Train v National Express Coach v Plane

[SpacePhoenix]

I remember being on a NX coach one time, back when some of the non-airport ones all went via Heathrow. There was what I'd have to describe as a "plane crossing", whist we were waiting a couple of Concords taxied across the road.

Coaches are a lot cheaper then rail and you've got more luggage space but trains have the advantage that you can get up and stretch your legs and some also have trolley/buffet services. Coaches have the disadvantage of being restricted for times. Heading home from London once we were booked on a later coach, the previous one was running late. We asked if there was space on the coach that was in, turned out there was so we got the earlier coach

 

[DarloRich]

Some interesting comments - thanks for sharing - perhaps I have been too hard on the bus. The one thing I couldn't do on the bus is work on my lap top. I can on the train.

I can't envisage any eventuality that would make me travel by coach. Except maybe an emergency replacement situation. Train, plane or car would win every time

I don't own a plane or a car

I would prefer the train (as the bus is for plebs) but an on the day fare of £18 versus an £80 fare on the train kind of crystallises the mind! PLUS I miss the joys of New Street on the bus.

 

[Minilad]

I don't own a plane or a car

I would prefer the train ( as the bus is for plebs) but and £18 fare versus an £80 fare kind of crystallises the mind!

But remember for me that would be £18 versus £20 (or possibly free)

What do we want. PRIV for Network rail employees. When do we want it. Now.

 

[DarloRich]

But remember for me that would be £18 versus £20 (or possibly free)

What do we want. PRIV for Network rail employees. When do we want it. Now.

I didn't like to say that! PS you have my vote.

IN fairness i do fly a lot more now I live in MK. We have Luton, London Airports and even Brum in close proximity. I fly up to Glasgow often as it is quicker than the train and price competitive. There is no way I could do that journey by bus.

 

[SquireBev]

Worcester isn't very well served by National Express, as the coaches don't come in to the city centre, but instead go to and from the old park and ride site by the rugby stadium.

Unfortunately, the council cancelled the park and ride service and so there isn't a public transport link between the coach stop and the city centre at all!

 

[BestWestern]

NatEx has come on greatly in recent years, one of the biggest improvements being the introduction of a bespoke, standard coach design to be used across the network; the Caetano Levante. Almost every vehicle on NatEx work is now identical (a small number of Plaxton machines can be seen, but they're in a tiny minority), meaning standards and expectations are maintained. In years gone by, considerable numbers of non-NatEx vehicles tended to be the norm, where any sort of coach and livery could turn up. Whilst there was still a required specification, that approach did little for the brand. Ridership has grown such that tri-axle Levantes were introduced, and the network is now seeing the reintroduction of deckers following their withdrawal after the Skyliner overturning incident some years back.

Being dirt cheap probably helps, too!

Big problem for me in UK coaches is idiotic drivers who don't turn the AC on & then they wonder why their own windscreen mists up, let alone C02 & other noxious gas build up in a sealed vehicle and the effect on their attentiveness. Scares me that someone that daft is in charge of other persons safety. Doesn't happen in any other country I have used them.

I think you can be reasonably confident that a driver will be aware of how to operate the vehicle heating and cooling systems, and how to demist his windscreen. Do bear in mind that on many PCVs, air conditioning means 'cold', rather than being climate control, heating often being an entirely separate system. In most cases the cab temperature settings are also independent from those for the saloon. If the screen is misting it may well be a chilly day, and so blasting cold air around inside is unlikely to be popular.

 

[Lrd]

I think you can be reasonably confident that a driver will be aware of how to operate the vehicle heating and cooling systems, and how to demist his windscreen. Do bear in mind that on many PCVs, air conditioning means 'cold', rather than being climate control, heating often being an entirely separate system. In most cases the cab temperature settings are also independent from those for the saloon. If the screen is misting it may well be a chilly day, and so blasting cold air around inside is unlikely to be popular.

On the Levante's the saloon heating/cooling controls were in the overhead locker above the first set of seats so not accessible when driving. The drivers were told to keep it at 23C (and were randomly checked) but most would whack it up in the morning when its cold to warm it up quicker (which doesn't work) and then forget to turn it down at the next stop.

The drivers heat/vent is separate but was quite often useless unless it was on full blast making loads of noise. I used to just open the window which often kept the windscreen clear but the passenger sat directly behind me would get cold very quickly.

 

[cuccir]

Some interesting comments - thanks for sharing - perhaps I have been too hard on the bus. The one thing I couldn't do on the bus is work on my lap top. I can on the train.

When the ECML was shut in the north-east last week, I gave up and took the bus home Newcastle-Durham. I was impressed that the bus had tables with laptop points and free WiFi; if you lived somewhere convenient along the bus route so could gain some time back in not having to travel to the train station, I can see how if more buses and coaches improve in this way then they could start to win people back and change their image somewhat.

 

[misterredmist]

Nice to read that the coach journeys are more pleasant than my own pre-conceptions.

What are the load factors like on these buses ?

 

[Kite159]

The only time I've used National Express was a few years ago when attending a concert at Wembley Stadium (direct from Basingstoke to Wembley) as due to engineering works closing the line at Woking.

Certainly helped out with the post event crowds, as it was to the coach park to locate the coach and sit back in the traffic jam, working out which way the driver would go.

 

[Clip]

I just cant get along with coaches - not enough room for me and feels far to claustrophobic for me. In fact I hate travelling on the bloody things and done tried it again about a year or so back on my friends insistence and vowed from that trip on never ever again.

 

[Clip]

Also no drinking isnt the one either.

 

[extendedpaul]

Nice to read that the coach journeys are more pleasant than my own pre-conceptions.

What are the load factors like on these buses ?

Like trains vary hugely but in my experience seldom full between 10am and 5pm when I mostly travel. I've seen plenty of National Express services leave Victoria with fewer than 10 on board. Megabus generally fuller. High percentage of solo travellers like me most of whom try to keep two seats to themselves. Being old, tall and a bit scruffy I usually succeed

A friend whose journeys are on Friday and Sunday evenings reports most services full or almost full.

 

[anti-pacer]

I worked for National Express in 2006/7. I was the assistant manager at Nottingham Broadmarsh travel centre.

My views of coach travel are mixed. The passengers were either lovely or vile and not a day went by without an incident.

London coaches were the worst. Dispatching them was awful. The passengers treated boarding like a rugby scrum, although I only ever saw this behaviour in Nottingham. On fully booked coaches fights weren't uncommon as people placed bags on seats to stop other passengers sitting next to them. A bit of a problem when you have 49 people booked on a 49-seat coach.

Other services weren't as bad although Heathrow/Gatwick coaches often ended up with more luggage being carried than was allowed. A lot of Chinese students for example treated it as a removal service.

If you end up on a quieter service with nice fellow passengers, coach travel can be nice. I had free travel when I worked there and went on many a lovely journey. The upsides are guaranteed seats, luggage loaded for you, and the price. Also you see more from a coach.

What let's NX down is their reluctance to invest in technology. I don't mean the vehicles, I'm taking about the basics. Even now, nearly 10 years after I left, they STILL print "loading charts" at coach stations for the driver. These aren't real time, and as soon as another passenger books onto that service, the chart is out of date. Tickets are STILL written manually for those who board without one. This is common in the evening when ticket offices are closed. On an evening service from Liverpool-Leeds I saw 21 Muslim men board in Manchester, all travelling to Bradford, all travelling together, but all wanting to pay separately. With the driver having to write out 21 tickets, and having to deal with language and change problems, we sat there for 35 minutes. The driver was less than impressed, as were a lot of us passengers.

They are getting better in fairness and it does seem that coach travel is more appealing than it was, but since I left in 2007 I have travelled on less than 10 coaches. It's the train for me every time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The "rugby scrum" would be avoided by allocating seats, just as it has been with low-cost airlines. As I've said this would enable extra services such as paying extra to reserve a double seat. The ability to do this would make coach travel much, much more attractive.

The downside is that it wouldn't work well where duplicates are operated.

 

[BestWestern]

The "rugby scrum" would be avoided by allocating seats, just as it has been with low-cost airlines. As I've said this would enable extra services such as paying extra to reserve a double seat. The ability to do this would make coach travel much, much more attractive.

The downside is that it wouldn't work well where duplicates are operated.

Or where a number of passengers have bought a ticket in the manner mentioned above, from the driver. Whereupon you would then have "that's my seat" issues just as we do on trains.

 

[anti-pacer]

The "rugby scrum" would be avoided by allocating seats, just as it has been with low-cost airlines. As I've said this would enable extra services such as paying extra to reserve a double seat. The ability to do this would make coach travel much, much more attractive.

The downside is that it wouldn't work well where duplicates are operated.

I think the issues on the 450 London service were as follows;

1) Busier services which passengers seem to fear they wouldn't get a seat on, despite everyone getting a seat
2) People wanting the best seats, as determined by themselves
3) Demographics of that service. Many people from countries where queueing isn't the norm

Things were a lot easier when a had a "dupe" (duplicate coach) on. It was a case of fill that up with Victoria passengers so it could run non-stop. The service coach would then do Milton Keynes, Golders Green (if it was a service that stopped there) and Victoria.

Interestingly back in 1994 when I used the 525 Rapide Plus every week from London to Newcastle, to see my ex, you checked your bags in and you CHOSE your seat.

 

[Bungle965]

I worked for National Express in 2006/7. I was the assistant manager at Nottingham Broadmarsh travel centre.

My views of coach travel are mixed. The passengers were either lovely or vile and not a day went by without an incident.

London coaches were the worst. Dispatching them was awful. The passengers treated boarding like a rugby scrum, although I only ever saw this behaviour in Nottingham. On fully booked coaches fights weren't uncommon as people placed bags on seats to stop other passengers sitting next to them. A bit of a problem when you have 49 people booked on a 49-seat coach.

Other services weren't as bad although Heathrow/Gatwick coaches often ended up with more luggage being carried than was allowed. A lot of Chinese students for example treated it as a removal service.

If you end up on a quieter service with nice fellow passengers, coach travel can be nice. I had free travel when I worked there and went on many a lovely journey. The upsides are guaranteed seats, luggage loaded for you, and the price. Also you see more from a coach.

What let's NX down is their reluctance to invest in technology. I don't mean the vehicles, I'm taking about the basics. Even now, nearly 10 years after I left, they STILL print "loading charts" at coach stations for the driver. These aren't real time, and as soon as another passenger books onto that service, the chart is out of date. Tickets are STILL written manually for those who board without one. This is common in the evening when ticket offices are closed. On an evening service from Liverpool-Leeds I saw 21 Muslim men board in Manchester, all travelling to Bradford, all travelling together, but all wanting to pay separately. With the driver having to write out 21 tickets, and having to deal with language and change problems, we sat there for 35 minutes. The driver was less than impressed, as were a lot of us passengers.

They are getting better in fairness and it does seem that coach travel is more appealing than it was, but since I left in 2007 I have travelled on less than 10 coaches. It's the train for me every time.

Interesting that you should mention drivers writing out tickets, I have seen on 2 different coaches now,on the left hand side of the drivers seats with what looks to be the contactless symbol on it. At first I did think that it might have been the mobile phone system however that was visible next to the machine. Apologies for the rather vague information I did not get a chance to look properly at what it was but perhaps this is their solution so that the driver does not have to keep writing out tickets if the ticket office is not available.
Sam

 

[anti-pacer]

Interesting that you should mention drivers writing out tickets, I have seen on 2 different coaches now,on the left hand side of the drivers seats with what looks to be the contactless symbol on it. At first I did think that it might have been the mobile phone system however that was visible next to the machine. Apologies for the rather vague information I did not get a chance to look properly at what it was but perhaps this is their solution so that the driver does not have to keep writing out tickets if the ticket office is not available.
Sam

Well if this is the case, that's a massive and welcome improvement from how things were.

 

[Bungle965]

Well if this is the case, that's a massive and welcome improvement from how things were.

Yes, obviously it could not be what I am thinking and could be something completely different. On the topic of boarding the coach without a ticket its something which I have never dared to do as I do not quite know how the driver would respond and further to this if I was boarding somewhere which was not a main interchange or terminal I would feel rather worried that the coach would simply drive past because the driver does not have anyone on his loading charts.
Sam

 

[furnessvale]

Interesting that you should mention drivers writing out tickets, I have seen on 2 different coaches now,on the left hand side of the drivers seats with what looks to be the contactless symbol on it. At first I did think that it might have been the mobile phone system however that was visible next to the machine. Apologies for the rather vague information I did not get a chance to look properly at what it was but perhaps this is their solution so that the driver does not have to keep writing out tickets if the ticket office is not available.
Sam

Sounds like the contactor for pensioners free bus passes.

 

[Bungle965]

Sounds like the contactor for pensioners free bus passes.

Are bus passes allowed on National Express? Last I knew they were not.
Sam

 

[Old Yard Dog]

We've started using National Express to get from Ellesmere Port to Heathrow and Stansted airports as (a) there is very little luggage space on Virgin trains (b) train fares are extortionate unless you can travel in the limited off-peak period (c) there is no direct public transport link from Euston to Heathrow since they took off the A1 bus.

However there is a risk of missing connections due to traffic delays or delayed flights coming back. So often we stay overnight.

 

[Bletchleyite]

NatEx coaches on some airport routes have long had bus-type ticket machines, if that could be of relevance.

 

[Bungle965]

NatEx coaches on some airport routes have long had bus-type ticket machines, if that could be of relevance.

Yes they have rather ancient Wayfarer machines on those.
Sam

 

[anti-pacer]

Yes they have rather ancient Wayfarer machines on those.
Sam

The shuttles used to sell tickets from Wayfarer machines, and then they stopped.

 

[AlterEgo]

Are bus passes allowed on National Express? Last I knew they were not.
Sam

I've seen someone waved on the Woking 701 RailAir with one before.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've seen someone waved on the Woking 701 RailAir with one before.

They're valid on any service that is a registered local bus service, which in some cases is whole routes (registered in sections), and in others is parts of routes. Acceptance is required as a condition of claiming BSOG, which is the whole reason NatEx register some sections of some routes.

 

[abn444]

National Express run a few services;

Victoria - London Airports
Victoria - Bristol
Victoria - Birmingham
Victoria - Plymouth (one a week I believe)

All drivers are trained to National Express spec and have to pass NatEx assessments before being able to drive for them. The operators have to use NatEx specced vehicles. And the drivers are in constant contact with NatEx, either at coach stations or on the phone.

I didn't know they operated that one, I'm sure that's operated by South Gloucestershire Bus & Coach with a couple of extras run by someone else, unless it has changed recently.

 

[RichmondCommu]

What let's NX down is their reluctance to invest in technology. I don't mean the vehicles, I'm taking about the basics. Even now, nearly 10 years after I left, they STILL print "loading charts" at coach stations for the driver. These aren't real time, and as soon as another passenger books onto that service, the chart is out of date. Tickets are STILL written manually for those who board without one. This is common in the evening when ticket offices are closed. On an evening service from Liverpool-Leeds I saw 21 Muslim men board in Manchester, all travelling to Bradford, all travelling together, but all wanting to pay separately. With the driver having to write out 21 tickets, and having to deal with language and change problems, we sat there for 35 minutes. The driver was less than impressed, as were a lot of us passengers.

Why the need to mention that they were Muslim men? Just curious.