Train Head codes, can anyone help?

[PaxmanValenta]

Hi
I’m trying to understand UK train head codes but there is some confusion. For example:

1M72 was once used as a Headcode for a Leeds to Carlisle service but M stands for Midlands and this train does not go anywhere near the Midlands so why is M used?

Also I saw on RailCam station diagram (http://www.railcam.uk/site/supporters/xoops_diagraminfo.php) a 1P44 train at Newcastle but on looking it up it’s Dover Priory to London Victoria, and I’m not sure what P stands for.

Thanks for any help.

 

[TheEdge]

The region codes only apply to inter-regional trains and even then the rules are not as strict as they used to be. So TOCs can just use whatever headcode they want as long as it doesn't cause a duplication in the same area at the same time.

Which leads on to your second question. P doesn't mean anything, different TOCs use it differently and the same headcode can appear several times all over the country. There were probably at least four 1P44s today, your two, a Greater Anglia one and possibly a Thameslink one, maybe more. But as they never meet the duplication doesn't matter.

 

[hexagon789]

Hi
I’m trying to understand UK train head codes but there is some confusion. For example:

1M72 was once used as a Headcode for a Leeds to Carlisle service but M stands for Midlands and this train does not go anywhere near the Midlands so why is M used?

Also I saw on RailCam station diagram (http://www.railcam.uk/site/supporters/xoops_diagraminfo.php) a 1P44 train at Newcastle but on looking it up it’s Dover Priory to London Victoria, and I’m not sure what P stands for.

Thanks for any help.

Generally speaking for Inter-regional trains the letter stands for which former BR region the train is bound for. M stands for London Midland Region which Carlisle is in. Similarly S is Scottish region and E the Eastern region, but O is Southern, V is Western, L is Anglia. This is not the entire picture though.

Certainly within regions the letters often means something else. On the Midland Region A is London-bound, G Birmingham bound on the Western A and L are both London-bound.

Trains in different regions can often share reporting numbers indeed, some routes often repeat headcodes after a while. P on Inter-regional codes is Nottingham or Preston-bound I think but if it's an internal service I can't say, sorry. Hopefully someone else will know.

 

[Peter0124]

I've always wondered about Glasgow to lonLon trains being 1M/9M and not 1L and also the returns being 1S/9S and not 1G cause it only serves Glasgow not the rest of Scotland.

And I've also not understood why the 1400 Glasgow to London is 9M84 instead of 9M57 and the 1452 Edinburgh to London is 9M86 instead of 9M58?

 

[Mathew S]

I've always wondered about Glasgow to lonLon trains being 1M/9M and not 1L and also the returns being 1S/9S and not 1G cause it only serves Glasgow not the rest of Scotland.

And I've also not understood why the 1400 Glasgow to London is 9M84 instead of 9M57 and the 1452 Edinburgh to London is 9M86 instead of 9M58?

9xxx as opposed to 1xxx is, as I understand it, used on the west coast mainline services to denote running via Birmingham as opposed to the Trent Valley.

 

[swt_passenger]

9xxx as opposed to 1xxx is, as I understand it, used on the west coast mainline services to denote running via Birmingham as opposed to the Trent Valley.

I think the question in post 4 was more about the letters. Thing is at Edinburgh those WCML long distances trains are getting M for the London Midland & Scottish (LMS) region, not an L for the eventual destination city of London, just like the services to Kings Cross get E for Eastern Region, and not L for London. S for Scottish region for northbound from London whatever the origin and route is logically quite correct.

I assume the question about the third and fourth digits is just that they seem out of sequence. I expect they are extras, or off standard pattern, compared to the last major timetable rewrite.

 

[Peter0124]

I think the question in post 4 was more about the letters. Thing is at Edinburgh those WCML long distances trains are getting M for the London Midland & Scottish (LMS) region, not an L for the eventual destination city of London, just like the services to Kings Cross get E for Eastern Region, and not L for London. S for Scottish region for northbound from London whatever the origin and route is logically quite correct.

I assume the question about the third and fourth digits is just that they seem out of sequence. I expect they are extras, or off standard pattern, compared to the last major timetable rewrite.

It seems on weekends those headcodes change, 9M84 1400 Glasgow to ,Euston becomes 9M57 whilst 9M86 1452 Edinburgh to Euston becomes a strange 9M47?

 

[Mintona]

I wouldn’t try and understand them too much. In the past they were used far more meticulously than they are these days. These days they’re seemingly quite random, and as traincrew we don’t need to understand why, so I certainly wouldn’t recommend trying to ‘get’ them!

 

[PHILIPE]

I wouldn’t try and understand them too much. In the past they were used far more meticulously than they are these days. These days they’re seemingly quite random, and as traincrew we don’t need to understand why, so I certainly wouldn’t recommend trying to ‘get’ them!

You might find this thread useful. The topic does crop up from time to time and looking at these can be quite interesting:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/train-headcodes.144775

 

[driver9000]

I've always wondered about Glasgow to lonLon trains being 1M/9M and not 1L and also the returns being 1S/9S and not 1G cause it only serves Glasgow not the rest of Scotland.

The letter denotes the destination region for long distance trains not the city or town. London Euston is on the former London Midland region of British Rail and Glasgow Central is on the Scottish region. This prevents it conflicting with internal 1G or 1L trains it may come across enroute. It also helps signalling staff identify long distance trains.

 

[swt_passenger]

... P on Inter-regional codes is Nottingham or Preston-bound I think but if it's an internal service I can't say, sorry. Hopefully someone else will know.

There is no definition for “P” as an inter-regional code, as far as most online sources go. E,L,M,S,O,V seem the only 6 defined.

 

[swt_passenger]

As people have mentioned in earlier similar threads, if you look into this for long you’ll start finding as many anomalies as you have the time to search for.

Round here, Southampton area, GWR’s through trains to or from Brighton use “O” eastbound and “ V” westbound exactly as predicted, but the Cardiff - Portsmouths use “F” in both directions.

Then you’ll get people suggesting that the 6 inter-regional letters are reserved on class 1 services, followed straight away by examples of 1E and 1S services running around the London suburbs.

 

[hexagon789]

There is no definition for “P” as an inter-regional code, as far as most online sources go. E,L,M,S,O,V seem the only 6 defined.

Yeah, I realise that now, I was looking at the wrong thing. P did mean Preston on the LMR though.

 

[hexagon789]

There is no definition for “P” as an inter-regional code, as far as most online sources go. E,L,M,S,O,V seem the only 6 defined.

Oh and N used to mean North Eastern Region

 

[IanXC]

Oh and N used to mean North Eastern Region

But doesn't have any Class 1 inter regional services from outside its now Eastern Region anyway.

Coming back to the OPs point, in the north of England, a 1Pxx is reserved for services to or from Manchester Airport.

 

[satisnek]

I still can't find an answer to the question I posted on a previous thread (but not the one linked to above), which is: what determines a Class 1 service and a Class 2 service? Distance travelled? Type of rolling stock? Station stops per mile? Total number of intermediate station stops? Average speed? I would imagine that this issue is nowadays much more blurred than it used to be.

 

[swt_passenger]

I still can't find an answer to the question I posted on a previous thread (but not the one linked to above), which is: what determines a Class 1 service and a Class 2 service? Distance travelled? Type of rolling stock? Station stops per mile? Total number of intermediate station stops? Average speed? I would imagine that this issue is nowadays much more blurred than it used to be.

No standard answer as you say, it depends where you are entirely. On any given route though if there are both classes in use class 1 should normally be relatively more important.

 

[Sunset route]

I still can't find an answer to the question I posted on a previous thread (but not the one linked to above), which is: what determines a Class 1 service and a Class 2 service? Distance travelled? Type of rolling stock? Station stops per mile? Total number of intermediate station stops? Average speed? I would imagine that this issue is nowadays much more blurred than it used to be.

There are all sorts of oddities on this one, London Victoria to Reigate = class 1 but Reigate to London Victoria = class 2, mainly because most of the alphabet is already used up and class and letter combinations were running out.

 

[Mathew S]

Coming back to the OPs point, in the north of England, a 1Pxx is reserved for services to or from Manchester Airport.

But is also used for VTWC services which terminate at Preston (not only North of England, I know, but they do arrive there).

 

[chrisncal54]

I've always wondered about Glasgow to lonLon trains being 1M/9M and not 1L and also the returns being 1S/9S and not 1G cause it only serves Glasgow not the rest of Scotland.

And I've also not understood why the 1400 Glasgow to London is 9M84 instead of 9M57 and the 1452 Edinburgh to London is 9M86 instead of 9M58?

I suspect that's because you are trying to apply your idea of structure to what is in fact a random system

 

[IanXC]

But is also used for VTWC services which terminate at Preston (not only North of England, I know, but they do arrive there).

Ah yes of course. "Reserved" was the wrong word looking back in any case!

 

[bb21]

I still can't find an answer to the question I posted on a previous thread (but not the one linked to above), which is: what determines a Class 1 service and a Class 2 service? Distance travelled? Type of rolling stock? Station stops per mile? Total number of intermediate station stops? Average speed? I would imagine that this issue is nowadays much more blurred than it used to be.

Anything can be designated a Class 1 or Class 2 as so wished these days. Intercity/Inter-regional services are still generally designated Class 1 in line with normal practice but other than that you can get a right mish-mash without any real pattern to it.

Wessex have 1D's as the stoppers out of Waterloo to Dorking via Epsom, while 2D's running further out to Guildford via Epsom. They are used to differentiate services for the signaller's benefit, but other than that, there isn't always a strict set of criteria.

 

[swt_passenger]

Anything can be designated a Class 1 or Class 2 as so wished these days. Intercity/Inter-regional services are still generally designated Class 1 in line with normal practice but other than that you can get a right mish-mash without any real pattern to it.

Wessex have 1D's as the stoppers out of Waterloo to Dorking via Epsom, while 2D's running further out to Guildford via Epsom. They are used to differentiate services for the signaller's benefit, but other than that, there isn't always a strict set of criteria.

Another typical oddity on Wessex is the Waterloo to Poole and Waterloo to Portsmouth via Eastleigh are effectively forming a half hourly semifast service as far as Eastleigh, the former is Class 2, and the latter Class 1. Is one really more important than the other on the common section of route?