Train Manning Levels on UK Services

[Bugsy1957]

Hello all. This is my first post on this forum and I couldn't find a specific area where I felt this question fitted better so here goes!

I am cuious to know if safety regulations on railways dictate the minimum manning levels for a train service in England.

Obviously, for a train service to run a driver is a pretty useful requirement but is it a safety/legal requirement to have a guard / train manager?

Thanks in advance.

Dave

 

[HugePilchard]

There isn't a requirement, no. The only person who's really required is the driver - Driver Only Operation.

I shall now open this to the floor for the inevitable flurry of comments on the evils of DOO...

 

[Bugsy1957]

There isn't a requirement, no. The only person who's really required is the driver - Driver Only Operation.

I shall now open this to the floor for the inevitable flurry of comments on the evils of DOO...

Thanks for your reply. When I started this thread I did wonder if it would prompt some responses about the "evils of DOO" but that was not my intention when I posted.

My motivation was down to a ticket inspection issue I have raised with one of the train operators in the south. On the service I use regulary it is a 2 car service very early in the morning and I keep getting told it is "Probably down to the fact the Train Manager is performing other duties" which I could believe if there was a train manager on this service in the first place.

Personally speaking I have no safety related issues with DOO on local services. What really winds me up is that passengers on this service regard it as a freebie and regulary travel without purchasing a ticket.

 

[rail-britain]

As above, if it is designated DOO, then only the Driver will be required

If it is any other type of passenger seated train, then there must be at least one other member of staff with current and valid CPC

The final set is sleeper train, on top of the above requirements there must be at least one attendant per maximum three coaches (limited to 52 passengers)

 

[Bugsy1957]

As above, if it is designated DOO, then only the Driver will be required

I am guessing it must be designated DOO service because in the 12 months I have been using the service there has never been a visible train manager presence on it.

In addition if you sit in the seats behind the drivers cab you can hear the AWS signals but not the signals the TM would use when leaving a station etc (don't know what they are called)

Thanks again

 

[Pumbaa]

My motivation was down to a ticket inspection issue I have raised with one of the train operators in the south. On the service I use regulary it is a 2 car service very early in the morning and I keep getting told it is "Probably down to the fact the Train Manager is performing other duties" which I could believe if there was a train manager on this service in the first place.

The only 2 car service I can think of that's DOO in the south is SN 456 operated services, or SE 466. Although I'm not sure if SE run DOO with those ones. All other 2 car sets run with a Guard.

Which service do you use?

 

[Bugsy1957]

The only 2 car service I can think of that's DOO in the south is SN 456 operated services, or SE 466. Although I'm not sure if SE run DOO with those ones. All other 2 car sets run with a Guard.

Which service do you use?

I was being vague as I didn't want to mention the service until I understood the principle.

The First Great Western service I am referring to (using laymans terms!) leaves Newbury (NBY) at 540AM and terminates at Reading. I join the service as the 547 from Thatcham.

I'm a simple traveller so don't have access to the service codes

 

[rail-britain]

In addition if you sit in the seats behind the drivers cab you can hear the AWS signals but not the signals the TM would use when leaving a station etc (don't know what they are called)

These communication signals are normally referred to as "Driver Guard communications bells"
If there is only a driver, then there would be no such bells used (unless the driver is feeling a bit lonely)

 

[Bugsy1957]

These communication signals are normally referred to as "Driver Guard communications bells"
If there is only a driver, then there would be no such bells used (unless the driver is feeling a bit lonely)

Unless train drivers are in the habit of talking to themselves...seriously that was my logic too.

 

[CarterUSM]

Unless train drivers are in the habit of talking to themselves...seriously that was my logic too.

Well, a few do carry out risk triggered commentary!

 

[Captain Chaos]

I was being vague as I didn't want to mention the service until I understood the principle.

The First Great Western service I am referring to (using laymans terms!) leaves Newbury (NBY) at 540AM and terminates at Reading. I join the service as the 547 from Thatcham.

I'm a simple traveller so don't have access to the service codes

The entire line to Bedwyn is pretty much a free for all after midday. Was on the 12:48 to Taunton from Reading the other day. Group of four boards at Thatcham (HST service) and sit infront of me. TM boards the coach after finishing dispatch duties and as soon as they see him they start saying to each other that they have the money but they "I have got the money but I ain't going to be paying that **** the fare." Get to Newbury and they walk off.

The trouble with the line is that even when they do board a service with a guard or TE they just don't care. They have been so used to not paying that they now see it as a right not to. RPO's get so much stick going down there that they are not allowed down there unless the are working in pairs after 1PM. Another problem is that after Kintbury there is next to no phone signal and even if you do get given names and addresses you are unable to check them.

I have heard from various sources that ticket barriers are going to be installed at Newbury within the next 12 months. This is great and long overdue. Only problem is that they have been saying that for the last 5 years. Something needs to be done about the line. What I don't know. I know for a fact from working down there on lates myself with others that money is being lost down there hand over fist.

Oh and BTW, I frequent this service myself when I am on earlies. You can't miss me, I will probably be the only one in uniform sat within the train!