Train Travel: What are the ACTUAL rules?

[221129]

The rear doors of this coach are locked out of use

They shouldn't be!

 

[theironroad]

They shouldn't be!

I've seen this on xc services down south as well and must admit that I've rather scratched my head as to how this has been sanctioned unless the whole coach is being locked out of use and that itself brings into question the trolley staff and passengers queuing in that coach. I assume that xc ops standards have a view on this!

 

[island]

I vaguely remember that there is a provision in the rule book stating that the end doors of the leading or trailing vehicle of a train must not be locked out of use.

 

[221129]

I've seen this on xc services down south as well and must admit that I've rather scratched my head as to how this has been sanctioned unless the whole coach is being locked out of use and that itself brings into question the trolley staff and passengers queuing in that coach. I assume that xc ops standards have a view on this!

Are they actually locked out? I know there are notices that have taken them out of public use, but they must not be locked out unless the whole vehicle is.

 

[Bikeman78]

I vaguely remember that there is a provision in the rule book stating that the end doors of the leading or trailing vehicle of a train must not be locked out of use.

Good point. Though bizarrely this does happen on SWR class 159s. Used to apply to class 442 as well. I assume there is some sort of emergency release that will allow access to the leading vestibule.

 

[221129]

Good point. Though bizarrely this does happen on SWR class 159s. Used to apply to class 442 as well. I assume there is some sort of emergency release that will allow access to the leading vestibule.

Correct. On some train types the doors remain electrically locked which means pulling the egress will still release them.

 

[MDB1images]

On LNER the guard announced to sit only in window seats, could be wrong and avanti im thinking of .

At TPE it's the same, vast majority follow the advice when loadings permit, never had an issue with it!

 

[Grecian 1998]

I've travelled numerous times on XC over the last few months south of Bristol (and once north to Cheltenham). Most although not all guards have stated via the intercom you must use window seats; some have enforced this but the majority haven't.

The GWR website warns that if you don't have a reservation for an XC service you may be refused travel - not mandatory but strongly advised. I've never bothered with a reservation and never had a problem finding an empty double seat, although services have definitely become busier as time has gone on. TBF most services are 8 coaches which helps. I think someone posted elsewhere on this site there have been overcrowding issues north of Bristol, but it's generally a bit quieter heading south.

Good point. Though bizarrely this does happen on SWR class 159s. Used to apply to class 442 as well. I assume there is some sort of emergency release that will allow access to the leading vestibule.

I saw it quoted somewhere on here this was due to an old agreement between the union (presumably ASLEF) and SWT as was. Also applies on 158s though it's definitely just the front door on them not the rear door - would only have 50% of the doors in use otherwise.

 

[theironroad]

Are they actually locked out? I know there are notices that have taken them out of public use, but they must not be locked out unless the whole vehicle is.

I've not actually tried, maybe the notice is just a deterrent. I've only used a xc once since march. That's why I was scratching head as aware of coach lock out but didn't really pay more than a glancing thought about it.

Good point. Though bizarrely this does happen on SWR class 159s. Used to apply to class 442 as well. I assume there is some sort of emergency release that will allow access to the leading vestibule.

There is an emergency release from the saloon to vestibule behind a perspex cover on wall. The swr 158/9 door locks automatically once the leading cab has a drivers key on.

442s should also have lead vestibule door locked ,though is a one switch controlled by driver rather than automatic, when it is less cab and a similar access panel i on the wall.

As swr 158/9 and 442 have no door in the cab , track access is via vestibule for driver during emergency/incident/failure. I believe that the swr set up is different to 158s elsewhere because of the danger of the 3rd rail and passenegers accidentally falling from an open door, however unlikely this may be!

 

[Bikeman78]

I've not actually tried, maybe the notice is just a deterrent. I've only used a xc once since march. That's why I was scratching head as aware of coach lock out but didn't really pay more than a glancing thought about it.



There is an emergency release from the saloon to vestibule behind a perspex cover on wall. The swr 158/9 door locks automatically once the leading cab has a drivers key on.

442s should also have lead vestibule door locked ,though is a one switch controlled by driver rather than automatic, when it is less cab and a similar access panel i on the wall.

As swr 158/9 and 442 have no door in the cab , track access is via vestibule for driver during emergency/incident/failure. I believe that the swr set up is different to 158s elsewhere because of the danger of the 3rd rail and passenegers accidentally falling from an open door, however unlikely this may be!

Thanks. This does sound like a solution looking for a problem. 158s run (or ran) from Cardiff to Portsmouth Harbour, Brighton and even Waterloo without the leading doors locked out of use.

 

[High Dyke]

On LNER the guard announced to sit only in window seats, could be wrong and avanti im thinking of .

Haven't had that announcement on LNER, unless it's one person making those types of announcement. What gets me about travelling on LNER is the seat reservation allocation. On the 16:33 London - Bradford this evening I had my reserved seat in Coach C. There were 11 people in that coach upon departure from London. A couple of people were sat towards either end of the coach, but the majority of us were all seated within a block of about 18 seats (44 - 62). Surely, if they know how many reservations are in a coach they could space everyone out a bit more? I had a similar experience a couple of weeks ago, when travelling back from Newcastle.

 

[yorkie]

Haven't had that announcement on LNER,...

Half the passengers are booked into aisle seats.

It's just some train companies/staff who go on about "window seats only"; LNER is definitely not a culprit, and I say that with much experience of travel on LNER lately.

I witnessed an incredibly rude XC Guard split up a couple the other day; he is recognisable so I will be looking out for him in future and keeping an eye out on his future conduct...

 

[Freightmaster]

I witnessed an incredibly rude XC Guard split up a couple the other day...

Why on earth did the couple comply? Surely the best approach in these cases
('jobsworth' staff member behaving arrogantly) is just to politely refuse and
continue to sit together?

Out of curiosity, why are XC raking this aggressive (and regressive!) stance towards
their own customers - what does it achieve from a business point of view?




MARK

 

[Кряква]

Different operators do seem to be acting very differently indeed.

I had a particularly "keen" staff member on an LNER service travelling into London the other day.

Constantly roaming up and down the carriage, asking people to move seats, tannoy announcements seemingly every minute waffling on about BTP presence at stations enforcing masks, quoting the exact price of a penalty fare, generally just being a miserable git. Hopefully an isolated incident - if the next train I take has similar I'll be seeking alternative modes of transport or using different operators where possible.

 

[_toommm_]

I've seen this on xc services down south as well and must admit that I've rather scratched my head as to how this has been sanctioned unless the whole coach is being locked out of use and that itself brings into question the trolley staff and passengers queuing in that coach. I assume that xc ops standards have a view on this!

They’re not locked out of us, merely marked as ‘Not for public use’. The exterior doors enable like any of the others, with catering staff regularly opening the door to tell people to use the other ones.

Similarly, the interior doors are still in use to allow people to use the static trolley.

As for the mandatory reservations, just point blank ignore them. I’ve travelled a good 1,500 miles with XC over the past two months and not once been asked for a reservation. The fact that they have a whole unreservable half of the train puts weight behind them being unenforceable

 

[island]

Different operators do seem to be acting very differently indeed.

I had a particularly "keen" staff member on an LNER service travelling into London the other day.

Constantly roaming up and down the carriage, asking people to move seats, tannoy announcements seemingly every minute waffling on about BTP presence at stations enforcing masks, quoting the exact price of a penalty fare, generally just being a miserable git. Hopefully an isolated incident - if the next train I take has similar I'll be seeking alternative modes of transport or using different operators where possible.

LNER doesn’t even issue penalty fares.

 

[Goldfish62]

I just find it utterly bizarre that different TOCs have such differing rules, especially as the government is now effectively in day-to-day charge of the railways.

Eg:

LNER: it is an offense to even bring your own alcohol on board.
AWC: You can buy alcohol on board and it's given away free to 1st Class passengers.

Utter lunacy!

 

[Huntergreed]

I just find it utterly bizarre that different TOCs have such differing rules, especially as the government is now effectively in day-to-day charge of the railways.

Eg:

LNER: it is an offense to even bring your own alcohol on board.
AWC: You can buy alcohol on board and it's given away free to 1st Class passengers.

Utter lunacy!

Indeed, and even within TOC’s you can see differences depending on which guard you have.

I took an LNER and I was initially told I must stay in my reserved seat, then another guard joined and it suddenly changed to ignore reservations and sit in the window seats.

Same with the masks, the first guard was fine with eating/drinking, the second one said this should be kept to a minimum. It’s ridiculous how even within companies these different policies are being enforced.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Avanti West Coast's rule are really confusing me. I still can't work out if you need a reservation to travel on one of their trains or not. I heard an announcement and a train manager on one of their trains say you do, but then on their website they say its recommended, and all other staff members say you don't, and even one Avanti Staff Member said the whole situation was completely confusing him too and he wasn't sure.

Does anyone here know what the stance is?

The reason for it being, that I've got a season ticket and the times I leave work will vary and I don't know what trains I will catch everyday meaning I can't reserve seats for a specific train.