"Train operator only" ticket at a station not served by that train operator

[perstreperous]

I was sold a seven-day season ticket from Herne Hill to Leatherhead as "London Terminals to Leatherhead" and marked "Valid on Southern services only".

No Southern services serve Herne Hill.

Is "Valid on Southern services only" implicitly "Valid on Govia services only"?

(There is a more obvious problem with changing for Epsom to Leatherhead although, fortunately, the Southern services are generally only a few minutes after the SWR ones).

 

[superalbs]

I was sold a seven-day season ticket from Herne Hill to Leatherhead as "London Terminals to Leatherhead" and marked "Valid on Southern services only".

No Southern services serve Herne Hill.

Is "Valid on Southern services only" implicitly "Valid on Govia services only"?

(There is a more obvious problem with changing for Epsom to Leatherhead although, fortunately, the Southern services are generally only a few minutes after the SWR ones).

Yes.

 

[perstreperous]

Yes.

Thank you!

I suspected that, but confirmation is good.

(Although I wonder what proportion of travellers would not have known that Thameslink and Southern are owned by the same ToC and contorted themselves unnecessarily ...).

 

[yorkie]

(Although I wonder what proportion of travellers would not have known that Thameslink and Southern are owned by the same ToC and contorted themselves unnecessarily ...).

Indeed; that's one of the reasons why GTR are in trouble over this:

Collective competition claim against Govia Thameslink Railway

This press release hit the newswires yesterday: COLLECTIVE COMPETITION CLAIM AGAINST GOVIA THAMESLINK RAILWAY FOR OVERCHARGING RAIL PASSENGERS ON BRIGHTON MAINLINE SINCE OCTOBER 2015 London 6 July 2021 – An application to commence an opt-out collective action (“Claim”) was launched in the...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I was sold a seven-day season ticket from Herne Hill to Leatherhead as "London Terminals to Leatherhead" and marked "Valid on Southern services only".

Why wouldn't this have been issued as from Herne Hill to Leatherhead, route "Not via London", which I think is £11.70 cheaper, or does that route restriction make the journey impractical?

 

[CyrusWuff]

I was sold a seven-day season ticket from Herne Hill to Leatherhead as "London Terminals to Leatherhead" and marked "Valid on Southern services only".

On face value you appear to have been overcharged by about £12, unless you wanted the flexibility of travelling via London.

A Weekly Season between Herne Hill and Leatherhead route not via London is £63.90, whereas the Southern only ticket from London Terminals (effectively just Victoria if sticking to direct trains between Leatherhead and London) is £75.60.

 

[perstreperous]

Depending on circumstances I sometimes go Balham-Leatherhead (direct) as Herne Hill-Leatherhead can require three trains (Herne Hill-Sutton, Sutton-Epsom, Epsom-Leatherhead) because of pandemic-related cuts (some Victoria-Dorking or Victoria-Horsham trains were altered to stop short at Epsom).

 

[jawr256]

Herne Hill - Leatherhead via Balham is traceable on map HR without doubling back (https://vaildata.uk/routeing?orp=HNH&drp=LHD&map=HR) and without going into London so the Herne Hill-Leatherhead ticket should still be technically valid for Balham-Leatherhead

 

[perstreperous]

Thanks to previous posts on this forum, I actually checked the routing beforehand (and, it seems, drew the wrong conclusion). Never mind travellers knowing that Thameslink and Southern are "the same" (financially), how many would have known to check that?

I think HNH must be a difficult case:

• "London" versus "not via London"
• "Only on a defined ToC's trains" versus "no such constraint" (and the "defined ToC" doesn't have any trains calling at the station!)
• Non-obvious routing

 

[Haywain]

I was sold a seven-day season ticket from Herne Hill to Leatherhead as "London Terminals to Leatherhead" and marked "Valid on Southern services only".

Was any explanation given for selling a ticket from London Terminals, or did you request a ticket giving you travel to London Terminals? And where was the ticket sold?

 

[perstreperous]

Was any explanation given for selling a ticket from London Terminals, or did you request a ticket giving you travel to London Terminals? And where was the ticket sold?

At HNH ticket office. I said I might travel via BAL a couple of times in the week so the display changed from £63 to £75 (as per the post above).

 

[Haywain]

At HNH ticket office. I said I might travel via BAL a couple of times in the week so the display changed from £63 to £75 (as per the post above).

I’d advise going back and insisting they change it to the ticket you requested.

 

[perstreperous]

I’d advise going back and insisting they change it to the ticket you requested.

Will have a go tonight, assuming that I actually go back to HNH (things appear to be improving after a disastrous start today).

Indeed, it does appear as though the £63 should have remained at £63 (although the whole affair is arcane in the extreme, real cash is involved).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I was sold a seven-day season ticket from Herne Hill to Leatherhead as "London Terminals to Leatherhead" and marked "Valid on Southern services only".

No Southern services serve Herne Hill.

Just to clarify, what additional journey route options does the above-mentioned London Terminals to Leatherhead ticket provide the OP with (if any) that the cheaper Herne Hill to Leatherhead, route "Not via London" doesn't? From Leatherhead you can obviously get direct trains to either London Waterloo or London Victoria, but once you've got to there, how do you validly then proceed onwards to Herne Hill using a London Terminals ticket?

 

[Haywain]

once you've got to there, how do you validly then proceed onwards to Herne Hill using a London Terminals ticket?

You don't, because Southern don't serve Herne Hill (leaving aside the GTR stuff).

 

[perstreperous]

Rather surprisingly to me, there was no argument. I now have the £63 ticket which, after some sucking of the teeth, was confirmed as also supporting LHD-BAL. Thank you to everyone for your help in navigating this arcana.

(I live between HNH and BAL, somewhat closer to HNH. The two possible routes are LHD-SUO-HNH and LHD-BAL then the Tube to Stockwell and Brixton, for which I would tap in and out separately. 95% of the time it is the first, but the connection at SUO is tight at 4 minutes although surprisingly reliable. LHD-VXH then Tube would be possible but SWR's performance is atrocious and non-air-conditioned trains are no fun at present).