Train leaving early?

[DynamicSpirit]

Sorry, still not converted to this idea of turning up at the last minute. I do not live far away from Scarborough station but if the pedestrian lights are not in my favour, I would end up missing the train. If I travelled further to the station by car, then there would be more traffic lights to worry about. Admittedly, with the way Scarborough trains were running, it was very tempting to turn up at the last minute in York station.

You might not personally do, but I do, and I'm pretty sure lots of other people do. My evidence? When I used to commute in London, watching the way that platforms would suddenly fill up about a minute or two before a train was due - obviously in this case, regular commuters who know the timetable because they travel every day. And also, at the end of the day in the office, seeing how people (including myself) would stop work and leave the office at a time calculated to coincide almost to the minute with when their train was due.

In my case, if I'm catching a train from my local station... I know very accurately how long it takes me to walk to the station, and I'm quite capable of speeding up if I know I'm a bit behind. And obviously, being in London, the trains tend to be frequent enough that it's not a huge disaster if I miss one. But because of the uncertainty where trains may or may not leave up to 30-40 seconds - occasionally more - prior to the advertised time, I have to factor that into my decision of when to leave the house. That means every train journey I make takes slightly longer than it really should do door-to-door.

Also, very importantly: Now I know that trains may leave early, and so the penalty for me is just a slightly longer journey. When I first started commuting, I didn't know that. I simply trusted the timetable, the way almost any normal member of the public would. And I got caught out missing trains a few times where I was clearly on the platform in time - if the train had left at its advertised time. That's simply wrong and means that the public timetables are misleading. Missing your train because it left the station slightly earlier than advertised is the kind of thing that is definitely going to send the occasional traveller back to their car!

If I'm going a longer distance. In my case, that typically means something like London-Preston/Lancaster on Virgin - then of course I won't cut it so fine. In fact, if I have an advance ticket, I'll usually make sure I aim to arrive at Euston at least 40-50 minutes before my train. But that's more to do with the risk of encountering some delay on my hour-long journey to get to Euston.

The other time where trains closing the doors before the advertised time is important is where you didn't necessarily plan to have almost no time at the station, but something delays you and you end up arriving at the station with minutes to spare. Or even you didn't have a particular train in mind, but it turns out that you arrive a minute or so before a train is due to leave. In that case, if the public timetable accurately reflected the time that the doors close, then you'd have much more certainty about whether or not it's worth running to the platform to get that train.

 

[najaB]

In fact, if I have an advance ticket, I'll usually make sure I aim to arrive at Euston at least 40-50 minutes before my train. But that's more to do with the risk of encountering some delay on my hour-long journey to get to Euston.

40 to 50 minutes is probably a bit much if your journey is only an hour to get to Euston - that's a +66% safety margin! Typically I aim for about 15 minutes for a long journey, 5 to 10 for a shorter one.

 

[Hadders]

I’ve got my regular commute down to a fine art. There are 2 fast trains from Stevenage at the time I travel:

07:17 to Horsham via St Pancras
07:20 to Kings Cross

I can get either train - they both arrive at St Pancras/Kings Cross at 07:44 and I work a short walk away. Naturally I get the 07:20 as it’s a 365 with a better ambience and more chance of a seat.

I aim to arrive on the platform after the 07:17 has departed but before the 07:20 leaves. If I arrive on the platform before the 07:17 arrives I feel as though i’ve failed!

Incidentally I have a 10 minute drive from home to where I park my car followed by a 10 minute walk. I’ve never missed the 07:20 yet.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

40 to 50 minutes is probably a bit much if your journey is only an hour to get to Euston - that's a +66% safety margin! Typically I aim for about 15 minutes for a long journey, 5 to 10 for a shorter one.

Yeah, I agree that is a generous margin. Being delayed by that long is pretty rare, but not unknown. To some extent how long I leave depends on my ticket type. If I have an off-peak ticket I may leave a bit less time. But on an advance ticket... Also, if I have my bicycle with me... there are only two cycle spaces on most Virgin trains, so if I miss my booked train, there's no guarantee that I'd be able to book my cycle on the next one.

 

[_toommm_]

The Sheffield trains from Kirk Sandall and beyond which IIRC there's 3 an hour have to go from 3B there is no other platform where they can be accommodated, and if 3A is occupied by a London train, 3B can't be used as the London train fouls the starting signal on 3B and blocks the points used to access the crossovers to Sheffield.

I never realised that Doncaster was so inflexible. A similar thing goes off at York where Scarborough trains can only go from platforms 2, 4 and 5.

 

[PeterC]

40 to 50 minutes is probably a bit much if your journey is only an hour to get to Euston - that's a +66% safety margin! Typically I aim for about 15 minutes for a long journey, 5 to 10 for a shorter one.

With a 2tph connecting service into London I would get the train before the last possible one if I had a train specific ticket for the main service which would give a margin of that order.

I agree about comments above concering commuters. I have heard locals complaining that a retiming by just 2 minutes will mean that they miss their regular train and will have to pay additional childminding fees. Personally I have never worked anywhere that would tolerate that degree of clock watching.

 

[clagmonster]

The Sheffield trains from Kirk Sandall and beyond which IIRC there's 3 an hour have to go from 3B there is no other platform where they can be accommodated, and if 3A is occupied by a London train, 3B can't be used as the London train fouls the starting signal on 3B and blocks the points used to access the crossovers to Sheffield.

Such trains can and do use platforms 4 and 8 at Doncaster, despite the majority being booked 3B.

 

[_toommm_]

Such trains can and do use platforms 4 and 8 at Doncaster, despite the majority being booked 3B.

Can they go from Kirk Sandall to P4/8 without crossing over to the wrong line first? I thought they could only go to 3 from the correct line, which I've drawn on below:

 

[clagmonster]

There is a crossover just before the start of your blue line. This is a signalled move and does happen, though less common than 3B. You also get the odd train from Thorne terminating in one of the Leeds bays rather than 0. Platform 7 is probably slightly more common than 6 for this.

 

[_toommm_]

There is a crossover just before the start of your blue line. This is a signalled move and does happen, though less common than 3B. You also get the odd train from Thorne terminating in one of the Leeds bays rather than 0. Platform 7 is probably slightly more common than 6 for this.

So they actually use that in service and wrong line for a short while? Interesting!

Last time I came from Hull we were waiting half an hour at the start of my blue line when we couldn't get access to 3B, and I've never been on a train that went from Kirk to 5 or 8.

 

[Muzz]

I've missed trains from Drayton Park to Finsbury Park, that have arrived at Finsbury before they're supposed to have left Drayton

 

[BluePenguin]

I cannot believe this argument is raging onwards. What is wrong with idea of getting to the station in enough time or choosing a suitably longer connection time? If you get home or wherever, one hour earlier it is a bonus. Ideally, trains would be scheduled for better connection times so this is where I would criticise TOCs or even the rail industry in general

Obviously, if a train is despatched earlier than the acceptable threshold of 15 seconds say, then someone needs to be taken to task. Misfortune often plays a factor but there is that rare minority of passengers who turn up just in time habitually.

Because people value their time and so try plan their journey to the quickest possible times the systems allow, even if this carrys a lot of risk. The LAST thing anyone wants to do wait up to an hour for the next train when the previous one is easily within their reach if they make it quick and run. I agree, 15 seconds is nowhere near enough time and the chances do too but they if they want to take the chance then let them lol.

Getting to the station earlier is very sensible although this is not always possible. Connections at Stafford, Crewe Dover Priory, Ramsgate, Ashford, Birmingham and the Manchester stations could all be a lot better.

Passengers don't think or care about dispatch times or other people, the end goal to reach their destination is all that matters to them. If they arrive late, there will always be rage. If they arrive early you might be lucky enough to see a smile...before the compaints begin about how the journey should be that quick anyway and they had to run and didn't need to...etc