Train guard threatened with gun on S&C

[yorkie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/7362231.stm

A train guard was threatened with a gun after refusing to let two men travel at a station in the Yorkshire Dales.

Two men had been ejected from the train at Settle station on Saturday night but returned with an airgun as the train arrived at Horton in Ribblesdale.
One of the men pointed the gun at the guard to scare him, a British Transport Police spokesman said.

"This was an extremely serious incident which left the guard and passengers extremely frightened," he said.

A woman and her two children who were on the platform dropped to the floor as they feared for their own safety, the spokesman said.
The train guard and driver were left "extremely shaken" but were not physically injured.

The guard had earlier intervened at Settle station when the men tried to prise open the train doors to get on board as it was about to leave the station.

He refused to let them travel and they became abusive towards him and pulled his tie off and threw it on the floor as they were ejected onto the platform, police said.

They are then believed to have followed the train route to Horton where they confronted the guard.

The man who brandished the weapon is described as white, in his late teens to early 20s, about 6ft 2ins, heavily built, with short, spiky hair and wearing a blue jacket.

The second man was white, in his late teens to early 20s, 5ft 9ins to 5ft 10ins, with slightly ginger hair. He was wearing a beige jacket and a black woolly hat with a badge on the front.

Sgt David Grant, of British Transport Police, said: "This weapon was clearly used in a threatening manner to scare the train guard who had previously ejected these two offenders.

"I am especially appealing for information as to how these two men travelled from Settle to Horton. Did somebody give them a lift or did they take a taxi? "This is a small rural community and I'm sure somebody knows exactly who the person with the weapon is."

 

[Bayum]

I read about this earlier this morning. Shocking isn't it what some people think they can get away with. But as the SGT says, it's a small community so someone has to know how they got between the two stations in that time.

 

[Metroland]

Amazing what some people will do to get 'mileage'

 

[P156KWJ]

hock: christ, nowhere's safe these days, not even the quiet backwaters of Yorkshire!

 

[adamp]

Typical pathetic scrotes.

 

[andylloyd]

Typical pathetic scrotes.

Totally agree with you there. The youth of today, shocking! hock:

Regards

Andy

 

[class 313]

Could of been worse, could of been real of course!

 

[P156KWJ]

Totally agree with you there. The youth of today, shocking! hock:

Regards

Andy

oh now you're getting stereotypical

 

[Up Carriage Liner]

What I can't understand is why they were trying to board the train when they clearly had a set of wheels instantly available to take them to the next station.

 

[Coxster]

What I can't understand is why they were trying to board the train when they clearly had a set of wheels instantly available to take them to the next station.

Maybe they live near/drove to Settle station wanting to catch the train to Carlisle or something after deciding they didn't want to drive to their destination, and this was the car they used to catch the train up?

 

[Donny Dave]

Could of been worse, could of been real of course!

Ok, what would you say if someone came upto you and threatened you with a gun?

Then what would you say if they walked off and said, "could be worse, it could have been a real gun"?

Moron.

 

[Beaker]

Ok, what would you say if someone came upto you and threatened you with a gun?

Then what would you say if they walked off and said, "could be worse, it could have been a real gun"?

Moron.

Well moron wouldnt be on top of lists to say to somebody holding a gun.

 

[class 313]

Ok, what would you say if someone came upto you and threatened you with a gun?

Then what would you say if they walked off and said, "could be worse, it could have been a real gun"?

Moron.

I would say that to the exact words if I was in that situation and then found it was just a BB gun. But to be honest, I'm guessing it was probably a £3 BB gun from a corner shop which is quit easy to tell apart from a real gun.

 

[Bayum]

And the point with them driving to the next station was obviously because they wanted revenge on the driver.

 

[RailwayBear]

I hope this lad get the backing of his management and persue legal proccedings against these people, i myself have been threatened whilst carrying out my duties on the railways but not as bad as this.

 

[Max]

I would say that to the exact words if I was in that situation and then found it was just a BB gun. But to be honest, I'm guessing it was probably a £3 BB gun from a corner shop which is quit easy to tell apart from a real gun.

But what if you were wrong, and you acted relaxed and it turned out to be a real gun? Personally, I'm not an expert on guns, so I probably wouldn't be able to tell whether it was real or not. Clearly this guard was the same. And frankly, if someone pointed a weapon at you, events would unfold so quickly that I doubt you would have time to closely observe what type of gun it was.

 

[Bayum]

And why bother taking the risk? As Max says, it might have been real, it might not. If it was me, I wouldn't stand around arguing that it was fake for the sake of it

 

[P156KWJ]

I would say that to the exact words if I was in that situation and then found it was just a BB gun. But to be honest, I'm guessing it was probably a £3 BB gun from a corner shop which is quit easy to tell apart from a real gun.

you'd be suprised how difficult it is to tell fake guns from real ones, I had a go in this question when doing Citizenship work on child soldiers, and was suprised how hard it was

 

[rob s]

Also, if the person with the gun claims it is real when it isn't they are in the eyes of the law carrying a genuine firearm.

 

[class 313]

But what if you were wrong, and you acted relaxed and it turned out to be a real gun? Personally, I'm not an expert on guns, so I probably wouldn't be able to tell whether it was real or not. Clearly this guard was the same. And frankly, if someone pointed a weapon at you, events would unfold so quickly that I doubt you would have time to closely observe what type of gun it was.

Obviously I would take into account that the gun COULD of been real thus wouldn't completely act relaxed. But there's always chances that could be taken.

Stay there in fear and let the person do what he needs to do then get back up when/if he goes.

Try and work out if its a real gun or not and then see what could be done next.

 

[yorkie]

I wonder if they demanded a lift from someone near the station by threatening them with the gun?

 

[bluenoxid]

Yeah I remember what happened when they were playing round with a BB gun around Harrogate a few years back

The CCTV clearly showed the armed police bouncing their heads off the kerb.

Until someone fires it, you dont know if it is real. Regardless it is still threatening behaviour.

 

[RJ]

Only an idiot would stand there and examine the gun to see if it was real or not.

 

[Beaker]

Not much else you can do is there ? Game of chess perchance ?

 

[RJ]

Not much else you can do is there ? Game of chess perchance ?

You've obviously never been held up with a weapon before.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Also, if the person with the gun claims it is real when it isn't they are in the eyes of the law carrying a genuine firearm.

You don't even have to claim its real. A person robbing a bank with a water pistol would be arrested for ARMED ROBBERY if it is the impression [of anyone present] that it is a real gun, and I have seen some real looking 'Water Pistols', my brother, for example, had a rather real looking shotgun water pistol, let down only by its plasticy shimmer.

 

[Nym]

Well, yeah, but most new designs of small arms are plastic based nowerdays anyways.

That aside, on these occations if the guard could have I'd have fully supported him knocking the fuppers out!

 

[danbob]

Just to clarify a few points to you all. The original altercation took place at Settle station at about 8.25 pm. Settle station is unmanned at this time and no CCTV is present. The guard kicked them off the train because they were drunk and fighting amongs't themselves. There were about 4 of them at this point. The train left Settle and proceeded to Ribblehead where it turns back to form the 9.00pm service to Skipton. At about 9.10pm upon arrival at Horton two of this group of losers appeared from behind a platform waiting room to point a weapon which was fitted with a sight at the guard. They had about 45 mins to summon a lift the 5 miles to Horton. He told me it was a very frightening incident and it was no BB gun, it was a rifle of some kind. The publicity has been amazing and Northern put out flyers at the recent three peaks fell race on the morning of April 26th. Later that day two youths walked into Settle police station and handed themselves in. Obviously they realised that with the descriptions and the fact it was a small community time was against them.

 

[danbob]

But what if you were wrong, and you acted relaxed and it turned out to be a real gun? Personally, I'm not an expert on guns, so I probably wouldn't be able to tell whether it was real or not. Clearly this guard was the same. And frankly, if someone pointed a weapon at you, events would unfold so quickly that I doubt you would have time to closely observe what type of gun it was.

Quite correct here. Anybody who works on the trains who have had incidents of threats or violence will tell you that things can unfold and get out of control quickly. This weapon was a rifle with a sight. You show me somebody who would challenge that, and I will show you a fool. Even if you knew it was an air rifle, if it had a sight it was clearly used to shoot at rabbits or the like. This was in the farming country of the dales. Any weapon that could kill a rabbit over a distance is more than capable of causing serious injury or death.

 

[RJ]

Looks like my post has gone missing - is it now against the rules to challenge bad advice :???: