Trainee Driver Learning Structure

[Need2]

Hi, question for established drivers.
I know time lengths and order might vary but what is the 'normal' pattern of driver training?
What do you do, what order do you do it in and how long does each part take? Start of training to becoming qualified?
As I said I know you cannot be 100% accurate, just a decent idea would be of help.
Thanks

 

[Bromley boy]

Hi, question for established drivers.
I know time lengths and order might vary but what is the 'normal' pattern of driver training?
What do you do, what order do you do it in and how long does each part take? Start of training to becoming qualified?
As I said I know you cannot be 100% accurate, just a decent idea would be of help.
Thanks

At my place, the course broke down as follows:

CLASSROOM STAGE (3 months)

PTS course and assessment - one week
Rules (5*assessments) - 8 - 10 weeks depending on Xmas etc getting in the way

PRACTICAL STAGE (6 - 12 months)

Traction course and assessment - 4 - 5 weeks
Train Handling/Route learning (the fun bit!) 6 - 9 months from getting an instructor. This requires a min of 225 hours driving, 40 night hours. Most people were around the 300 hour mark in practice.
Final assessment - 1 - 2 weeks

The whole thing can be as little as 9 months with a fair wind behind you. In my intake, the quickest qualified in 10 months from starting. The longest was around 16 months due to waiting for a DI, assessment being delayed for weeks due to a manager being unavailable.

The classroom phase is pretty predictable but the later stages depend on factors outside your control can be quite variable depending on:
- how long it takes you to accrue the hours you need (e.g. Training in the summer can make it hard to accrue enough night time hours)
- availability of instructors and their shift patterns/annual leave (I had a 3 month wait for a DI spent doing front end turns, which can get pretty soul destroying)
- how long you wait for your manager to be available to assess you

I would also say all of the above will be very dependent on TOC, depot and, even within your depot, can vary according to your individual instructor and manager. It's a case of how long is a bit of string, unfortunately.

You should definitely budget for unexpected delays etc. keeping you on the trainee wage for longer than you might expect.

 

[12guard4]

At my place, the course broke down as follows:

CLASSROOM STAGE (3 months)

PTS course and assessment - one week
Rules (5*assessments) - 8 - 10 weeks depending on Xmas etc getting in the way

PRACTICAL STAGE (6 - 12 months)

Traction course and assessment - 4 - 5 weeks
Train Handling/Route learning (the fun bit!) 6 - 9 months from getting an instructor. This requires a min of 225 hours driving, 40 night hours. Most people were around the 300 hour mark in practice.
Final assessment - 1 - 2 weeks

The whole thing can be as little as 9 months with a fair wind behind you. In my intake, the quickest qualified in 10 months from starting. The longest was around 16 months due to waiting for a DI, assessment being delayed for weeks due to a manager being unavailable.

The classroom phase is pretty predictable but the later stages depend on factors outside your control can be quite variable depending on:
- how long it takes you to accrue the hours you need (e.g. Training in the summer can make it hard to accrue enough night time hours)
- availability of instructors and their shift patterns/annual leave (I had a 3 month wait for a DI spent doing front end turns, which can get pretty soul destroying)
- how long you wait for your manager to be available to assess you

I would also say all of the above will be very dependent on TOC, depot and, even within your depot, can vary according to your individual instructor and manager. It's a case of how long is a bit of string, unfortunately.

You should definitely budget for unexpected delays etc. keeping you on the trainee wage for longer than you might expect.

This is very similar to my place, however our trainee rate is for 12 months, followed by an increase for another 12 months and finally the full salary available after 2 years. So in theory you could be a trainee on the full rate although it usually doesn't take 2 years.

 

[Need2]

At my place, the course broke down as follows:

CLASSROOM STAGE (3 months)

PTS course and assessment - one week
Rules (5*assessments) - 8 - 10 weeks depending on Xmas etc getting in the way

PRACTICAL STAGE (6 - 12 months)

Traction course and assessment - 4 - 5 weeks
Train Handling/Route learning (the fun bit!) 6 - 9 months from getting an instructor. This requires a min of 225 hours driving, 40 night hours. Most people were around the 300 hour mark in practice.
Final assessment - 1 - 2 weeks

The whole thing can be as little as 9 months with a fair wind behind you. In my intake, the quickest qualified in 10 months from starting. The longest was around 16 months due to waiting for a DI, assessment being delayed for weeks due to a manager being unavailable.

The classroom phase is pretty predictable but the later stages depend on factors outside your control can be quite variable depending on:
- how long it takes you to accrue the hours you need (e.g. Training in the summer can make it hard to accrue enough night time hours)
- availability of instructors and their shift patterns/annual leave (I had a 3 month wait for a DI spent doing front end turns, which can get pretty soul destroying)
- how long you wait for your manager to be available to assess you

I would also say all of the above will be very dependent on TOC, depot and, even within your depot, can vary according to your individual instructor and manager. It's a case of how long is a bit of string, unfortunately.

You should definitely budget for unexpected delays etc. keeping you on the trainee wage for longer than you might expect.

Thanks for the info, more interested in the time taken for training at the moment than the pay. Your answer give a decent outlook as to what I should be facing.
Although the pay structure, ie when you rate increases is interesting.
Just need to pass medical next week for a start in May with GTR. (Thameslink)
At the DMI the guy just said you get 'X' while training and 'Y' when qualified so I don't know if its full rate when qualified?
On the pay subject, does anyone know if Sunday working is included or do you get a premium rate?

 

[Newtothis16]

Hi Bromleyboy

Are you able to tell me what the classroom assessments are like, exams etc. Pass rate, are they multiple choice, with studying can it be picked up ok, has/did anyone fail on your course and what happened to them?

I'm worried that I leave my job fail an exam and then it's goodbye no job and I'm stuffed :-/ or do they do their best to help you through if you have the right attitude

 

[Bromley boy]

Thanks for the info, more interested in the time taken for training at the moment than the pay. Your answer give a decent outlook as to what I should be facing.
Although the pay structure, ie when you rate increases is interesting.
Just need to pass medical next week for a start in May with GTR.
At the DMI the guy just said you get 'X' while training and 'Y' when qualified so I don't know if its full rate when qualified?
On the pay subject, does anyone know if Sunday working is included or do you get a premium rate?

Congrats on the offer!

At GTR you (rightly in my view) go straight onto full drivers rate from the moment you get your key - we have to wait a year on a reduced rate which is a bit of a sore point! From what I've heard there's been a chronic shortage of DIs at GTR so you may find yourself front ending for a while.

Sundays are outside for GTR, unless they've changed the terms for new entrants I'd imagine that will stay the same for you.

 

[Need2]

Congrats on the offer!
Sundays are outside for GTR, unless they've changed the terms for new entrants I'd imagine that will stay the same for you.

Thanks mate, can't wait even though I'm not through the door yet!
What does outside mean?
Any idea where the training would be? (I'm down for Ashford)?

 

[VWCampervanman]

From what I've heard there's been a chronic shortage of DIs at GTR so you may find yourself front ending for a while.

I have recently started my driver training for GTR , but am actually being trained by Southeastern , This is because of the large number of new drivers required by GTR in a relative short period of time.
The pay structure is interesting , from what I understand, The Southeastern trainee drivers do have to wait a year after qualifying for the full salary, but their salary does rise after they have completed certain stages along the way ( After rules being passed ?? )
So if you are applying for GTR ,dont be surprised if you actually end up being trained by SE . So you may not have such a long wait for the DI.
There will be an addition time at the end after I am qualified that will be needed to learn the GTR route that I will finally be working , but I will be on full salary so It wont be an issue.

 

[VWCampervanman]

.....

 

[Bromley boy]

Hi Bromleyboy

Are you able to tell me what the classroom assessments are like, exams etc. Pass rate, are they multiple choice, with studying can it be picked up ok, has/did anyone fail on your course and what happened to them?

I'm worried that I leave my job fail an exam and then it's goodbye no job and I'm stuffed :-/ or do they do their best to help you through if you have the right attitude

All the written assessments are multiple choice, traction includes a practical walk around of the units you are being assessed on. I wouldn't say rules is particularly difficult but you do have quite a lot of material to learn in a short space of time. Your final assessment will include rules and traction written papers all other again, and a few days driving with your DM assessing you.

I would say go in with a positive attitude, make the most of the group you're in, help each other out, and be prepared to spend a bit of time revising/consolidating on your own. Make sure you are able to commit to the course, minimise outside distractions even if this means sacrificing social life, family time etc.

In my group, 8 of us commenced the course, 5 ended up with keys. 2 went during the rules phase, 1 sadly was unsuccessful at the handling stage. I think you're quite right - people who make an effort and just miss the pass mark are more likely to be given another go than people who display the wrong attitude, these tend to be weeded out quickly. Of the people who went during rules, 1 had clearly made no effort to learn the material and had a bad attitude. One took too much time off during the course and was removed.

We all felt sorry for the guy who went during handling. He had a great attitude but struggled with the practical driving. He was given two attempts at his final assessment and sadly the decision was then made by the company not to continue.

Overall all, so long as you go in with the right approach, you should be fine.

 

[Bromley boy]

Thanks mate, can't wait even though I'm not through the door yet!
What does outside mean?
Any idea where the training would be? (I'm down for Ashford)?

Sorry, Sundays outside means your Sundays are outside the working week - ie you aren't committed to work them and will be paid extra for doing so. At TOCs where Sundays are inside Sunday is just another working day and you get no additional pay for working them.

You may well end up being trained at Orpington or Ashford by Southeastern, if you're due to join GTR at Ashford, as the GTR depot isn't up and running yet (Southeastern have training centres at Orpington and Ashford). The GTR/Southeastern training is in a bit of a state of flux at the moment.

 

[Bromley boy]

There will be an addition time at the end after I am qualified that will be needed to learn the GTR route that I will finally be working , but I will be on full salary so It wont be an issue.

That's by far the best way of doing it. Being paid the full amount and then doing route learning without financial pressure to rush.

I'd imagine Southeastern DIs can teach you Ashford/Gillingham/Sevenoakes - Bedford, the rest will need to be done by GTR.

 

[NickR]

I didn't realise with GTR you went to full salary on getting your key. I thought it was a staggered rise.

Need2 are you on the 8th May course? I've been told I'm pencilled in for it but still waiting to complete a risk assessment.

 

[dknight05]

That's great information on training , cheers !
I'm due to start on the 8th of May for GTR too., Got my medical this Monday

 

[djsmith200]

All the written assessments are multiple choice, traction includes a practical walk around of the units you are being assessed on. I wouldn't say rules is particularly difficult but you do have quite a lot of material to learn in a short space of time. Your final assessment will include rules and traction written papers all other again, and a few days driving with your DM assessing you.

I would say go in with a positive attitude, make the most of the group you're in, help each other out, and be prepared to spend a bit of time revising/consolidating on your own. Make sure you are able to commit to the course, minimise outside distractions even if this means sacrificing social life, family time etc.

In my group, 8 of us commenced the course, 5 ended up with keys. 2 went during the rules phase, 1 sadly was unsuccessful at the handling stage. I think you're quite right - people who make an effort and just miss the pass mark are more likely to be given another go than people who display the wrong attitude, these tend to be weeded out quickly. Of the people who went during rules, 1 had clearly made no effort to learn the material and had a bad attitude. One took too much time off during the course and was removed.

Sorry to hear that mate!?! What do you do know then?!?

 

[El-Alamein]

I have been "pencilled" in on the 17th May Course if anyone's on that?

Bromley Boy you say you failed at the handling stage but I was informed that you get 2 attempts at everything? is this the case and if not how many attempts do you get as I hear the pass mark is something along the lines of 90% (by this I mean you have to pass with 90% on all test)

 

[Bromley boy]

I have been "pencilled" in on the 17th May Course if anyone's on that?

Bromley Boy you say you failed at the handling stage but I was informed that you get 2 attempts at everything? is this the case and if not how many attempts do you get as I hear the pass mark is something along the lines of 90% (by this I mean you have to pass with 90% on all test)

Sorry there was a miscommunication there, I fortunately passed everything first time. My last post was saying, of the people who failed, 2 went during rules, 1 during handling (reading it back the 1 looks like an I!)

The final written exam is a 90% passmark. The exams during the course are the same, but they don't mind people getting marks in the 80s on these so long as you get over 90 in the final one.

One of those who went during rules failed the last exam by a big margin and had been borderline on the earlier tests so I don't think got another crack at it. They seem to look at each case individually.

As I say don't worry about it, it's really not that difficult. But just be aware they are serious about expecting high standards.

 

[El-Alamein]

Sorry there was a miscommunication there, I fortunately passed everything first time. My last post was saying, of the people who failed, 2 went during rules, 1 during handling (reading it back the 1 looks like an I!)

The final written exam is a 90% passmark. The exams during the course are the same, but they don't mind people getting marks in the 80s on these so long as you get over 90 in the final one.

One of those who went during rules failed the last exam by a big margin and had been borderline on the earlier tests so I don't think got another crack. They seem to look at each case individually.

As I say don't worry about it, it's really not that difficult. But just be aware they are serious about expecting high standards.

Ahh I see thank you for clarifying that. I plan on passing everything and putting in the effort as its been a long journey to this point alone. The same as many before and indeed after me.

I am looking forward to the course just a bit apprehensive when it comes to test but im sure with the right amount of effort and time I wont have to worry.

thanks Bromley Boy

 

[ComUtoR]

Bromley Boy you say you failed at the handling stage but I was informed that you get 2 attempts at everything?

You are not guaranteed a second attempt at any stage. As Bromley Boy rightly points out, attitudes go a long way. If you failed at any stage and didn't have the right attitude or was off by a wide margin, you can be removed. Someone on the current GTR course was removed recently. It will be up to GTR if he gets a second go.

With the modular course there is still a pass mark on the interim tests but they are low. From a conversation I had with one of the trainers recently you have to pass one of the more important modules as well as the final one.

 

[Need2]

Sorry, Sundays outside means your Sundays are outside the working week - ie you aren't committed to work them and will be paid extra for doing so. At TOCs where Sundays are inside Sunday is just another working day and you get no additional pay for working them.

That clears it up, thanks.

You may well end up being trained at Orpington or Ashford by Southeastern, if you're due to join GTR at Ashford, as the GTR depot isn't up and running yet (Southeastern have training centres at Orpington and Ashford). The GTR/Southeastern training is in a bit of a state of flux at the moment.

Training at Orpington would be a right bonus, I live a 10 minute walk away.
I applied for Gillingham and just missed out on a vacancy at Orpington (didn't know there were any!) and now been given Ashford.

Need2 are you on the 8th May course? I've been told I'm pencilled in for it but still waiting to complete a risk assessment.

Yes mate, medical allowing!

I'm due to start on the 8th of May for GTR too., Got my medical this Monday

Might see you on the 8th then, can you come back on here after your medical and just tell us how it went, what to expect?

 

[NickR]

Training at Orpington would be fantastic - I only live in Sidcup!

 

[Need2]

Training at Orpington would be fantastic - I only live in Sidcup!

Would be even better to work from there. A 45 mile road trip, 1 hour train journey (Ashford) or a 10 minute walk! (Orpington)
Did you know they had vacancies at Orpington, I certainly didn't and never saw any advertisements for it?

 

[NickR]

I'd heard they did but like you never saw any vacancies. I'm assuming that at some point in the future you may be able to transfer there. At this point I'd just be grateful for a contract in my hands!

 

[Need2]

I'd heard they did but like you never saw any vacancies. I'm assuming that at some point in the future you may be able to transfer there. At this point I'd just be grateful for a contract in my hands!

Quite agree, I'm used to commuting further so it doesn't phase me.
Just want to see the contract now

 

[Yellowcupra]

I'm starting on the 10th May. Anyone else?

 

[VWCampervanman]

That's by far the best way of doing it. Being paid the full amount and then doing route learning without financial pressure to rush.

I'd imagine Southeastern DIs can teach you Ashford/Gillingham/Sevenoakes - Bedford, the rest will need to be done by GTR.

As far as I am aware , that is what will happen.

 

[dknight05]

Might see you on the 8th then, can you come back on here after your medical and just tell us how it went, what to expect?[/QUOTE]

Yes sure ,no problem

 

[Newtothis16]

Would be even better to work from there. A 45 mile road trip, 1 hour train journey (Ashford) or a 10 minute walk! (Orpington)
Did you know they had vacancies at Orpington, I certainly didn't and never saw any advertisements for it?

Hi Nick, I applied for Orpington but this was for future vacancies at the depot and I applied in Dec 15, assessment Jan 16 and dmi mar 17

 

[dknight05]

Might see you on the 8th then, can you come back on here after your medical and just tell us how it went, what to expect?[/QUOTE]

Hello mate
All good on my medical , should pass unless drugs test fail ( which is shouldn't lol )
a little problem on my hearing on my left ear , they going to review it in a years time, told to watch my weight and my heart race was a little fast but nothing to worry

I saw 2 doctors
I had to fill in a questionnaire about myself for example if had any medical problem , what sort of things makes me tired , how much I drink , hearing problems , strokes and so on...

They checking your pulse , hearing , eye seight and ask you to do a few move to check your not in pain

Easy really ! Just be honest on everything and remember to tell them anything you've taken even if brought over the counter

 

[Need2]

Might see you on the 8th then, can you come back on here after your medical and just tell us how it went, what to expect?

Hello mate
All good on my medical , should pass unless drugs test fail ( which is shouldn't lol )
a little problem on my hearing on my left ear , they going to review it in a years time, told to watch my weight and my heart race was a little fast but nothing to worry

I saw 2 doctors
I had to fill in a questionnaire about myself for example if had any medical problem , what sort of things makes me tired , how much I drink , hearing problems , strokes and so on...

They checking your pulse , hearing , eye seight and ask you to do a few move to check your not in pain

Easy really ! Just be honest on everything and remember to tell them anything you've taken even if brought over the counter[/QUOTE]

Good stuff, thanks.
Got mine tomorrow at 10am. Only downer is I'm doing an 8pm 'till 4am night shift before! :roll:
Did they say how long the results would take?