"Train journey from Hell"

[Howardh]

Apologies if this has been referred to elsewhere, can't find anything though and surprised if it hasn't already been mentioned on here... (If there is a post please move!)

Passengers trapped for HOURS and 'urinate on floor' in train journey from hell

Furious travellers banged on windows also a newborn baby on the train crying

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

1. I'm surprised there's no short-term battery back-up for the lights/doors etc

2. If the toilet's blocked, or there's no toilet, what are pax supposed to do when they need to go? Asking as one with postrate issues myself.

Rail passengers were stuck on a 'nightmare' train for hours after a power loss left it stranded and plunged into darkness late on Saturday evening. Travellers on the service who were left trapped were left disgusted after fellow passengers "urinated all over the floor and sink" when the toilet overflowed, it is claimed.

The chaos was sparked by an 'overhead power supply' issue. The Northern service, which was travelling from Liverpool to Wilmslow via Manchester Piccadilly at 9.30pm on Saturday night, May 7, descended into chaos at around 10.15pm when the train suddenly stopped and appeared to suffer a power cut, with 'all the electricity' going off', according to one frustrated traveller.

He claims passengers were left with no information as 'no one announced what was going on for the duration of the stop', and told the Manchester Evening Newsthey were left stranded on the train in the dark for two hours and 30 minutes.

He claims that during the time the passengers were trapped, the toilet train had flooded. "Women could no longer use it, men were p***ing all over the floor and sink, the toilet door shut on people in the toilet trapping them for sometime," said the man, who wishes to remain anonymous.

 

[AlterEgo]

If this was in London people would simply have broken out of the train.

 

[northwichcat]

Looks like it was this train service: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G33854/2022-05-07/detailed

2. If the toilet's blocked, or there's no toilet, what are pax supposed to do when they need to go? Asking as one with postrate issues myself.

Perhaps why Northern shouldn't have just one toilet in four carriage trains.

 

[geoffk]

The article doesn't say where this happened but according to RTT it was at or near Astley crossing, a remote spot on Chat Moss.

 

[northwichcat]

The article doesn't say where this happened

Probably because they used passenger accounts to compile the report and they didn't know themselves.

 

[Howardh]

Looks like it was this train service: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G33854/2022-05-07/detailed



Perhaps why Northern shouldn't have just one toilet in four carriage trains.

Would the "rescue train" have been on RTT?

 

[mike57]

near Astley crossing, so a remote spot on Chat Moss.

Yes, for a place that is only about 10 miles from Manchester city centre its very remote. I used to cycle over the crossing sometimes when I used to stay over near Warrington, access would be difficult by road as the road is single track and narrow, and to the south of the crossing is unmade.

Anyone who wants to get a feel for the area can view it on Google maps and drop the Streetview man on the crossing: https://www.google.com/maps/place/53°28'14.7"N+2°26'53.8"W

Still no excuse to leave people for that length of time

 

[185]

At least three in service passenger trains 2229 2326 and 2329 seem to have trundled past the failed train and could have done a rescue.

This is a direct fault of a clueless control frightened to make a decision or ring another train firm (TfW) whose train was passing. No surprise there are so many instances of passenger to track self evacuation... anything over two hours should not fall under trespass law to encourage people in control to get a grip.

Edit... Rescue 1Z99 train was 0108 off Astley

 

[Howardh]

The article doesn't say where this happened but according to RTT it was at or near Astley crossing, a remote spot on Chat Moss.

Very remote, one of the worst possible places. No chance of disembarking the pax to walk along the rail to a road for a replacement bus/taxis even if it were light. Perhaps there is a use for the old pacers after all, have them on emergency stand-by to collect pax from stranded electrics!

What's really concerning is the guard explaining "there was no response from the other end"? I find that very hard to believe, with mobile phones, a train simply not arriving at the next station, or the signal worker (even if automated?) not alerting the TOC that something's wrong? And surely if there are trains behind approaching, it's a busy line and takes trains from the north as well as Liverpool so that might not be the "last" train?

 

[Efini92]

Very remote, one of the worst possible places. No chance of disembarking the pax to walk along the rail to a road for a replacement bus/taxis even if it were light. Perhaps there is a use for the old pacers after all, have them on emergency stand-by to collect pax from stranded electrics!

What's really concerning is the guard explaining "there was no response from the other end"? I find that very hard to believe, with mobile phones, a train simply not arriving at the next station, or the signal worker (even if automated?) not alerting the TOC that something's wrong? And surely if there are trains behind approaching, it's a busy line and takes trains from the north as well as Liverpool so that might not be the "last" train?

You can spends hours on hold trying to get through to Northern’s control. It’s no surprise the guard didn’t have any updates.

 

[Howardh]

You can spends hours on hold trying to get through to Northern’s control. It’s no surprise the guard didn’t have any updates.

Well that is clearly appalling. They should get through in an instant; heve visions now of the driver tweeting the twitter account - except it shuts down in the evening! But seriously that won't do.

 

[skyhigh]

What's really concerning is the guard explaining "there was no response from the other end"? I find that very hard to believe, with mobile phones, a train simply not arriving at the next station, or the signal worker (even if automated?) not alerting the TOC that something's wrong?

Of course control would know pretty much as soon as something like this went wrong. In my experience if there's nothing major going on if we were to have an extended dwell at a station for no apparent reason the guard will get a phone call from control trying to find out why we're not moving. I suspect "there was no response from the other end" means that control were not answering the phone - probably because they were snowed under with calls to and from different people trying to find out what's going on and form a plan of attack.

1. I'm surprised there's no short-term battery back-up for the lights/doors etc

There is, but how long it lasts depends on how recently they were renewed. I would be fairly surprised if the train didn't have emergency lighting on at least for the duration it was stopped.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 May 2022 ==

Well that is clearly appalling. They should get through in an instant; heve visions now of the driver tweeting the twitter account - except it shuts down in the evening! But seriously that won't do.

In quiet times you will get through almost immediately. But when disruption strikes it can be big - there may be 10+ train crews trying to phone up for info, station teams, rail replacement, Network Rail, management staff on the ground etc - you'd need a whole call centre to deal with the volume. But then you end up with more issues - you need to speak to someone who knows what's happening or can make decisions, just speaking to someone who is reading information off a screen or having lots of people trying to make decisions at once will only complicate things.

 

[Stigy]

Surprised no one self-evacuated if it’s true there was no staff interaction for at least an hour?

 

[Ken H]

You can spends hours on hold trying to get through to Northern’s control. It’s no surprise the guard didn’t have any updates.

Is there no way to send some sort of text message or email. Or even ring 999 and ask the police to contact them?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Surprised no one self-evacuated if it’s true there was no staff interaction for at least an hour?

Being stuck on a train is frustrating, but I'm not sure it calls for a "dirty protest"...

 

[Howardh]

Of course control would know pretty much as soon as something like this went wrong. In my experience if there's nothing major going on if we were to have an extended dwell at a station for no apparent reason the guard will get a phone call from control trying to find out why we're not moving. I suspect "there was no response from the other end" means that control were not answering the phone - probably because they were snowed under with calls to and from different people trying to find out what's going on and form a plan of attack.

In quiet times you will get through almost immediately. But when disruption strikes it can be big - there may be 10+ train crews trying to phone up for info, station teams, rail replacement, Network Rail, management staff on the ground etc - you'd need a whole call centre to deal with the volume. But then you end up with more issues - you need to speak to someone who knows what's happening or can make decisions, just speaking to someone who is reading information off a screen or having lots of people trying to make decisions at once will only complicate things.

Disruption? This is ONE train, were there other trains stranded, or in stations waiting to depart and couldn't? All trying to contact control? If so, couldn't control simply have an open line to prioritise the stricken unit from the minute they were stranded?

 

[Stigy]

Being stuck on a train is frustrating, but I'm not sure it calls for a "dirty protest"...

To be fair it sounds like a dirty protest wasn’t far from the truth.

 

[Horizon22]

Very remote, one of the worst possible places. No chance of disembarking the pax to walk along the rail to a road for a replacement bus/taxis even if it were light. Perhaps there is a use for the old pacers after all, have them on emergency stand-by to collect pax from stranded electrics!

What's really concerning is the guard explaining "there was no response from the other end"? I find that very hard to believe, with mobile phones, a train simply not arriving at the next station, or the signal worker (even if automated?) not alerting the TOC that something's wrong? And surely if there are trains behind approaching, it's a busy line and takes trains from the north as well as Liverpool so that might not be the "last" train?

I am sure that a competent control would have been in touch with the guard - after about 30 minutes, this supposed to trigger the "stranded trains" procedure by which point a senior member of control will liaise with the guard (and driver if possible) to ascertain the number of passengers, whether any are vulnerable, the state of the train (i.e what is working) and general mood on-board. The guard may well have tried to get through themselves, but its not unknown for all staff to struggle to get through to control (at any TOC) during a crisis; there's only so many phone lines available and so many people to answer them. But as mentioned, it's more likely Control would have reached out to the guard There would have been some contact over that period of time, either driver with signaller via GSMR as the absoloute minimum. After an hour it may not have known whether the resuce plan was A, B or C, but I'm 99% sure something would have been discussed even if its "we'll update you in 20 minutes".

Resourcing and organising the rescue would have indeed taken longer, especially into a Saturday night / Sunday morning - this probably knocked onto replacement transport for taxis too.

 

[Efini92]

Is there no way to send some sort of text message or email. Or even ring 999 and ask the police to contact them?

I think the police would just be in the same queue.

 

[skyhigh]

Disruption? This is ONE train, were there other trains stranded, or in stations waiting to depart and couldn't? All trying to contact control?

For a start look at trains scheduled to pass the area after 2A07 on Real Time Trains - lots of delays and cancellations. These would require communication from control, not to mention contact with Network Rail, other staff etc. One stuck train has a lot of knock on impacts.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Newton-le-Willows between 2200 and 0200 on 07/05/2022

Train information at Newton-le-Willows between 2200 and 0200 on 07/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Howardh]

For a start look at trains scheduled to pass the area after 2A07 on Real Time Trains - lots of delays and cancellations. These would require communication from control, not to mention contact with Network Rail, other staff etc. One stuck train has a lot of knock on impacts.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Newton-le-Willows between 2200 and 0200 on 07/05/2022

Train information at Newton-le-Willows between 2200 and 0200 on 07/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

OK, but the stranded train should have an open line and not be "waiting in a queue"? As it happens I don't believe they couldn't get through to control for that length of time...just doesn't add up. Even if they couldn't - control must have been able to contact them? Think there's a porkie/misreporting there somewhere!

 

[Horizon22]

OK, but the stranded train should have an open line and not be "waiting in a queue"? As it happens I don't believe they couldn't get through to control for that length of time...just doesn't add up. Even if they couldn't - control must have been able to contact them? Think there's a porkie there somewhere!

What do you mean by "open line"? No doubt the driver and signaller were already in regular contact, and the driver almost certainly with maintenance/fleet control as well trying to rectify the problem.

As for the guard getting through, by far the easiest way to do this, would be the reverse, with Control directly contacting the guard after X minutes so they know who to priotise. If this wasn't done, it is indeed a failing. There wouldn't be any easy way in a crisis to priortise one mobile number (the guard's) on phone systems whilst controllers are trying to deal with a) the immediately impacted train and b) the surrounding impact.

 

[Magdalia]

Looks like it was this train service: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G33854/2022-05-07/detailed

Perhaps why Northern shouldn't have just one toilet in four carriage trains.

RTT does not show the train formation for 2A07 2130 Liverpool-Wilmslow, but, following the platform turnovers at Liverpool Lime Street, 2A07 appears to be 323234 off 2F11 1917 from Crewe.

Realtime Trains | 2F11 1917 Crewe to Liverpool Lime Street | 07/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 2F11 1917 departure from Crewe to Liverpool Lime Street on 07/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

At least three in service passenger trains 2229 2326 and 2329 seem to have trundled past the failed train and could have done a rescue.

The first of these was 1D47 2212 Manchester Picc-Chester. RTT shows this formed by 175104, and passing Astley less than 20 minutes after 2A07 came to a stand. Clearly totally unsuitable for a rescue.

Realtime Trains | 1D47 2212 Manchester Piccadilly to Chester | 07/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 1D47 2212 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Chester on 07/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The second of these was 2F15 2142 Wilmslow-Liverpool formed of 323239. Yes, it passed Astley at 2326, but the last opportunity to empty out the train, a prerequisite for a rescue, was at Patricroft at 2244, less than 35 minutes after 2A07 came to a stand.

Realtime Trains | 2F15 2142 Wilmslow to Liverpool Lime Street | 07/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 2F15 2142 departure from Wilmslow to Liverpool Lime Street on 07/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Furthermore, the third of these was late running 1C50 2210 Manchester Airport to Barrow, stuck behind 2F15 and passing Patricroft at 2248. This was a 6 car train formed 195114 and 195117, also clearly unsuitable for a rescue.

Realtime Trains | 1C50 2210 Manchester Airport to Barrow-in-Furness | 07/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 1C50 2210 departure from Manchester Airport to Barrow-in-Furness on 07/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

So the only opportunity to use any of these for a rescue would have been to empty out 2F15 at Patricroft at 2244, stranding those passengers, and adding significant delay to the Barrow train.

Sometimes there are no good options.

Surprised no one self-evacuated if it’s true there was no staff interaction for at least an hour?

Self evacuation, in the dark, where you possibly can't see any lights, is also not a good option.

 

[Howardh]

What do you mean by "open line"? No doubt the driver and signaller were already in regular contact, and the driver almost certainly with maintenance/fleet control as well trying to rectify the problem.

That's exactly what I mean and why I suggest the quote "they couldn't get through" is fiction.

 

[Horizon22]

That's exactly what I mean and why I suggest the quote "they couldn't get through" is fiction.

I would tend to agree - it might be the information wasn't given wasn't the most helpful to the guard "we're not sure yet, we'll get back to you in X minutes" and X minutes had expired, but something would have been discussed. As with all these stories, the passengers are obviously in a distressed, unfortunate and uncomfortable situation so sometimes the facts as recalled aren't 100% accurate.

 

[ComUtoR]

That's exactly what I mean and why I suggest the quote "they couldn't get through" is fiction.

I certainly believe it. I've been stuck at a signal for 40 minutes with no contact. I've also been stuck trying to call our control who just don't respond and it just rings solid. You would be surprised what actually happens on the ground. Not forgetting if the train battery dies, so could the GSMR which is potentially you ronly means of communication.

 

[Statto]

Surprised no one self-evacuated if it’s true there was no staff interaction for at least an hour?

As been said, if you know the area, & even though it's 10 miles from Manchester City Centre, the area around Astley signal box is very rural, & a 2 mile walk, down single track country roads, with high hedgerows either side, to the nearest main road, which is the East Lancs Road, i wouldn't fancy that in the middle of the day, never mind 11pm in the pitch black.

 

[LowLevel]

They were intending on using 2F15 to either rescue or evacuate the trapped train but unfortunately disorder on board it meant it went on to it's destination instead.

 

[Taunton]

There is, but how long it lasts depends on how recently they were renewed. I would be fairly surprised if the train didn't have emergency lighting on at least for the duration it was stopped.


In quiet times you will get through almost immediately. But when disruption strikes it can be big - there may be 10+ train crews trying to phone up for info, station teams, rail replacement, Network Rail, management staff on the ground etc - you'd need a whole call centre to deal with the volume.

This is surely where USA-style radio comms scores, everyone hears what is going on, control can ask for radio silence while they contact the failure, etc.

Regarding battery life, it really is appalling how this consistently does not come up to specification.

 

[Kite159]

They were intending on using 2F15 to either rescue or evacuate the trapped train but unfortunately disorder on board it meant it went on to it's destination instead.

Saturday night travelers returning home after maybe a bit too much to drink.

Imagine the chaos had they tried to detrain at Patricroft.