Train ran fast with no warning causing passengers to be overcarried (10/11/25)

[BrianW]

Yes, but this is the railway industry… Train PIS systems in almost all cases don’t automatically update when stops are removed/added, can’t cope with diversions etc., even though the PIS in my pocket (my phone) will do this without issue.

Presumably the creation of Great British Railway will bring standardisation of future stock to a common specification that eliminates such issues. I seem to recall seing something along those lines in the summary to the Strategy ( Parallel thread).

 

[TUC]

Presumably the creation of Great British Railway will bring standardisation of future stock to a common specification that eliminates such issues. I seem to recall seing something along those lines in the summary to the Strategy ( Parallel thread).

The notion that creating a national body results in standardised and quick roll out of IT infrastructure is not borne out by reality across multiple public services.

 

[uglymonkey]

Reminds me of the Apollo 13 story, with cylindrical CO2 scrubber cartridges in the LEM and square ones in the command module ( or vice versa, can't remember!)

 

[spp]

From watching my fellow passengers I'd say that wearing headphones, and staring at little screens, is the main reason why people miss announcements and on screen information.

God forbid people might want to choose to use their travel time (travel that they’ve paid a lot of money for) as they see fit and actually expect a train to stop at a station it was announced to without having to make sure they listen out for grainy often inaudible announcements or stare at a train display (that are unreliable anyway as often during splay wrong stations/wrong directions of travel).

If it’s not possible for an employee to walk through ensuring every passenger is informed then a train shouldn’t skip stops.

 

[AlexRail575]

Presumably the creation of Great British Railway will bring standardisation of future stock to a common specification that eliminates such issues. I seem to recall seing something along those lines in the summary to the Strategy ( Parallel thread).

Unfortunately, while there might eventually be some common specification, it could even then take a while until it gets rolled out to all rolling stock... And that's assuming such a standard is an improvement &c, and that it is viable to retrofit/update the software, so on so forth. Real life usually isn't quite that simple. See also: https://xkcd.com/927/

 

[Class73Electro]

I was on a journey on Sunday that was caught up in some level crossing issues. The guard announcement could hardly be heard from the very muffled and quiet speaker (Southern Class 377 Electrostar). I have noise cancelling headphones, and fund it was actually easier to hear (well I say easier, I sill couldn't hear a thing!) with the noise cancelling on as it cut out the background train and other general noises. Managed to catch the word red light and just about interpret what was happening (helped it was mentioned at the departing station).

But I have had a few trains now where the guard speaker(?) can't be heard, yet the automated announcements are still loud and clear.

Edit: Also, the overhead announcement board in my direction wasn't working either!

 

[Bikeman78]

But then what is the solution to this.
Passengers and I include myself in this make the decision to accept accountability and be alert, don’t wear earphones and regularly check the screens or the guard walks down the whole of the train tapping everyone on the shoulder and delivering the message personally. That would take forever especially as they would end up being mobbed with questions.

It’s really unfortunate that this happens at times but with the screens and the PA it’s really up to us as passengers to be alert.

I'd question the sense of missing out stops when the train was only nine minutes late. Especially when the next option from Preston Park, Hassocks and Burgess Hill (9T62) was also cancelled. 1H62 made up a mere three minutes to Haywards Heath. Is that really worth the inconvenience to affected passengers who would be delayed a lot more than three minutes?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==

I’ve never seen anything come up on the screens on either a 387 or 700. The calling patterns can be modified, but all I’ve ever seen that do is change the normal messages. I’ve never seen anything to specifically draw attention to the alteration.

It doesn’t help that on the 387s the calling point announcements are played so many times that most people will just tune out to them.

On 375/377/387, the calling pattern scrolls across almost constantly. Is anyone really going to notice if it changes? Unless they are staring at it.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

A shame that so many new trains are entering service with information systems that lack a most basic feature - a connection to the real-time system.

As soon as the timetable is amended, it should appear and be announced on the train. This would take some work away from busy staff.

At least these systems are more upgradeable than a lot of equipment, so there is hope. Ways for passengers to keep informed, sometimes earlier than staff, already exist and are on your phone.

And with announcements, less is definitely more. SWR, looking at you.

 

[james_the_xv]

A shame that so many new trains are entering service with information systems that lack a most basic feature - a connection to the real-time system. As soon as the timetable is amended, it should appear and be announced on the train. This would take some work away from busy staff. At least these systems are more upgradeable than a lot of equipment, so there is hope. Ways for passengers to keep informed, sometimes earlier than staff, already exist and are on your phone. And with announcements, less is definitely more. SWR, looking at you.

Something similar seems to happen pretty well on London Northwestern 350s, quite often when a late call to skip-stops on the the Coventry Corridor the PIS has updated before the senior conductor has had a chance to make an announcement. I wonder if it's done automatically (by control) or manually by the SC?

 

[Magdalia]

A shame that so many new trains are entering service with information systems that lack a most basic feature

Class 700s are not new trains. The first was delivered 10 years ago and the design spec goes back a further 4 years.

If it’s not possible for an employee to walk through ensuring every passenger is informed then a train shouldn’t skip stops.

Be careful what you wish for. Thameslink is a DOO railway, this would just mean more cancellations.

 

[zero]

If there's anyone with poor English on board, none of the proposed solutions will work apart from a staff member personally asking each passenger, which as mentioned won't be happening on DOO trains.

I was on a train in Switzerland where this happened and the guard made an announcements in German and French which were hard to understand because of the poor quality of the PA system, I barely caught some of the French words. He then walked through the train asking everyone where they were going, and had to explain the issue in English multiple times, and some of the passengers still expressed confusion when the train passed through the skipped stops.

 

[david1212]

I have a similar problem, hearing loss and tinitus mean train announcements are a real problem for me. I can hear someone is talking, just cant make out the words, compounded by the general train noise and less than perfect PA systems. This is then made worse by the general drone of spam announcements, warning me rain is wet, there are gaps at platforms, I must have a ticket, and to text a number if I see anything etc.

I kniow this has been covered before, but it is a real problem for those with hearing impairment. Firstly hearing aids only help to a point, if there is a lot of background noise or the input sound is distorted (typical ropey train PA) then they just make the noise louder, remember rubbish in = rubbish out.

If I know I need to listen I can concentrate, but look up something called Hearing exhaustion, fine for one announcement, not a solution for the usual drone of rubbish, so I tend to switch off and resort to noise cancelling ear buds, particularly on a long journey.

On a recent (last weekend) 30 minute journey back from Scarborough there were about 15 minutes of drone, to the point where a conversation with my wife was impossible.

What could be done:

Remove the drone of spam announcements, only announcements relevant to the current journey should be made "This train is for XYZ, the next stop is ABC", "We are approaching ABC", and "This train calls at ..."
when stopped at a station, are fine anything else should not be made.

Preceed anything out of sequence which needs immediate passenger reaction or conveys immediate information with a bing bong sound, similar to that used on SNCF, it gives those of us with impaired hearing time to switch on mentally and concentrate. Anything else should be relegated to the displays at the end of carriages, with a hearing loop and audio backup for those with sight loss. I can program my phone to recognise the bing bong sound.

Ensure that PA equipment is properly maintained and clear. Consider duplicating important announcements on the in carriage displays similar to closed caption displays, the software exists and is in regular use in other areas of our lives, its not rocket science, yes sometimes the words can get a bit jumbled, but generally sense can be made of it.

None of these things would cost vast sums of money, but would help hearing impaired people, and I think would improve the environment for everyone.

Text messages rely on a phone signal, Wi Fi where it exists could provide the message service to your phone, perhaps in conjunction with an app which 'listens' in the background. Its possible, just needs someone to develop and deploy.

Rather concerningly the ToCs dont seem interested, in spite of the potential safety implications.

My hearing impairment is similar. First tinnitus and second losses within the core speech frequency spectrum, think of Hi-Fi back 30 or so years ago with a graphic equaliser set with a deep cut at around 1.5kHz. First I too have to try and hear at least most of the words then make a sentence / statement. Simply increasing the volume of my hearing aids only works when what is need to hear is quieter and there is no of little background noise. Otherwise more likely to actually be able to pick out less. Fatigue is a problem too anywhere that is not quiet hence often I take the aids out. Now of course no time to switch on and in for an unexpected announcement. I rely on displays but accept these can not show unplanned changes.

..... a member of staff walking through the train advising the old fashioned way (PA wasn't even fitted on most trains on the line until 40 years ago)

On a 12 car Thameslink driver only train, who is doing that?

Driver Only Operation is discriminatory to all who in some way need support even if only in abnormal / unplanned situations.

 

[Mattplans]

I'd disagree; in recent months I've been on three Thameslinks which have been run fast to make up time; one was non stop between Wimbledon and Sutton, one was non stop from Herne Hill to Sutton via Mitcham and one was non stop from Sutton to Wimbledon.

In all three cases, while the platform screens correctly gave the skip stop details from several stops prior to the fast section, the on board screens continued to display and announce all the stops that the train was no longer calling at.

Where did you get on? If the decision to skip stops was already displayed when you boarded, is it really necessary for the driver to make that announcement again at every stop? Considering excessive announcements have been mentioned on this thread. If the decision to run semi/fast is made at West Hampstead, and you’ve boarded at Farringdon, you’ve already seen the alterations and everyone boarding after West Hamps (assuming the screens have updated) should know it’s altered. Assuming the driver has made an announcement at West Hampstead when the train was altered, passengers there and from earlier stations know it was altered. How necessary is it for the driver to keep repeating that announcement?

That’s assuming the decision was made before you boarded in your case. And you weren’t alerted to the alterations by listening carefully to the announcements playing at the stations you arrived at.

In my experience, it’s been made clear when a Thameslink train is not running its usual route. I appreciate that isn’t the same for all cases. Sometimes, the trains will display a “listen for announcement” message internally which is accompanied by a “Check Station Screens” (instead of destination) message on the outside, alerting passengers that something is amiss.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Where did you get on? If the decision to skip stops was already displayed when you boarded, is it really necessary for the driver to make that announcement again at every stop? Considering excessive announcements have been mentioned on this thread. If the decision to run semi/fast is made at West Hampstead, and you’ve boarded at Farringdon, you’ve already seen the alterations and everyone boarding after West Hamps (assuming the screens have updated) should know it’s altered. Assuming the driver has made an announcement at West Hampstead when the train was altered, passengers there and from earlier stations know it was altered. How necessary is it for the driver to keep repeating that announcement?

That’s assuming the decision was made before you boarded in your case. And you weren’t alerted to the alterations by listening carefully to the announcements playing at the stations you arrived at.

In my experience, it’s been made clear when a Thameslink train is not running its usual route. I appreciate that isn’t the same for all cases. Sometimes, the trains will display a “listen for announcement” message internally which is accompanied by a “Check Station Screens” (instead of destination) message on the outside, alerting passengers that something is amiss.

In the one fast from Herne Hill, I was on from St Pancras. I sat on the left hand side and could see the screens on the platforms up to and including Elephant and Castle were also showing the fast run. At Herne Hill, the internal screens and announcements were still giving all the intermediate stations. Quite a few people did get up and walk to the doors on the approach at Tulse Hill and Streatham...

For the fast runs round the loop, I boarded them at Wimbledon and Sutton, so I can't answer for the preceeding stations, but the train systems did come up with the "we are now approaching..." guff at every station...

 

[WAB]

A shame that so many new trains are entering service with information systems that lack a most basic feature - a connection to the real-time system. As soon as the timetable is amended, it should appear and be announced on the train. This would take some work away from busy staff. At least these systems are more upgradeable than a lot of equipment, so there is hope. Ways for passengers to keep informed, sometimes earlier than staff, already exist and are on your phone. And with announcements, less is definitely more. SWR, looking at you.

195s and 197s are linked to Darwin, so calling pattern and destination changes are reflected as soon as they are put on station screens etc. This means that the auto announcers are often the first way the guards find out about any changes.

 

[TUC]

If there's anyone with poor English on board, none of the proposed solutions will work apart from a staff member personally asking each passenger, which as mentioned won't be happening on DOO trains.

I was on a train in Switzerland where this happened and the guard made an announcements in German and French which were hard to understand because of the poor quality of the PA system, I barely caught some of the French words. He then walked through the train asking everyone where they were going, and had to explain the issue in English multiple times, and some of the passengers still expressed confusion when the train passed through the skipped stops.

I don't think responsibility extends to ensuring announcements are made in multiple languages. It's fair enough that they are made in the language for the country one is in.

 

[AlexRail575]

I don't think responsibility extends to ensuring announcements are made in multiple languages. It's fair enough that they are made in the language for the country one is in.

Switzerland is also a pretty unique (flawed, when one thinks about the mostly monolingual inhabitants of ol' Albion) case due to the diverse linguistic makeup of the country itself and relatively peaceful cohabitation (unlike in my native Canada - I always struggle to stifle a smile when I hear the pre-recorded station announcement in the Montreal Metro for "Square-Victoria-OACI", pronounced something like [skwaʁ] instead of the English [skwɛː(ɹ)], although that particular announcement has zero safety implications).

Otherwise, English as it stands is the global lingua franca (having replaced French in that function during the 20th century), and its use is already pretty standard in some areas of transportation where international travel is more frequent (shipping and air travel). There's maybe a case to be made, although for rail travel this will obviously affect very few people (i.e. foreigners travelling on local stopping services...). Then again, speaking several languages fluently myself, there's nothing preventing anyone from making to effort to learn the local linguo...