Trainee driver application tips...

[wills]

So, I submitted my application to DBS recently for the trainee train driver role.

It's something I have been wanting to do since forever really, however, since submitting it, I have been thinking, what is it that they really look for on the application form, obviously the main things that often get pointed out on here, cool and calm in any situation, able to sort things out yourself, reliability, being responsible and safe etc.

I currently drive for a heritage railway and I always feature this in any application I make, however, so far, I have never got any responses to ANY application I have made with regards to trainee driver/shunter positions. Could this be something that is automatically precluding me from selection?? I would imagine (in my own mind anyway) that someone who does voluntary driving on a heritage line would be easier to train than someone who does not?? The person would already have some experience of railways etc...

What do you guys think??

Thanks

-Will

 

[BravoGolfMike]

The way to pass the sift is to read the application and person specification and basically copy it and give examples. The recent DB one said that one of the requirments was, amongst other things, "A willingness to work flexibly." So, on your application you put "I always work with a flexible approach in my current job, for example I am willing to change my shifts or work overtime to suit the business." Go through the advert and answer each bullet point in turn. The advert tells you what they want to read, you just have to word it correctly.

As for your experience on a heritage railway, I am always in two minds whether this would help. I do work with plenty of enthusiasts who drive on a heritage railway but you have to be careful not to come across like "because I drive at 25mph on a HR I am halfway there." My advice would be to mention it but only so you then can say "This means that I have developed a safety concious attitude and my customer service skills are excellent as a result of this experience."

If you really want to go driving, and I would highly recommend it, I would suggest you get into any company (the larger the better eg Northern, SWT etc) any way you can and then hammer the internal list. People will now quote this and say I am wrong and that is their perogative but on my driving course there were 8 of us, all internal. The course ahead of us, 6, all internal. The course behind was about 7, only 1 external. The railway is a great industry. Join as a guard, cleaner, platform staff or booking office and you will enjoy yourself plus your chances of going driving will be much greater.

One last thing: if you don't hear back from DBS do not be disheartened, the pecking order was qualified external, internal then external trainee so your chances are slim at best. Keep trying and good luck!

 

[Dave1987]

So, I submitted my application to DBS recently for the trainee train driver role.

It's something I have been wanting to do since forever really, however, since submitting it, I have been thinking, what is it that they really look for on the application form, obviously the main things that often get pointed out on here, cool and calm in any situation, able to sort things out yourself, reliability, being responsible and safe etc.

I currently drive for a heritage railway and I always feature this in any application I make, however, so far, I have never got any responses to ANY application I have made with regards to trainee driver/shunter positions. Could this be something that is automatically precluding me from selection?? I would imagine (in my own mind anyway) that someone who does voluntary driving on a heritage line would be easier to train than someone who does not?? The person would already have some experience of railways etc...

What do you guys think??

Thanks

-Will

In all fairness being a driver on a heritage railway can create a conflict of interest. They don't want people who have the attitude that I can drive on a private line at 25mph so I must be able to drive a modern train at 100mph. I would as the previous post has said put the you do a safety critical job as a volunteer on a heritage railway and this has got you into a safe working mind set. If you are hammering home that you drive on a heritage railway they may be thinking that you will have a conflict of interest.

 

[TDK]

So, I submitted my application to DBS recently for the trainee train driver role.

It's something I have been wanting to do since forever really, however, since submitting it, I have been thinking, what is it that they really look for on the application form, obviously the main things that often get pointed out on here, cool and calm in any situation, able to sort things out yourself, reliability, being responsible and safe etc.

I currently drive for a heritage railway and I always feature this in any application I make, however, so far, I have never got any responses to ANY application I have made with regards to trainee driver/shunter positions. Could this be something that is automatically precluding me from selection?? I would imagine (in my own mind anyway) that someone who does voluntary driving on a heritage line would be easier to train than someone who does not?? The person would already have some experience of railways etc...

What do you guys think??

Thanks

-Will

Hi Will,

They are looking for you to fill the criteria they require for you to be a viable employee some points are below:

1. Experience working shifts
2. Experience of being alone for long periods (no necessarily work related)
3. When you have had to work with strict rules and regulations (standards)
4. Cool and calm in an emergency situation
5. Have some sort of mechanical knowledge (once again not necessarily work related)
6. Reasonably fit
7. Good sickness record

there are many other points that a person sifting will look for.

The only concern with being a driver on a heratage railway would be the reasoning in applying for a mainline drivers job, is it for a career or for a hobby? I always as an assessor was worried sometimes with enthusiastic enthusiasts looking across at say a depot with an unusual train parked there and them missing that red signal in front of them, also would your hobby get in the way of your career? Would you be tempted to have a mate in the cab. I think that these are the main things that an assessor would be looking at with your hobby as a heratage driver, and to be frank your comments about the training being easier for you? Not a chance as OK you may have a little knowledge when it comes to the railways but driving a heratage train at 25mph on a line with no other trains just cannot be compared to driving mainline. Your training will take exactly the same time as a person applying from say a job in a shop or a bank so it won't save the company anything.

Unfortunately in the past there have been trainees I have trained who have thought they know a bit about it only to be excluded from the group by their attitude, I am not saying this is you but you need to remember that many managers/trainers have seen people off heratage railways/spotters/enthusiasts before in classes and had bad experiences with them. I await for the backlash on this but I am quoting the observations from my own experiences and career and being as truthful as I can!

 

[Dave1987]

Hi Will,

They are looking for you to fill the criteria they require for you to be a viable employee some points are below:

1. Experience working shifts
2. Experience of being alone for long periods (no necessarily work related)
3. When you have had to work with strict rules and regulations (standards)
4. Cool and calm in an emergency situation
5. Have some sort of mechanical knowledge (once again not necessarily work related)
6. Reasonably fit
7. Good sickness record

there are many other points that a person sifting will look for.

The only concern with being a driver on a heratage railway would be the reasoning in applying for a mainline drivers job, is it for a career or for a hobby? I always as an assessor was worried sometimes with enthusiastic enthusiasts looking across at say a depot with an unusual train parked there and them missing that red signal in front of them, also would your hobby get in the way of your career? Would you be tempted to have a mate in the cab. I think that these are the main things that an assessor would be looking at with your hobby as a heratage driver, and to be frank your comments about the training being easier for you? Not a chance as OK you may have a little knowledge when it comes to the railways but driving a heratage train at 25mph on a line with no other trains just cannot be compared to driving mainline. Your training will take exactly the same time as a person applying from say a job in a shop or a bank so it won't save the company anything.

Unfortunately in the past there have been trainees I have trained who have thought they know a bit about it only to be excluded from the group by their attitude, I am not saying this is you but you need to remember that many managers/trainers have seen people off heratage railways/spotters/enthusiasts before in classes and had bad experiences with them. I await for the backlash on this but I am quoting the observations from my own experiences and career and being as truthful as I can!

I totally agree with this. I certainly know of a few examples. Best way you can approach your training if you did get through is "you know nothing". Your instructor would teach you all you needed to know. I wouldnt even bring up the fact that you drive on a heritage line to be honest.

 

[wills]

Interesting replies, thank you very much for taking the time to put your points of view across. Plenty to think about, especially with regards to the voluntary work I have been doing.

I think as far as the heritage stuff goes, I only decided to do it as in my mind I thought that doing something voluntary in the field that I am looking to get into would help towards any application I made. I did this quite a bit when I was younger when I wanted to get into the world of IT and data centres. I started out doing voluntary stuff and worked my way in that way - this led on to me being employed by different hosting companies and then onto being self-employed and running my own IT consultancy business. The heritage railway stuff certainly is along the same lines (excuse the pun) - volunteering to try and show some experience with railways with the view to making a full career change.

With the voluntary work I did not realise how many 'train mad' people there are out there. I have never done anything before where I am photographed so much, watched and asked so many questions - which is somewhat embarrassing as my non train background comes through when I can't answer where this or that was made in what year etc and what loco is that visiting and so on. Certainly if I got a job on the mainline I would ditch the volunteer work, or at least scale it right back and just do it occasionally during any annual leave/holiday etc.

I think the selection criteria stuff that BravoGolfMike has been pointed out will also help me to write a better application. The few points that TDK has set out I can definitely relate to with regards to my current job. Points 1-3 I have to contend with everyday, especially 3, some companies I go out to have extremely tight security and very strict rules/regulations on what can and can't happen while you are there, so, I am used to following rules and certainly would never even entertain the idea of anyone unauthorised to be in the cab with me.

My real hobby is Land Rovers and so 5 doesn't really bother me at all. The only points which worry me slightly are 6 & 7 - I am reasonably fit, I certainly fell within the BMI criteria for DBS but I do have a stiffened spine in places (not my neck though) which can make bending down difficult. It has never stopped me doing things before but I worry this may be an immediate no no for any train company (even though they say they are not worried about that stuff - equal opportunities blurb) as they may think I spend all my time off sick (which I don't). Having spoken to DBS about this when I thought about doing the private driver assessment the lady seemed to infer that should I go on to get a job with a company it should not be an issue at all as long as I could still carry out the duty required of me, but I really don't know what to think - I do put on the forms that I have this health problem just so I have been clear with them from the start.

In future I shall definitely reign in any eagerness to put that I work on a heritage line and maybe not even refer to it at all apart from in the way you have suggested.

Thanks all for the replies so far...

-Will

 

[RJ]

I do talk to people in recruitment at some TOCs (not DBS mind) and it has been said that previous experience with a similar role can count against applicants. I won't elucidate on why but suffice to say it's advisable to play your experiences on the railway down, rather than up.

As has been said, focus on showing them why you have the skills they're looking for.

 

[E&W Lucas]

There's plenty of heritage railway people getting jobs on the mainline, but it is their experience in real life that has secured their position, not their hobby.

I drive heritage, and made no secret of that in my interview. However, that was an adjunct to my real life work experience to date. With an emphasis that I recognised th difference between heritage and mainline railway. When I did my structured interview, I was asked not to refer to my prior railway experience.

Let's be honest, speed isn't everything, and there are some very good railwaymen in the heritage sector. It is perfectly possible to develop a degree of railway sense in that environment. However, there are a lot of idiots too, who should be nowhere near moving trains. Plenty of my heritage colleagues are now enjoying a mainline career, but their heritage experience is incidental.

 

[notadriver]

Hi Will
How did you get into Heritage driving? Does it take a long time to work your way up to Heritage driver ?

 

[Beveridges]

You should mention your pres line driving experience in a big way. The only way it can count against you is if you act like you "know it all". NO ONE knows it all except the people already driving for DB Schenker.
Speed is irrelevant - I drive at 5mph on a depot and its not necessarily an easier or less skilled job than mainline, its a different type of job altogether. So don't be put off by the 25mph. Some applicants have never even driven a rail vehicle unsupervised in their life.

As for Driving on a pres line you've demonstrated that you've got a flexible attitude, that you can follow rules and instructions, that you can concentrate for long periods of time (driving up & down the same short railway all day must require a lot of concentration and show that you do not "switch off" easy). Its also good evidence that you can work safely at all times. It also shows that you could probably stick the job after getting it, as you are already doing something very similar and are doing it for free. Some people get the job after having done nothing like it before and find they hate it.
If anything, pres line experience counts for more than (for example) experience in a job thats got very little to nothing in common with train driving. For example - most jobs.

Would it make the training easier? Yes compared to someone (for example) who has come from a bank and does not have a clue about the railway. However it will not shorten it in any way as the course covers everything whether you already know it or not, as some of the people on it are absolute beginners with zero railway experience. You will probably find some of the classroom stuff easier at the beginning. But the majority of the course will be new content that has to be learned. Rules for example many of them do not apply to pres lines. Traction training for example will be entirely new content, as the traction will be class 60, 66, 67, 90, 92. Maybe 08/09 is the only traction you might already have knowledge of so it would help with that. Route learning (the main part of the training) will clearly all be new content, and with train handling you'd have an advantage over someone with no experience however a minimum of 250 hours handling would still required as part of the course even if you pick it up quicker than that.

 

[TDK]

You should mention your pres line driving experience in a big way. The only way it can count against you is if you act like you "know it all". NO ONE knows it all except the people already driving for DB Schenker.
Speed is irrelevant - I drive at 5mph on a depot and its not necessarily an easier or less skilled job than mainline, its a different type of job altogether. So don't be put off by the 25mph. Some applicants have never even driven a rail vehicle unsupervised in their life.

As for Driving on a pres line you've demonstrated that you've got a flexible attitude, that you can follow rules and instructions, that you can concentrate for long periods of time (driving up & down the same short railway all day must require a lot of concentration and show that you do not "switch off" easy). Its also good evidence that you can work safely at all times. It also shows that you could probably stick the job after getting it, as you are already doing something very similar and are doing it for free. Some people get the job after having done nothing like it before and find they hate it.
If anything, pres line experience counts for more than (for example) experience in a job thats got very little to nothing in common with train driving. For example - most jobs.

Would it make the training easier? Yes compared to someone (for example) who has come from a bank and does not have a clue about the railway. However it will not shorten it in any way as the course covers everything whether you already know it or not, as some of the people on it are absolute beginners with zero railway experience. You will probably find some of the classroom stuff easier at the beginning. But the majority of the course will be new content that has to be learned. Rules for example many of them do not apply to pres lines. Traction training for example will be entirely new content, as the traction will be class 60, 66, 67, 90, 92. Maybe 08/09 is the only traction you might already have knowledge of so it would help with that. Route learning (the main part of the training) will clearly all be new content, and with train handling you'd have an advantage over someone with no experience however a minimum of 250 hours handling would still required as part of the course even if you pick it up quicker than that.

Sorry beveridges I do not agree with your comments but are you really qualified to advise people on interview techniques and answers considering you have missed out on many occasions at the interview stage, not an insult matey but an observation!

 

[Dave1987]

You should mention your pres line driving experience in a big way. The only way it can count against you is if you act like you "know it all". NO ONE knows it all except the people already driving for DB Schenker.
Speed is irrelevant - I drive at 5mph on a depot and its not necessarily an easier or less skilled job than mainline, its a different type of job altogether. So don't be put off by the 25mph. Some applicants have never even driven a rail vehicle unsupervised in their life.

As for Driving on a pres line you've demonstrated that you've got a flexible attitude, that you can follow rules and instructions, that you can concentrate for long periods of time (driving up & down the same short railway all day must require a lot of concentration and show that you do not "switch off" easy). Its also good evidence that you can work safely at all times. It also shows that you could probably stick the job after getting it, as you are already doing something very similar and are doing it for free. Some people get the job after having done nothing like it before and find they hate it.
If anything, pres line experience counts for more than (for example) experience in a job thats got very little to nothing in common with train driving. For example - most jobs.

Would it make the training easier? Yes compared to someone (for example) who has come from a bank and does not have a clue about the railway. However it will not shorten it in any way as the course covers everything whether you already know it or not, as some of the people on it are absolute beginners with zero railway experience. You will probably find some of the classroom stuff easier at the beginning. But the majority of the course will be new content that has to be learned. Rules for example many of them do not apply to pres lines. Traction training for example will be entirely new content, as the traction will be class 60, 66, 67, 90, 92. Maybe 08/09 is the only traction you might already have knowledge of so it would help with that. Route learning (the main part of the training) will clearly all be new content, and with train handling you'd have an advantage over someone with no experience however a minimum of 250 hours handling would still required as part of the course even if you pick it up quicker than that.

Sorry matey but my instructor said he preferred teaching someone completely new. He said it was much much easier. I was told that the best attitude to have when you start is you know nothing. They will then teach you all you need to know and keep out the irrelevant bits.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

It is simply not right to say that knowing nothing is better than knowing a little. Knowing a little means you won't be bewildered by such acronyms as TPWS, AWS, ERTMS, TCB, AB, EBS, TIS (I could, but won't, go on) and you can get on with learning the rules and the job without worrying about what this is and what that means.
What is important is the attitude of trainees and the acknowledgement that they do not know better than the instructor. It doesn't take a total lack of knowledge to have the right attitude and frankly anybody who has never seen what the inside of a cab looks like or hasn't heard the ping of the AWS is at a disadvantage against those that have.

 

[Legzr1]

Some time ago (mid-late 1990's) the 'traincrew concept' came into being.
It meant the guards role on the freight side was being done away with so left a lot of suplus employees.

The (now redundant) ex-guards were given the opportunity to apply for train driving courses.

At around the same time, coal work from Scotland to the power stations exploded and a lot of 'off the street' candidates were taken on.

The point: During the driving courses the main frustration of the instructors was ex-guards with a little knowledge that was proven to be wrong.
Some had worked on the railway for 30 years and had seen (for example) TBW many times but NOT from the perspective of a driver.
The same instructors found it far easier to train someone from scratch.
Someone not stuck in their ways with duff information.

Obviously, I'm generalising here but it gives some idea of the possible issues and perhaps a reason why some TOC's and FOC's prefer those with zero knowledge (and expectations) rather than those who 'think' they know quite a bit already.

On the flip side: Route knowledge.
This is where prior experience comes into it's own - some of the details retained by ex-guards who are now drivers is truly impressive and mind boggling.


A phrase used by an ex- driver/instructor/traincrew supervisor and now rail consultant when asking second men not to drive loco's on the shed :

"A little knowledge is very dangerous".

Who am I to argue?

 

[Dave1987]

Well like I said my instructor said he preferred trainees that had no knowledge of driving at all and said the course tended to go a lot easier. And from what TDK says it sounds like it is. Things you might know about AWS/TPWS/TIS etc might be completely irrelevant. Your instructor teaches you only what you need to know.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

There isn't a great deal to know really! But if you go in knowing AWS warns, TPWS stops, DSD makes sure you're alive and Vig makes sure you're awake it's a pretty good start. I accept what your instructor told you although I find in unfathomable. My experience is obviously different to yours and my instructor clearly thought differently to yours. C'est la vie.

 

[Beveridges]

Sorry beveridges I do not agree with your comments but are you really qualified to advise people on interview techniques and answers considering you have missed out on many occasions at the interview stage, not an insult matey but an observation!

How many people on here are any better qualified to advise really?

You could say that unless your a DTM who works for the company in question and is involved in Interviews then do not advise.

Then the forum would be empty/ almost empty.

I have missed out on Interviews in the past but I've passed a few as well. Probably more than you have. Some of the jobs I went for I would have wish I hadn't if I got the job. I'm where I want to be right now.

Sorry matey but my instructor said he preferred teaching someone completely new. He said it was much much easier.

Is it the Instructor doing the Interview - the preference of one instructor not count towards anything. Is it really easier teaching someone completely new than (for example) a Qualified Driver who has come from passenger work and is learning freight? Obviously not as the minimum number of hours on the practical is less.
When a mainline driver goes depot driving (voluntary or not) they also get the training cut down by at least 2 months. Prior knowledge should make someone easier to train.

 

[sw1ller]

I'm just going to put my 50p in here.....

I used to be a tanker driver for Shell. When I had my interview I was asked how much tanker experience I had. When I told them "not much but I learn fast" the interviewer smiled and said "Good. You wont have any bad habits then".

The point to this? Well if I were to hire someone, I would want them in with as little knowledge as possible. How would I know that they had been trained properly in the past? If I was to say...... 'Break here' and they ignored me as they thought they knew a better breaking point, could this be dangerous? Could there be other conflicts in training. So I know what AWS stands for..... All Weather System...... right? I've been told this by someone so I know its correct. (bit of sarcasm there....... I have no idea what AWS stands for but I know it makes a loud noise)

Anyway...... 50p spent I think.....

 

[TDK]

How many people on here are any better qualified to advise really?

You could say that unless your a DTM who works for the company in question and is involved in Interviews then do not advise.

Then the forum would be empty/ almost empty.

I have missed out on Interviews in the past but I've passed a few as well. Probably more than you have. Some of the jobs I went for I would have wish I hadn't if I got the job. I'm where I want to be right now.




Is it the Instructor doing the Interview - the preference of one instructor not count towards anything. Is it really easier teaching someone completely new than (for example) a Qualified Driver who has come from passenger work and is learning freight? Obviously not as the minimum number of hours on the practical is less.
When a mainline driver goes depot driving (voluntary or not) they also get the training cut down by at least 2 months. Prior knowledge should make someone easier to train.

Beveridges, I am not having a dig but some of your advice is not going to help a person going for a drivers job, I am not going to list them here but there has been some poor advice given, as long as people on here read everyones input and go down the middle it is good advice in some parts.

To add for the other post regarding instrutors, I would certainly prefer to instruct a qualified driver as it is a lot less streeful however it is a challenge to have someone from scratch and nuture them in to a good style of driving. So I suppose from an instrutors point of view an equal share of either will keep the grey matter pulsing

 

[sw1ller]

Beveridges, I am not having a dig but some of your advice is not going to help a person going for a drivers job, I am not going to list them here but there has been some poor advice given, as long as people on here read everyones input and go down the middle it is good advice in some parts.

To add for the other post regarding instrutors, I would certainly prefer to instruct a qualified driver as it is a lot less streeful however it is a challenge to have someone from scratch and nuture them in to a good style of driving. So I suppose from an instrutors point of view an equal share of either will keep the grey matter pulsing

I wasn't even thinking about how easy or difficult or easy it would be for the instructor! haha. I was just going for a better quality end product the trainee would be at the end. Sod the instructor, that's what s/he's paid for!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh my days.... How bad was the grammar in that last post?? I promise to finish my tea and turn Top Gear off before posting in future.

 

[doubleamber]

everyone in any job can learn bad habits, TDK, do you work to some sort of training syllabus, or do different companies have their own S.O.P s ?

 

[notadriver]

I wasn't even thinking about how easy or difficult or easy it would be for the instructor! haha. I was just going for a better quality end product the trainee would be at the end. Sod the instructor, that's what s/he's paid for!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh my days.... How bad was the grammar in that last post?? I promise to finish my tea and turn Top Gear off before posting in future.

I'm not sure I understand. You are saying a trainee driver is better than an experienced driver right ?

 

[Beveridges]

Obviously experienced is going to be better every time... for example at NH we had ex-mainline drivers going Depot Driving/Shunting. They were passed out within 4-5 months. The last trainee (ex-station staff with no driving experience) took well over 7 months.

OK my example is not freight driving with DB Schenker but the same concept stands

 

[BravoGolfMike]

I am frankly amazed that people can think that going into an alien industry with it's own acronyms, phrases, language, rules and goodness knows what else is better if you have no idea about any of it before going in. Really? The drivers course is difficult enough even when you know what they're talking about!

 

[sw1ller]

That's not what I said is it?

I said, in a round about way, that if you go into a job with the wrong skills or bad habits it COULD make it harder for a trainer to train you.

If you are a qualified train driver then yes, there is a very good chance that you know more about train driving than a banker! However, after reading some of these posts i'm not so sure!

 

[BravoGolfMike]

I agree that bad habits will make you harder to train but that is more down to attitude of said trainee than prior knowledge of the industry.

 

[TDK]

everyone in any job can learn bad habits, TDK, do you work to some sort of training syllabus, or do different companies have their own S.O.P s ?

The job I do has update training days to maintain competence and also a 2 year competence cycle this is generic with most TOC's. I have in the past interviewed, trained, recruited, assessed, investigated, disciplined and also retrained drivers off track. Attitude is the main factor with training, there is nothing worse than a new trainee or even a qualified driver who think they know it all, I am learning every day myself and I have been in it for a while. There are quite a few on this forum who have been in the job 5 miutes who act as if they have been in it for 20 years it is these ones who are a problem when training to be honest.

However DBS have in the past notoriously had problems with driver retension this is down to candidates who want to drive engines on freight as it fits in with their ideal of being a train driver and it does not normally take long for them to want to swan off into a TOC where the money is nearly the same and the work, working conditions and hours are a lot more favourable, this is the reason for the retension clauses in their contracts, you have to be a certain type of person to be a freight driver and to be fair they are far and few between.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I agree that bad habits will make you harder to train but that is more down to attitude of said trainee than prior knowledge of the industry.

Spot on, there is nothing worse than a trainee who thinks they can do the job and don't need the level of training that is required and historically it is these ones that have incidents in the first year of driving

 

[reapz]

The job I do has update training days to maintain competence and also a 2 year competence cycle this is generic with most TOC's. I have in the past interviewed, trained, recruited, assessed, investigated, disciplined and also retrained drivers off track. Attitude is the main factor with training, there is nothing worse than a new trainee or even a qualified driver who think they know it all, I am learning every day myself and I have been in it for a while. There are quite a few on this forum who have been in the job 5 miutes who act as if they have been in it for 20 years it is these ones who are a problem when training to be honest.

However DBS have in the past notoriously had problems with driver retension this is down to candidates who want to drive engines on freight as it fits in with their ideal of being a train driver and it does not normally take long for them to want to swan off into a TOC where the money is nearly the same and the work, working conditions and hours are a lot more favourable, this is the reason for the retension clauses in their contracts, you have to be a certain type of person to be a freight driver and to be fair they are far and few between.

I was once told " When you think you know everything its time to hand in your key as your dangerous!"

 

[TDK]

That's not what I said is it?

I said, in a round about way, that if you go into a job with the wrong skills or bad habits it COULD make it harder for a trainer to train you.

If you are a qualified train driver then yes, there is a very good chance that you know more about train driving than a banker! However, after reading some of these posts i'm not so sure!

Correct in some ways, bad habits when being in the role of a train driver are soon discovered with observation, assessment, feedback from others and downloads and it is management who then needs to redirect the driver into what they should be doing, all companies have what is called a professional driving policy that in turn gives the drivers a reasonably strict guide to adhere to. I don't know many qualified drivers that have what I would say bad habits all drivers will drive their train differently but to the standard. A qulaified driver is easy to train up on traction, handling and routes where as someone from outside the industry is a lot more taxing, then you get the ones who know a little and think they know it all and it is these who are problematic.
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Sod the instructor, that's what s/he's paid for!

That comment may come back and bite you as when you are training if the instructor says jump you say how high, if you don't you will on the cusions for the rest of the day, you need to remember that the instructor is in charge of the train not you, it is their train and if there is an incident it is purley down to them and they will take the rap, the extra little money and instructor gets does not merit their role.
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Obviously, I'm generalising here but it gives some idea of the possible issues and perhaps a reason why some TOC's and FOC's prefer those with zero knowledge (and expectations) rather than those who 'think' they know quite a bit already.

In my opinion TOC's like trainees sometimes over qualified drivers because they can nurture their way of thinking and that is "profit". If you have a depot of new drivers they will do whatever management want them to do and not argue on hours, rostering, working condition etc. They will do as they are ordered, now this is a bad thing as in my opinion once again this could lead to drivers becoming fatigued, doing things that they feel may infringe safety like taking a train with a fault where an experienced driver will fail it. There are strict rules and regulations in place to protect drivers from this agreed both with management and the unions and these rules/guidlines should be adhered to at all costs. Don't get me wrong here, this is just an opinion but usually my opinions are not far off the truth.

 

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Some time ago (mid-late 1990's) the 'traincrew concept' came into being.
It meant the guards role on the freight side was being done away with so left a lot of suplus employees.

The Train Crew concept came in on October 3rd 1988.
I stayed as a guard/trainman/ Team Member to my finishing with the Railway in 2008.
Quite a lot of guards stayed as above and finished with 44 years on the railway.
For example quite a lot of guards went to Leeds City as guards or whatever they are today and are still working as guards.
Quite a lot of guards went to be drivers.