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Train Reporting Numbers on the Continent
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StephenHunter
Established Member
It's generally a letters-number system. There are plenty of examples here: vagonWEB
(NB this site will only be partially updated from the timetable change - the admin doesn't have the time to make all the corrections needed now)
(NB this site will only be partially updated from the timetable change - the admin doesn't have the time to make all the corrections needed now)
thanks for that but i was thinking more on how the systems work, e.g. if you ran a brand new route (e.g. Berlin-Paris or Milan-Barcalona) how would you decide its number?
biko
Member
I can’t fully answer this but I do know that for example in the Netherlands some ranges of numbers are reserved for international trains. Not all of those are taken so I presume any new service must use a number that is free is any of the countries it passes through. Also, it happens that trains switch number on the border, so that’s an option when it doesn’t fit.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
The European Rail Timetable lists all the numbers for the many services it shows.
You can discern a pattern in specific countries and on specific routes, as well as odd/even numbers for different directions.
Cross-border trains might change number at the border, but there is usually a correlation between the numbers (eg international ECxxx might become national ICxxx).
There's an increasing tendency for numbers to fit the train type (eg RJ trains running as RJ in Italy and CZ as well as in Austria; or ICE trains in France, Belgium and NL).
Fragezeichnen
Member
For Germany it is explained in great detail here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugnummer
Briefly, the numbers are divided in blocks, with the lowest numbers for international trains subdivided into country pairs(so that the other country can reserve the same set)*, then long distance trains divided by line number and time of day, then there are blocks for regional, charter and cargo services. Regional trains often have 5 digit numbers, but that doesn't matter too much because there are no service-specific tickets or reservations and usually the line number(e.g. RE1) is used in preference to the service number.
If you were starting a new daily train pair, you would pick two consecutive mumbers from the appropriate number block available to the operating company.
*France, as per usual, does not participate in this country pairing. Also any remaining SNCF services which *SHOCK HORROR* don't consistently follow a route heading towards or away from Paris have to have two different train numbers which they swap between as required during the trip, one for 'to Paris' and one for 'away from Paris'.
Briefly, the numbers are divided in blocks, with the lowest numbers for international trains subdivided into country pairs(so that the other country can reserve the same set)*, then long distance trains divided by line number and time of day, then there are blocks for regional, charter and cargo services. Regional trains often have 5 digit numbers, but that doesn't matter too much because there are no service-specific tickets or reservations and usually the line number(e.g. RE1) is used in preference to the service number.
If you were starting a new daily train pair, you would pick two consecutive mumbers from the appropriate number block available to the operating company.
*France, as per usual, does not participate in this country pairing. Also any remaining SNCF services which *SHOCK HORROR* don't consistently follow a route heading towards or away from Paris have to have two different train numbers which they swap between as required during the trip, one for 'to Paris' and one for 'away from Paris'.
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Oh that's a shame as it is an incredible resource. But equally it must take a lot of time and effort to run it as well as it is so I can understand if the admin didn't have that time anymore!
That accords from what I remember of German train numbering: I recall the ICEs to Brussels having very low two-digit numbers (ICE 14 is one, if I remember right) then domestic IC/ICEs having three-digit numbers typically, four-digit for semi-fast services and five-digit for locals.
Interesting that both continental Europe and Amtrak appear to adopt this style of digit-only train numbering, and the train numbers are typically published in public-facing timetables - but the UK never has. While a traveller in Germany might know what EC101 is, or a traveller in the US might know what Train 96 (arbitrary example - not sure if it actually exists) is, a UK traveller would not know what 1M32 is! Also the UK ones are not, I believe, unique. We've never had "The train at platform 1 is the IC 101 06:00 Euston to Manchester...."
D6130
Established Member
The convention in Italy is that International (EC or NJ) trains have two digit numbers, internal InterCity services have three digit numbers (except for peak dated relief services, which have four or five digit numbers....usually corresponding to the number of the normal service which they relieve, e.g. a relief service to train IC 563 would be numbered either IC 1563 or sometimes IC 13563, if only covering part of the route. Regionale Veloce (RV, semi-fast regional and inter-regional services) have four digit numbers and Regionale (local) services have five digit numbers. High speed services - both Trenitalia and Italo - have four digit numbers in the 8xxx and 9xxx series (99xx in the case of Italo). Generally speaking, as in France, the numbers of 'down' trains ('impari' - odd) end in odd numbers and the numbers of 'up' trains ('pari' - even) end in even numbers. Where a train reverses en route, it will be allocated two seperate numbers for the two legs of the journey, e.g. IC 588/589. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule and the SNCF-operated TGV services between Paris and Torino/Milano have numbers in the EC 924x series, even though they don't run on Italian high speed lines. IIRC, the train numbers for international services are allocated by the UIC, in consultation with the national railway administrations concerned.
Yes, it's unquestionably a huge piece of work, but of such value too.
DanielB
Established Member
The Dutch system is pretty well explained here: https://wiki.ovinnederland.nl/wiki/Treinnummering
In general: first two or three numbers are assigned to a route and the last two digits indicate approximately the time: they start counting at 4.00 hrs at 01/02 and every 30 minutes the number is increased by 2. Odd numbers are one direction, even numbers the other direction.
So an hourly train service that runs as of 5.00 hrs would have the first two trains in direction A numbered as 1905 and 1909 for example.
Usually the numbers of connecting trains are linked in some way, meaning train 569 would connect onto 769 in Zwolle for example.
International trains don't follow that logic however.
In general: first two or three numbers are assigned to a route and the last two digits indicate approximately the time: they start counting at 4.00 hrs at 01/02 and every 30 minutes the number is increased by 2. Odd numbers are one direction, even numbers the other direction.
So an hourly train service that runs as of 5.00 hrs would have the first two trains in direction A numbered as 1905 and 1909 for example.
Usually the numbers of connecting trains are linked in some way, meaning train 569 would connect onto 769 in Zwolle for example.
International trains don't follow that logic however.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Quite a number of countries have route numbers for all their lines, and this might figure in the way trains are identified.
That's the infrastructure operator defining the route, not the TOC.
Such detail is included in the Schweers and Wall maps, for instance.
Eurostar reporting numbers fit into the standard pattern for each of GB/FR/BE/NL.
Our domestic train reporting idents seem to have got less unique, with what were fixed regional destination letters seemingly now being used all over the place.
Train class is less obvious now that class "9" is used to distinguish particular routes and service patterns (and Eurostar).
No doubt HS2 will invent something unique.
That's the infrastructure operator defining the route, not the TOC.
Such detail is included in the Schweers and Wall maps, for instance.
Eurostar reporting numbers fit into the standard pattern for each of GB/FR/BE/NL.
Our domestic train reporting idents seem to have got less unique, with what were fixed regional destination letters seemingly now being used all over the place.
Train class is less obvious now that class "9" is used to distinguish particular routes and service patterns (and Eurostar).
No doubt HS2 will invent something unique.
DanielB
Established Member
That's a kind of trick indeed: 90xx as that looks similar to the UK headcode 9Oxx. And similarly 91xx for what's 9Ixx in the UK.
biko
Member
Not fully true, as the IC(E)s in the Netherlands have three-digit numbers. IC Berlin is 14x and 24x and ICE is I believe 12x and 10x
DanielB
Established Member
The low numbers for ICEs to Belgium probably have to do with the Belgian train number system having much more low three digit numbers in use for domestic trains. That means that the regular ICE numbers don't fit.
In The Netherlands the three digit German numbers can easily be applied for international trains to Germany, as there are no domestic trains with low three digit numbers (those start from 500). That's also the reason why the ICE, IC and Nightjet trains to Germany deviate from the standard numbering conventions in The Netherlands.
It seems to have something to do with the main operator on a specific route: the DB and OeBB services towards Germany are numbered according to the German scheme despite NS providing traction, IC Amsterdam - Brussels is numbered according to the Dutch scheme, Thalys and Eurostar neither in the Dutch and Belgian system.
Maybe interesting: this map shows all train series (route numbers) in The Netherlands. Thick lines are half-hourly and thin ones hourly.
In The Netherlands the three digit German numbers can easily be applied for international trains to Germany, as there are no domestic trains with low three digit numbers (those start from 500). That's also the reason why the ICE, IC and Nightjet trains to Germany deviate from the standard numbering conventions in The Netherlands.
It seems to have something to do with the main operator on a specific route: the DB and OeBB services towards Germany are numbered according to the German scheme despite NS providing traction, IC Amsterdam - Brussels is numbered according to the Dutch scheme, Thalys and Eurostar neither in the Dutch and Belgian system.
Maybe interesting: this map shows all train series (route numbers) in The Netherlands. Thick lines are half-hourly and thin ones hourly.
Only the first tranche of Brussels services have 2-digit numbers (as do services to Vienna), the later additions are in the 300s; there are plenty of ICs and some ICEs with 4-digit numbers.
The important point is that - unlike the UK - numbers are not repeated across the country (not sure about S-bahns) and across category (so if there is an ICE 2200 there won't be an RE2200. I think this applies across Europe.
Poland is different, with international services having an "external" number to fit with their neighbours and two unrelated 5-digit internal numbers (on the French/Italian model, according to direction).
D6130
Established Member
This is logical because the train describers in European signalboxes and signalling centres only show the digits and not the letters. Therefore ICE 2200 would appear on the control panel/VDU as simply '2200'.
StephenHunter
Established Member
Is that how a Dutch signaller managed to put the IC Berlin service into a terminus platform at Hengelo a while back?
biko
Member
Don't think so, as an IC Berlin service has a 14x or 24x number, while the normal service into the bay platform in Hengelo (RB 61) is numbered 203xx.
D6130
Established Member
......and the driver took it?
DanielB
Established Member
No, that was the coincidence of the IC Berlin being handed over by the German signaller to his Dutch colleague having a delay, resulting in it being mistaken for the RB61 that usually would pass the border at that specific time.
There are exceptions however where only half of a range is used, which for example is the case in this instance mentioned by biko...
No, that's the 2035x. Being an exception with only half a range used for the RB61, the 2030x-range is used for the RE18 Maastricht - Aachen.
The same exception applies to the Enschede - Gronau line where there is a 2025x (RB51 to Dortmund) and a 2020x (RB64 to Münster). So in those cases there is some overlap in the ranges, although the same train number will only occur once.
biko
Member
As the numbers for the RB61 stretch from 20350 to 20389, the last 2 digits vary, so that's why I used 203xx
. It doesn't however change my point which was that the numbers for the RB61 and IC are totally different.Speed signalling, so there's no automatic expectation that the driver will be able to avoid being misrouted. There was a thread on the incident in this forum at the time.
biko
Member
D6130
Established Member
Thanks.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Thanks. Very interesting.
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In Sweden all operators are allocated a block of numbers and can then assign a number to each of their trains as they like as long as they follow the general rule that southbound trains use odd numbers and northbound trains use even number. It also means that a train can change number along the route. If you plan to start a new service you simply pick a few of the unused numbers you have.
Austriantrain
Established Member
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It is only numbers. The letters identify the kind of train service (IC, ICE, TGV, RJ etc) but this is really meant for passengers. Operationally, trains are only identified by numbers.
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