Train ran fast with no warning causing passengers to be overcarried (10/11/25)

[SECR263]

The 2012 Littlehampton to Victoria tonight was held at Angmering due to passenger communication alarm being pulled.

To make up time after Hove, the train ran fast to Haywards Heath with those on board for Preston Park etc stuck on the train, with no notice until Haywards Heath, where the OBS said they could get a train back.

Is it acceptable to overcarry passengers with no notice just to keep train to time?.

 

[james_the_xv]

It should have been announced over the PA before leaving the last stop before skip-stopping. If any passenger has been over carried they should be able to complete their journey on their ticket and be able to claim delay repay. Will also be worth making a complaint to the operator.

 

[JohnElliott]

My other half tends to get overcarried when Thameslink trains skip stops on the way to Brighton, because she has a hearing impairment that makes it difficult for her to hear ad-hoc PA announcements. I've occasionally wondered if an alternative way could be found to alert passengers, perhaps a means of registering for text alerts of last-minute schedule changes to a specific train.

 

[yorkie]

The 2012 Littlehampton to Victoria tonight was held at Angmering due to passenger communication alarm being pulled.

Not at at Goring by Sea?

Were you on it?

To make up time after Hove, the train ran fast to Haywards Heath with those on board for Preston Park etc stuck on the train, with no notice until Haywards Heath, where the OBS said they could get a train back.

Is it acceptable to overcarry passengers with no notice just to keep train to time?.

Passengers for all but Preston Park got there quicker by staying on, than if they had changed at Hove and Brighton.

Preston Park passengers didn't miss out by much.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Nov 2025 ==

. I've occasionally wondered if an alternative way could be found to alert passengers, perhaps a means of registering for text alerts of last-minute schedule changes to a specific train.

That's unlikely to work in time, but feel free to make any such proposals in the Speculative Discussion section.

 

[bluenoxid]

My other half tends to get overcarried when Thameslink trains skip stops on the way to Brighton, because she has a hearing impairment that makes it difficult for her to hear ad-hoc PA announcements. I've occasionally wondered if an alternative way could be found to alert passengers, perhaps a means of registering for text alerts of last-minute schedule changes to a specific train.

It is an idea but might not be as reliable or responsive as passengers might need.

An in train option might be to switch the saloon lights on and off three times with the passenger information screens displaying urgent message, then scroll with the updated calling pattern.

 

[TUC]

It can be a real issue for disabled passengers if they unexpectedly end up at a different station than planned, with no assistance in place.

 

[Magdalia]

My other half tends to get overcarried when Thameslink trains skip stops on the way to Brighton, because she has a hearing impairment that makes it difficult for her to hear ad-hoc PA announcements. I've occasionally wondered if an alternative way could be found to alert passengers, perhaps a means of registering for text alerts of last-minute schedule changes to a specific train.

In my experience Thameslink are very good at providing information on skip stopping. On the train this is displayed on the passenger information screens, though it does require the patience to watch everything else that is there too. The core station platform passenger information is even better, with skipped stations remaining on the departure screens but with a strikethrough line to show that they are not stopping.

 

[Snow1964]

My other half tends to get overcarried when Thameslink trains skip stops on the way to Brighton, because she has a hearing impairment that makes it difficult for her to hear ad-hoc PA announcements. I've occasionally wondered if an alternative way could be found to alert passengers, perhaps a means of registering for text alerts of last-minute schedule changes to a specific train.

That is a blatant disability issue, only announcing over PA, but not free typing a message on the visual display, or if can't update the screens, a member of staff walking through the train advising the old fashioned way (PA wasn't even fitted on most trains on the line until 40 years ago)

 

[AlexRail575]

My other half tends to get overcarried when Thameslink trains skip stops on the way to Brighton, because she has a hearing impairment that makes it difficult for her to hear ad-hoc PA announcements. I've occasionally wondered if an alternative way could be found to alert passengers, perhaps a means of registering for text alerts of last-minute schedule changes to a specific train.

The simple solution is to have pre-recorded PA messages of the type "Due to [xyz reason], this train will skip some planned station stops [or: the next planned station stop]." Nothing speculative or particularly ground-breaking with that; I've heard a similar style of default announcement (several times, now) in a bus I take frequently, either due to it being on an alternate course due to planned road works and closures or even from unplanned diversions such as for ex. police/firefighter activity blocking off a street.

Of course, this is also the kind of thing which should definitively also be displayed on visual displays if they're available.

 

[Magdalia]

a member of staff walking through the train advising the old fashioned way

On a 12 car Thameslink driver only train, who is doing that?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==

Of course, this is also the kind of thing which should definitively also be displayed on visual displays if they're available.

On Thameslink that is what happens.

 

[Snow1964]

On a 12 car Thameslink driver only train, who is doing that?

If the driver cannot inform the passengers with hearing issues about the late change of calling pattern, and ensure those with assistance at the missed stops get an alternative. Should they still do it anyway or advise control, because control might not have factored this in to their decision.

If even one person gets over carried then presumably the message was not conveyed clearly. Surely these messages need to be issued properly and repeated, not garbled amongst routine messages which need to be paused.

 

[mike57]

My other half tends to get overcarried when Thameslink trains skip stops on the way to Brighton, because she has a hearing impairment that makes it difficult for her to hear ad-hoc PA announcements. I've occasionally wondered if an alternative way could be found to alert passengers, perhaps a means of registering for text alerts of last-minute schedule changes to a specific train.

I have a similar problem, hearing loss and tinitus mean train announcements are a real problem for me. I can hear someone is talking, just cant make out the words, compounded by the general train noise and less than perfect PA systems. This is then made worse by the general drone of spam announcements, warning me rain is wet, there are gaps at platforms, I must have a ticket, and to text a number if I see anything etc.

I kniow this has been covered before, but it is a real problem for those with hearing impairment. Firstly hearing aids only help to a point, if there is a lot of background noise or the input sound is distorted (typical ropey train PA) then they just make the noise louder, remember rubbish in = rubbish out.

If I know I need to listen I can concentrate, but look up something called Hearing exhaustion, fine for one announcement, not a solution for the usual drone of rubbish, so I tend to switch off and resort to noise cancelling ear buds, particularly on a long journey.

On a recent (last weekend) 30 minute journey back from Scarborough there were about 15 minutes of drone, to the point where a conversation with my wife was impossible.

What could be done:

Remove the drone of spam announcements, only announcements relevant to the current journey should be made "This train is for XYZ, the next stop is ABC", "We are approaching ABC", and "This train calls at ..."
when stopped at a station, are fine anything else should not be made.

Preceed anything out of sequence which needs immediate passenger reaction or conveys immediate information with a bing bong sound, similar to that used on SNCF, it gives those of us with impaired hearing time to switch on mentally and concentrate. Anything else should be relegated to the displays at the end of carriages, with a hearing loop and audio backup for those with sight loss. I can program my phone to recognise the bing bong sound.

Ensure that PA equipment is properly maintained and clear. Consider duplicating important announcements on the in carriage displays similar to closed caption displays, the software exists and is in regular use in other areas of our lives, its not rocket science, yes sometimes the words can get a bit jumbled, but generally sense can be made of it.

None of these things would cost vast sums of money, but would help hearing impaired people, and I think would improve the environment for everyone.

Text messages rely on a phone signal, Wi Fi where it exists could provide the message service to your phone, perhaps in conjunction with an app which 'listens' in the background. Its possible, just needs someone to develop and deploy.

Rather concerningly the ToCs dont seem interested, in spite of the potential safety implications.

 

[AverageJoe]

If the driver cannot inform the passengers with hearing issues about the late change of calling pattern, and ensure those with assistance at the missed stops get an alternative. Should they still do it anyway or advise control, because control might not have factored this in to their decision.

If even one person gets over carried then presumably the message was not conveyed clearly. Surely these messages need to be issued properly and repeated, not garbled amongst routine messages which need to be paused.

If that is the case the driver will never know if someone with hearing difficulties is on board so the toc need to make a decision company wide how this should be handled. No point in the driver having to have this conversation with control each time.

Most people don’t hear announcements anyway because of earphones or just not even paying attention to announcements.

I’ve been on trains where multiple announcements are made about a delay or change of stopping pattern and people that weren’t wearing earphones then start to complain because no announcement was made, they just zone it out.

 

[Viper]

At what point does overcarrying without an announcement become kidnap?

 

[AverageJoe]

At what point does overcarrying without an announcement become kidnap?

The question is, was there an announcement or did it just become background noise for the passenger?

I’ve seen driver/guard accused of missing a station stop when they actually did stop there and people boarded and alighted.
The passenger complaining was just too engrossed in their phone or laptop or whatever.

 

[Magdalia]

If the driver cannot inform the passengers with hearing issues about the late change of calling pattern

That's done via the on train passenger information screens. On Thameslink trains they are very good, but it does require people to actually look at them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==

I have a similar problem, hearing loss and tinitus mean train announcements are a real problem for me. I can hear someone is talking, just cant make out the words, compounded by the general train noise and less than perfect PA systems.

On a Thameslink train, that will alert you to the need to pay attention to what is being displayed on the on train passenger information screens.

 

[bramling]

In my experience Thameslink are very good at providing information on skip stopping. On the train this is displayed on the passenger information screens, though it does require the patience to watch everything else that is there too. The core station platform passenger information is even better, with skipped stations remaining on the departure screens but with a strikethrough line to show that they are not stopping.

I agree the information is generally fairly good at being provided on information systems. But where a journey is amended at short notice, communicating it to people already on the train is less good - especially as the PA systems on the trains are rather indifferent.

I was on a train which was amended to run non-stop Stevenage to Peterborough, and I’m sure a lot of people ended up in Peterborough, as the number that remained on board as the train left Stevenage was way higher than you’d expect to be travelling to Peterborough. Likewise I’ve been on 387s which have been amended to run non-stop Stevenage or Welwyn to London, where I’ve then seen people standing up to alight at Hatfield.

If you’re wearing headphones or the train is full of loud passengers then your changes of missing an announcement are high.

 

[speedy1]

At what point does overcarrying without an announcement become kidnap?

Haha maybe when a revenue inspector demands money for returning to your original destination ??

 

[The exile]

If even one person gets over carried then presumably the message was not conveyed clearly. Surely these messages need to be issued properly and repeated, not garbled amongst routine messages which need to be paused.

That’s once you have excluded all those with headphones on or carrying on conversations so loud that not only those involved won’t understand the announcement but those around them won’t either. That said - a volume check of the manual announcements in every carriage needs to be part of the entry into service routine. Too often they are almost inaudible.

 

[Vexed]

That's done via the on train passenger information screens. On Thameslink trains they are very good, but it does require people to actually look at them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2025 ==


On a Thameslink train, that will alert you to the need to pay attention to what is being displayed on the on train passenger information screens.

I'm not convinced drivers regularly update changes to calling patterns are updated in the on train screens, I can't recall it on a 700 specifically. Maybe it's changed recently, I haven't used Thameslink as much in the last year.

Platform screens, yes, these usually update in good time, often before the driver's announcement! And if the platform screens have updated this usually means most real-time apps would have the changes as well (except RTT as they use different data sources).

 

[AverageJoe]

I agree the information is generally fairly good at being provided on information systems. But where a journey is amended at short notice, communicating it to people already on the train is less good - especially as the PA systems on the trains are rather indifferent.

I was on a train which was amended to run non-stop Stevenage to Peterborough, and I’m sure a lot of people ended up in Peterborough, as the number that remained on board as the train left Stevenage was way higher than you’d expect to be travelling to Peterborough. Likewise I’ve been on 387s which have been amended to run non-stop Stevenage or Welwyn to London, where I’ve then seen people standing up to alight at Hatfield.

If you’re wearing headphones or the train is full of loud passengers then your changes of missing an announcement are high.

But then what is the solution to this.
Passengers and I include myself in this make the decision to accept accountability and be alert, don’t wear earphones and regularly check the screens or the guard walks down the whole of the train tapping everyone on the shoulder and delivering the message personally. That would take forever especially as they would end up being mobbed with questions.

It’s really unfortunate that this happens at times but with the screens and the PA it’s really up to us as passengers to be alert.

 

[Magdalia]

If you’re wearing headphones

From watching my fellow passengers I'd say that wearing headphones, and staring at little screens, is the main reason why people miss announcements and on screen information.

 

[speedy1]

From watching my fellow passengers I'd say that wearing headphones, and staring at little screens, is the main reason why people miss announcements and on screen information.

The ultra excessive regular announcements is the major reason I wear noise-cancelling headphones. Who started it?

 

[Magdalia]

The ultra excessive regular announcements is the major reason I wear noise-cancelling headphones. Who started it?

If you are wearing noise cancelling headphones, then you need to be aware that you will miss any announcement, and therefore need to look at the screens.

Bear in mind that there are also passengers with visual impairments, the regular announcements give them the information they need but may find difficulty getting from the screens.

 

[BeijingDave]

The ultra excessive regular announcements is the major reason I wear noise-cancelling headphones. Who started it?

Same

 

[MattRat]

It can be a real issue for disabled passengers if they unexpectedly end up at a different station than planned, with no assistance in place.

Especially a wheelchair user. Can't exactly get off the train with no assistance. And if they lack communication with passengers, they may also lack communication with Passenger Assistance. "Wheelchair user lost on rail network" would be quite the embarrassing news story for the railways

 

[mike57]

Same

For those of us with hearing impairment excessive spam announcements (i.e. nothing to do with this specific journey) leads to hearing fatigue. Noise cancelling ear buds help. There really needs to be pressure to bin these announcements. They are a source of frustation and annoyance to all passengers, and are particularly problematic to those of us with hearing impairment where they actually make matters worse. They are the main reason I now use noise cancelling device on long journeys. i.e. Rise in excessive announcements, so I work out how to avoid it causing me harm, solution noise cancelling.

 

[zwk500]

If you are wearing noise cancelling headphones, then you need to be aware that you will miss any announcement, and therefore need to look at the screens.

However, it's also possible to use the screens in a better way to grab passenger's attention for the absolutely vital stuff like non-stop orders instead of just telling them the status of the london underground or which toilets aren't working. Especially on modern stock with full-colour displays.
Something like a flashing screen with high-contrast colours saying 'Urgent Announcement' for a couple of seconds before displaying them 'due to late running, this train will no longer be stopping at <station 2> and <station 3> today. Passengers for these stations are advised to change at <station 1>.'

Thameslink may well already do this, I've luckily not been on a train that has the stopping pattern amended after I board for a long time.

 

[bramling]

However, it's also possible to use the screens in a better way to grab passenger's attention for the absolutely vital stuff like non-stop orders instead of just telling them the status of the london underground or which toilets aren't working. Especially on modern stock with full-colour displays.
Thameslink may well already do this, I've luckily not been on a train that has the stopping pattern amended after I board for a long time.

I’ve never seen anything come up on the screens on either a 387 or 700. The calling patterns can be modified, but all I’ve ever seen that do is change the normal messages. I’ve never seen anything to specifically draw attention to the alteration.

It doesn’t help that on the 387s the calling point announcements are played so many times that most people will just tune out to them.

I also once experienced an incident on GTR where the train was diverted via Hertford. In this instance IIRC it was late finish of overnight engineering work rather than last running. I could already see from OTT and the station screens what was going to happen, but needless to say the train left Stevenage, then came to a stand at a green signal. Followed by a semi-audible PA from the driver stating the train was now non-stop to Alexandra Palace. Being early morning it didn’t inconvenience too many people, but pretty rough for someone doing say Hitchin to Welwyn and ending up at Alexandra Palace.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear of instances where trains have left Stevenage or Peterborough and only after departing have passengers been told that the train will be running non-stop.

 

[TUC]

Of course it's important that such information is in an accessible format for people with hearing impairments, but at least they will usually be able to find their way independently across the station they unexpectedly find themselves at. Passengers with visual or mobility impairments need more information as to whether the station that is now their arrival point has staff who have been contacted to expect passengers arriving who need assistance and, in the case of mobility impairments, whether the station has step-free access.

The simple solution is to have pre-recorded PA messages of the type "Due to [xyz reason], this train will skip some planned station stops [or: the next planned station stop]." Nothing speculative or particularly ground-breaking with that; I've heard a similar style of default announcement (several times, now) in a bus I take frequently, either due to it being on an alternate course due to planned road works and closures or even from unplanned diversions such as for ex. police/firefighter activity blocking off a street.

Of course, this is also the kind of thing which should definitively also be displayed on visual displays if they're available.

Pre- recorded announcements are of no use to disabled passengers. It tells them nothing about accessibility or staff assistance at their unplanned ststion.