Train hits buffers at Preston (01/04)

[neilb62]

I would be amazed if this incident is due to either the driver not knowing that (s)he was entering a bay platform or that they approached too quickly. More than likely it was either misjudging the correct braking point (distraction being most probable) or insufficient braking action.

Does anyone now how regularly platform 3B is used?

Several times a day by the Ormskirk services.

 

[najaB]

Several times a day by the Ormskirk services.

That makes railhead contamination slightly less likely.

 

[Bertie the bus]

So was the driver not expecting to be going into a Bay Platform which was unusual for this line of route. Reminds me of the Plymouth collision last year.

Not unusual at all for the York services to use the bays when the Blackpool line is closed for engineering works. The comment about them usually using P1 is incorrect. They use P1 when they are running to Blackpool. Terminating at Preston shouldn't have come as a surprise to him as it was a York - Preston service.

 

[najaB]

Terminating at Preston shouldn't have come as a surprise to him as it was a York - Preston service.

In any case, the theater indicator would have made it clear what platform the train was routed to.

 

[455driver]

Is the bay fitted with a TPWS overspeed sensor to the 'standard' arrangement (i.e. set speed of 12mph or so)...? Hopefully, if so, that'll put some of the speculation around the speed entering the platform to bed!

As far as I know all passenger bays are fitted with TPWS with a standing instruction that the train is to go over them at less than 10mph.

if, as reported the train was doing 30mph :roll: then I would have (not of ) expected the injuries and damage to be much more severe than has been reported!

 

[Ianno87]

So was the driver not expecting to be going into a Bay Platform which was unusual for this line of route. Reminds me of the Plymouth collision last year.

Compared to the through platforms, the bay platforms are much, much shorter.

 

[Tomnick]

As far as I know all passenger bays are fitted with TPWS with a standing instruction that the train is to go over them at less than 10mph.

That's certainly my understanding. Whatever the exact set speed is (what I've been told varies between 10.1mph and 12.5mph), it's a lot less than 30mph!

if, as reported the train was doing 30mph :roll: then I would have (not of ) expected the injuries and damage to be much more severe than has been reported!

Exactly!

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

These bay platforms barely fit 3 coaches on, 4 possibly, so there isn't at all much stopping room. I would be surprised if the driver didn't have to slow for red / yellow on approach to Preston, crossing over to 3C from the slows usually involves being put behind a through train. If anyone could help me out with the name that'd be great, but the bay's have rails with some sort of metal mesh on them that criss crosses them. They make a great rumble as a train departs over them, this could affect the braking of the train?

Also, 156's on the York to Blackpool (Preston)? That's a bit odd, although, they are a 158 short as I have seen today, one of the 2 refurbished 158's was up in Blackpool North depot with the other one working on the Preston - York. Maybe the driver was not used to 156's and bay platforms? 2 very different aspects to a normal working, different stock and different platforms.

 

[najaB]

If anyone could help me out with the name that'd be great, but the bay's have rails with some sort of metal mesh on them that criss crosses them. They make a great rumble as a train departs over them, this could affect the braking of the train?

The corrugations are added to ensure that the wheels make contact with the rail so that the track circuit shows occupied so I doubt they reduce friction.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Also, 156's on the York to Blackpool (Preston)? That's a bit odd, although, they are a 158 short as I have seen today, one of the 2 refurbished 158's was up in Blackpool North depot with the other one working on the Preston - York. Maybe the driver was not used to 156's and bay platforms? 2 very different aspects to a normal working, different stock and different platforms.

It was a 158. 158758 in fact, so I'm not sure where you've got this 156 thing from.

 

[LAX54]

Its been stated that it was nearer 5mph

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

It was a 158. 158758 in fact, so I'm not sure where you've got this 156 thing from.

Right oh, to be honest, I'm not really sure where I've read it myself. 158 should stand up to it pretty well though

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

Its been stated that it was nearer 5mph

If it had been 30mph the train would be in the platform 3 waiting room by the time it'd stopped. Can't be that much of a Chester incident, train surely won't have lifted from the tracks after a 5mph impact.

 

[Crossover]

These bay platforms barely fit 3 coaches on, 4 possibly, so there isn't at all much stopping room. I would be surprised if the driver didn't have to slow for red / yellow on approach to Preston, crossing over to 3C from the slows usually involves being put behind a through train. If anyone could help me out with the name that'd be great, but the bay's have rails with some sort of metal mesh on them that criss crosses them. They make a great rumble as a train departs over them, this could affect the braking of the train?

Also, 156's on the York to Blackpool (Preston)? That's a bit odd, although, they are a 158 short as I have seen today, one of the 2 refurbished 158's was up in Blackpool North depot with the other one working on the Preston - York. Maybe the driver was not used to 156's and bay platforms? 2 very different aspects to a normal working, different stock and different platforms.

'Wiggly wire'

As stated, it's for activations of the track circuits in locations where contamination on the rails could create an insulating barrier preventing train detection working

 

[Geeves]

3 car 158 into a bay which can barely fit a 3 car with out going right up to the buffers along with with a trainee driver and Driver instructor. As said he definitely wasn't going at 30 but there was obviously an error on the approach, but hey its not as easy as it looks! Hey ho these things happen. I am sure the trainee an the DI are absolutely gutted and after the investigation is over if that isn't bad enough those two will be enjoying being the messroom banter for the next year!

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

Yeah all things considered, not too difficult to mis judge the buffer stop on 3C, probably very rare the driver will have gone into that platform before and it was just a matter of time until it happened. Ah well, this is the last weekend of the Blackpool closures for now so should be back to normal Monday onwards. 3C's completely out of the way at Preston station, there won't be any disruption.

 

[455driver]

3 car 158 into a bay which can barely fit a 3 car with out going right up to the buffers

According to the North East Sectional Appendix (NW4001 002) Platform 3C is 75m long so plenty of room for a 69m long train and no need to go right up to the buffers!

 

[neilb62]

According to the North East Sectional Appendix (NW4001 002) Platform 3C is 75m long so plenty of room for a 69m long train and no need to go right up to the buffers!

You have to go in tight to get inside the starting signal, the SA shows the actual length, not the available length, both bays are a very tight squeeze with a 185 so I guess a 3 car 158 won't be much different?

 

[itsjamierawr]

You have to go in tight to get inside the starting signal, the SA shows the actual length, not the available length, both bays are a very tight squeeze with a 185 so I guess a 3 car 158 won't be much different?

Whenever I've seen 185s in there it's looked extremely tight, I imagine the driver had to pull up quite close to make sure the rear doors fit on the platform with a 158 there.

Like others have mentioned this bay is used regularly both during the week and during disruption.

 

[Stampy]

When I travelled from Rugby to Blackpool a few weeks ago (changing onto a bus at Preston due to the engineering/electrification works) - I did see a 185 from York brake rather sharpish (from about 10 mph) into the platform stopping just short of the buffers...

 

[neilb62]

Luckily I've never been in there with anything bigger than a 57!

 

[Bertie the bus]

This photograph gives a reasonable indication as to how much space there is for a 3-car 158 in the bay. The photographer is stood slightly in front of the signal.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidsnwtransport/5960253419/

 

[GW43125]

Yeah all things considered, not too difficult to mis judge the buffer stop on 3C, probably very rare the driver will have gone into that platform before and it was just a matter of time until it happened. Ah well, this is the last weekend of the Blackpool closures for now so should be back to normal Monday onwards. 3C's completely out of the way at Preston station, there won't be any disruption.

I think the reason for overruns is something like this: sh*t happens. All you need is to get distracted at the wrong moment. I hope there aren't severe repercussions for the driver.

 

[GB]

All you need is to get distracted at the wrong moment. I hope there aren't severe repercussions for the driver.

I won't give details of what actually happened but agree entirely with the above.

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

Here's a 3 car 158 but in 4C (identical to 3C) I'd say it was 1.5m from the buffers and this much clearance to the platform end, pic by me from back at start of March. It is close..

EDIT: no clue why the attachments put itself upside down, sorry about that.

 

[fflint]

Would that be the famous 158s used in Australia

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

Is the train removed from the platform now?

 

[455driver]

This photograph gives a reasonable indication as to how much space there is for a 3-car 158 in the bay. The photographer is stood slightly in front of the signal.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidsnwtransport/5960253419/

So plenty of room then.

 

[QueensCurve]

He'll have had a 'B3' in the twin theatre box at the proceeding signal. In common with many LM stations at Preston you get a platform number in the box for the through lines or preceded by a B for a bay....

cf the "B2" on the theatre light seen on the approach to Carlisle from the Maryport and Carlisle.

 

[QueensCurve]

The corrugations are added to ensure that the wheels make contact with the rail so that the track circuit shows occupied so I doubt they reduce friction.

Many thanks for that.

I had long wondered what they were for and whether in fact they might provide an additional warning to the driver that he was approaching a buffer stop. cf the "stick shaker" in passenger aircraft.