Train Lengths.....

[Evvy73]

.....as in the number of carriages - not the actual length.

Does anyone know if there is a place on the web I can find out how many carriages are supposed to be on a specific service?

As a Southern user I have been lead to believe that due to the introduction of the 313's on the Coastway lines, more stock should be available for the main line services - I'd just like to know where?

I am hopeful that the 17:23 LBG - EBN has finally been extended to 12 carriages, as this service has been packed to dangerous levels ever since it was introduced. I did contact Southern quite a while ago about this particular service and they acknowledged that it was running way over capacity, but could not confirm if it would be extended at the timetable change.

The 06:24 EBN - LBG service this morning had changed to a 10 carriage 442 (GatEx stock) from a 12 carriage 377, which was a pleasant surprise! Although it did seem much busier with more people than normal standing from HHE.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[swt_passenger]

.....as in the number of carriages - not the actual length.

Does anyone know if there is a place on the web I can find out how many carriages are supposed to be on a specific service?

As a Southern user I have been lead to believe that due to the introduction of the 313's on the Coastway lines, more stock should be available for the main line services - I'd just like to know where?

Thanks in advance for any help.

In SN's franchise small print, you'll find that the capacity increase is 'by Dec 2013'. As far as I can work out, the first significant increases are in Dec 2010 - so I'd just asssume that things will gradually change over the next few months.

I think there are only two 313s in service today, it all takes quite a time...

 

[jopsuk]

Some TOCs put the booked lengths on timetables- FCC do, at least for peak outer Great Northern services.

 

[Minstral25]

All I can say is lucky you!

This morning arrived at London Bridge on my normal 4 coach service from Tonbridge (I get on at Redhill), as usual standing only from Coulsdon South (sometimes Redhill).

Just to rub it in. as we left East Croydon we were alongside a 12 Coach Littlehampton to London Bridge Train, you could see several spare seats on the train including at least one whole set of four.

Southern have made it clear though, they are not improving the Redhill to London Bridge Service until Thameslink take over in 2016. Plus we have also had one of our fast train to Victoria cut this time, but they have extended the stopper before from 9 to 12 coaches.

 

[Evvy73]

@Minstral25 - OUCH! 4 carriages in the rush hour is not good!

Surprised that the Littlehampton - LBG train had seats though as they are usually standing from the other side of Hove (that is why I gave up on them years ago!), although it could be because the (now) 06:32 train from LIT used to leave around 06:41, so a few people might have missed it today.

 

[tbtc]

@Minstral25 - OUCH! 4 carriages in the rush hour is not good!

Four cars?

Eeeh, lad, oop north we dream of a four car train... (carries on in similar vein for half an hour) :roll:

 

[mumrar]

I am hopeful that the 17:23 LBG - EBN has finally been extended to 12 carriages, as this service has been packed to dangerous levels ever since it was introduced. I did contact Southern quite a while ago about this particular service

I know it bears no particular relevance to your question, but inspite of your description of the service being 'packed to dangerous levels' did you still board the train? Many times I've had the accusation made that I shouldn't force people to travel in heavily overcrowded trains, but when I offer them the platform, they never seem willing. Despite their own ascertions that it is dangerous, inhumane, or some similar superlative. I'm curious to know if you still travelled, despite your own assessment of the service, and if yes why you did so?

 

[WatcherZero]

To be fair looking at London overground services we often have a higher frequency than non-core lines down south, but yeah greater lengths would be nice.

On this vein is there any single railcar units left anywhere? I know the Cardiff shuttles a single railcar but are there still any on the welsh/scottish middle of nowhere routes or is it all 2 car nowadays?

 

[Pumbaa]

On this vein is there any single railcar units left anywhere? I know the Cardiff shuttles a single railcar but are there still any on the welsh/scottish middle of nowhere routes or is it all 2 car nowadays?

Would a 153 satisfy your curiosity?

 

[WatcherZero]

Hah, forgot about them because im so used to them being used as centre cars. So the the 153's still running rural services are all thats left?

 

[455driver]

The only time a 153 would be used as a centre car is in the middle of three 153s.

 

[142094]

The only time a 153 would be used as a centre car is in the middle of three 153s.

Or in the middle of two 155s. Seen this a few times (but not in service of course).

 

[WatcherZero]

Theirs one formation that leaves Man Pic about 5pm, thought it was a 158 and two 153's though I suppose it could be a 158 and a 150?

 

[Minstral25]

Four cars?

Eeeh, lad, oop north we dream of a four car train... (carries on in similar vein for half an hour) :roll:

I think your two car pacer is about equivalent to our 4 car unit. I still can't get my head round paying x billion for a HS2, when x hundred million would extend the length of huge numbers of trains and keep Bombadier in loads of work. Then you could have 3 cars and me 5 cars to crush into

Mumrar - why do we get on them - basically because we want to get to work or get home. When the services are half-hourly and the next train will be just as packed you have very little choice except join the Dole queue.

Envy73, Southern think its better to put long trains on coast services. You also get much faster services HHE can be 42 or 43 minutes in the rush hour for 40 odd miles yet Redhill gets 37 or 38 minutes for 20 odd. On teh Coast services I have used them to ECR and can see how packed they are to ECR, but they seem to empty out at ECR, is that right?

 

[Evvy73]

@Minstral25 Certainly a large number of trains from LBG do empty out a fair bit at ECR (especially the FCC's) - I think the problem with the Lewes and Eastbourne trains is that there are only two direct services and they are an hour apart (17:23 & 18:23). This means the vast majority of Coastway East users seem to want to get the 17:23.

Actually the 18:23 which is formed of 442's is never usually busy at all and there are normally plenty of seats available when it leaves LBG!

@mumrar I very rarely catch the 17:23 service, despite arriving at LBG easily by 17:20. I will stroll up the platform to see people standing down the middle of the seats and the doorwells rammed. Obviously, you still get people insisting that there is 'room for a little one' but personally I don't want to do that (plus I am not that little ) so I usually just wait around for the 17:42 LIT service and have a 40min walk back to my house when I get to Burgess Hill instead of the 5min walk I would have if I could get off at Wivelsfield.

This is my choice and I accept it - in fact the extra exercise probably does me good!

I am in no way implying that trains on the Brighton Main Line and the Southern Coastways are any busier than other commuter lines around the Country. I am sure the vast majority of Commuters could give their own tales of woe about their trains.

It just frustrates me when things that seem obvious to fix such as running a 12 car train instead of an 8 car train don't happen. I am sure I would still have to stand for a sizeable chunk of the journey, but at least I would be able to get on the train!

 

[jopsuk]

It may seem like an obvious "fix", but it would require most likely additional rolling stock. Which costs money.

 

[455driver]

Dont forget about platform lengths further down the line, they may only fit 8.

 

[Pumbaa]

Or that extra 4 coaches are used to make an off-peak service later on, while all the rest of the stock is still down south!

 

[Evvy73]

@455driver - Fortunately all the trains used on the Brighton Main Line can be 'walked through' so this isn't too much of a problem. The messages "Customers for xxxx stations should travel in the front 8 coaches" are quite common.
Between Gatwick and Brighton it is only Balcombe on the 'down side' that can't cope with a full 12 carriages anyway.

On a different note I did a bit of 'Googling' earlier today and found this link which seems to indicate that the 17:23 LBG - EBN train will now indeed be 12 carriages!
I am hoping to get away early tonight, so I should find out in 40 mins or so!

 

[ainsworth74]

I think your two car pacer is about equivalent to our 4 car unit.

I don't see how, a 142 15m long per car, whilst a 171 is 23m and a 377 is 20m. So your 4 car unit is at least 50m longer than a pacer!

 

[90019]

I don't see how, a 142 15m long per car, whilst a 171 is 23m and a 377 is 20m. So your 4 car unit is at least 50m longer than a pacer!

I think he means in relative terms of passengers and things.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think he means in relative terms of passengers and things.

I still don't see how you can equate a pacer (apart from the 144 3 car units) to any type of 4 car unit in capacity terms, which is what he is suggesting.

 

[MCR247]

I still don't see how you can equate a pacer (apart from the 144 3 car units) to any type of 4 car unit in capacity terms, which is what he is suggesting.

I think he meant if you were waiting for a busy peak train, and up north a 142 turned up, it would be like a 4 377 turning up in London

 

[ainsworth74]

I think he meant if you were waiting for a busy peak train, and up north a 142 turned up, it would be like a 4 377 turning up in London

Ahh, I suddenly feel very dense...