrown in the bin before he's even had the chance to explain that he's got a new girlfriend in Cambridge that he'd rather like to move in with!

(For clarification John Smith and his girlfriend are purely fictitious and bear no resemblance to any known persons, living or dead.)

EDIT - just read ungreat's post, it seems that there is some common sense in HR departments out there.