Train fare

[hadz123]

I had bought a ticket in a rush and went through onto the train from the station. After I had arrived at London marleybone I had put my ticket into the barrier and it did not go through. I went up to one of the ticket officers and told them my ticket was not working. The ticket officer took me to another guy and said that I was committing fraud as I had bought a ticket to London Euston instead of London marleybone. From this he took my details and asked me questions. I answered all the questions he was asking me and complied. He then said I would get a letter in a couple of weeks. I have now received a letter 2 months later and they have asked me to send an email explaining what had happened and they will decide what to do. However do you think I should get a lawyer or do you think I should just email and I’ll just get a fine or something. As im quite confused. I’ll attach the letter. But would you say they’ll prosecute me or do yoy think they’ll just fine me. I had also bought a new ticket right after the train inspector let me go.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can you please post details of what you booked - an itinerary and tickets, ideally. Make sure you obscure any personal details, reference numbers and barcodes so you cannot be identified directly from what you post.

 

[hadz123]

Can you please post details of what you booked - an itinerary and tickets, ideally. Make sure you obscure any personal details, reference numbers and barcodes so you cannot be identified directly from what you post.

unfortunately I don’t have a picture of the previous tickets I bought. I got the tickets from a machine and when I had gotten to London marleybone they had taken the tickets away from me so I can no longer use them. However soon after I was questioned I had bought new tickets.

 

[The exile]

If travelling from High Wycombe - how on earth could you end up with a ticket valid to Euston but not Marylebone? Or had you broken your journey there on a ticket from somewhere like Birmingham?

 

[hadz123]

If travelling from High Wycombe - how on earth could you end up with a ticket valid to Euston but not Marylebone? Or had you broken your journey there on a ticket from somewhere like Birmingham?

No. That’s the thing I have no idea. When I got my ticket I was in a rush and there was a line behind me. So when I had gotten the ticket I didn’t realise I had the wrong one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2024 ==

If travelling from High Wycombe - how on earth could you end up with a ticket valid to Euston but not Marylebone? Or had you broken your journey there on a ticket from somewhere like Birmingham?

There was also a gentleman infront of me and I don’t think he knew what he was doing. Therefore he had made a mistake on the machine which led me to choose the wrong ticket

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@hadz123. Welcome to the forum. At which station did you buy your 'problem' ticket? How much did you pay for it? (This info should be on your payment card account). Would any railcard discount have been applied? Going to be a bit difficult to determine if you might possibly have had a valid ticket otherwise.

 

[AlterEgo]

Exactly what ticket did you buy, and how much did it cost? Did you use a railcard discount? I think something has got quite confused here, because none of what you’re telling us makes much sense at the moment.

 

[island]

Yes, we need to know exactly what ticket was purchased. A photo of it if at all possible.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yes, we need to know exactly what ticket was purchased. A photo of it if at all possible.

Reported as having been retained by RPI staff in post #3.

 

[Haywain]

If travelling from High Wycombe - how on earth could you end up with a ticket valid to Euston but not Marylebone?

There is another remarkably similar thread on the forum at the moment where the poster apparently bought a ticket at High Wycombe, but it was from Wembley Central to London, which would be to Euston. In that case two people were travelling - perhaps this is the second traveller?

 

[AlterEgo]

There is another remarkably similar thread on the forum at the moment where the poster apparently bought a ticket at High Wycombe, but it was from Wembley Central to London, which would be to Euston. In that case two people were travelling - perhaps this is the second traveller?

Would be helpful if the OP could confirm this! The two cases are identical.

 

[iskh]

Would be helpful if the OP could confirm this! The two cases are identical.

Yes this is my friend

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2024 ==

Would be helpful if the OP could confirm this! The two cases are identical.

Yes this is my frind

 

[jacksonbang]

Seems a bit extreme that travelling to Marylebone is "committing fraud". Is this an issue of buying a ticket valid from another station closer to London and then choosing the "wrong" Wembley station?

 

[Haywain]

Seems a bit extreme that travelling to Marylebone is "committing fraud".

What the OP did was committing an offence. Getting fussy about what it should or should not have been called in a conversational sense is not going to provide any help.

 

[skyhigh]

Seems a bit extreme that travelling to Marylebone is "committing fraud". Is this an issue of buying a ticket valid from another station closer to London and then choosing the "wrong" Wembley station?

Assuming it's the same as the other thread from the friend, yes.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I'll give the same advice to you that I gave to your friend earlier today. This is to write a short, concise reply to Chiltern mentioning the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you look through other cases in this section of the forum you will find some good examples you can use. Post up a copy of your draft reply in this thread and forum mmebers will proof read it for you.

Chiltern are entitled to prpsecute you in the Magistrates COurt if they want to but normally they will offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before.

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of the fare avoided at the full Anytime rate plus an admin fee, typically around £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered, payment in installments isn't allowed.

 

[iskh]

How long do chiltern railways take to respond?

 

[swt_passenger]

If travelling from High Wycombe - how on earth could you end up with a ticket valid to Euston but not Marylebone? Or had you broken your journey there on a ticket from somewhere like Birmingham?

It now seems as if the short fare origin was likely Wembley Central, but I‘m not sure if you’d expect a normal ticket gate to react to that, I’d have thought the logic would be to look only at the destination of London Terminals, and as we know that’s usually coded common to all terminals? Has it changed, or can a ticket gate be programmed to look at the origin as well?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

An Anytime Day Single (£6.70) from Wembley Central, is I believe, normally only issued to London Euston. Was that ever likely to work the barriers at London Marylebone?

As short-faring attempts go, this particular one seems to have been spectacularly inept.

 

[Haywain]

can a ticket gate be programmed to look at the origin as well?

Yes it can. It's how London Terminals stations can distinguish what is and isn't valid.

 

[swt_passenger]

An Anytime Day Single (£6.70) from Wembley Central, is I believe, normally only issued to London Euston. Was that ever likely to work the barriers at London Marylebone?

As short-faring attempts go, this particular one seems to have been spectacularly inept.

I didn’t know that but yes that would make sense. I’m more familiar with the situation into Waterloo, where the vast majority of origins get a wide choice of London Terminals.

 

[CyrusWuff]

An Anytime Day Single (£6.70) from Wembley Central, is I believe, normally only issued to London Euston. Was that ever likely to work the barriers at London Marylebone?

It's almost certainly the case that Chiltern have got the barriers at Marylebone set to only accept tickets to London Terminals and those explicitly to Marylebone.

Tickets explicitly to Euston would likely be rejected to try and prevent the use of tickets routed WMR/LNR Only on Chiltern services.

 

[Haywain]

It's almost certainly the case that Chiltern have got the barriers at Marylebone set to only accept tickets to London Terminals and those explicitly to Marylebone.

Tickets explicitly to Euston would likely be rejected to try and prevent the use of tickets routed WMR/LNR Only on Chiltern services.

The barriers can be set to accept or reject a range of stations and that will certainly be the case - London Terminals is obviously accepted subject to the other named station being acceptable. They will also be able to reject routes such as WMR/LNR only, Avanti Only and GWR only.

However, it has been established that the OP purchased a ticket from Wembley Central and further discussion about what the barriers can and cannot do is not helpful to the OP.

 

[The exile]

Seems a bit extreme that travelling to Marylebone is "committing fraud". Is this an issue of buying a ticket valid from another station closer to London and then choosing the "wrong" Wembley station?

Buying a ticket from Wembley to London when travelling from High Wycombe without any other ticket in order to save money is using deception for financial gain. That’s fraud. If they already held tickets from High Wycombe to Wembley Stadium and “just” bought tickets to complete the journey, but chose the wrong Wembley, then it would be much less justifiable a description.

 

[jacksonbang]

What the OP did was committing an offence. Getting fussy about what it should or should not have been called in a conversational sense is not going to provide any help.

What on Earth are you talking about? He specifically said that he was accused of travelling to Marylebone instead of Euston and that's "committing fraud". I don't appreciate this type of rudeness. I'm supposed to know there's another thread, that is the same person and that he bought a ticket from another station - which is what I was specifically asking. Immediately claiming it's an offence is also unhelpful.

 

[Haywain]

Immediately claiming it's an offence is also unhelpful.

It’s much more helpful than claiming it isn’t. And if you feel that my calling your comments unhelpful to the OP is rude, then I’m afraid you’ll have to stick with that view because my view of your comments is not going to change.

 

[The exile]

What on Earth are you talking about? He specifically said that he was accused of travelling to Marylebone instead of Euston and that's "committing fraud". I don't appreciate this type of rudeness. I'm supposed to know there's another thread, that is the same person and that he bought a ticket from another station - which is what I was specifically asking. Immediately claiming it's an offence is also unhelpful.

Well - the OP does state in this thread (17.30 on 11/09) that they were the second person travelling from High Wycombe to London - so having a ticket valid only from Wembley Central to Euston definitely constitutes fraud (as, of course, only having a ticket from Wembley Stadium to Marylebone would have done - although that might not have come to the authorities' attention!)

 

[Hadders]

Mention of fraud in this thread is unhelpful. The matter will be dealt with as a railway ticketing matter and if it were to proceed to court, which it probably won't if the people involved follow our advice and co-operate, it will be dealt with under the Railway Bylaws or Regulation or the Railways Act.

 

[iskh]

I have wrote up a final draft letter please read and let me know thanks
Dear Chiltern Railways,
Ref:
I write further to the Notice of Intended Prosecution dated X September 2024. It is alleged that on DATE, I made a journey from High Wycombe to London Marylebone and failed to show a valid rail ticket for the journey I had made. Please accept this as my letter of mitigation.

I am writing to express my sincere apologies for the recent incident involving my friend and me. On [date], I travelled from High Wycombe to London Marylebone without first buying the correct ticket. Upon arriving at London Marylebone,I approached a Rail Protection Officer where he requested for my details and I had no objection to providing my details.Once I was let through the Marylebone barriers I subsequently purchased the correct tickets for our previous travel, onward travel and our return journey.
I am currently studying with a view to become a XXXXX and a conviction against me would have a detrimental effect on my future prospects in employment. I would not want this to affect my career in any possible way.
Hence I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for my actions and for the position this matter has reached.
I deeply regret the confusion and inconvenience caused to Chiltern Railways. I have learnt a lot from this incident and this experience has highlighted the importance of ensuring that I buy the correct tickets in the future. I can ensure that this will not happen again and I apologise for any disruption caused to Chiltern Railways.
I am keen to resolve this matter without court action and would be very grateful if you would allow me to settle any outstanding fares or administrative costs associated with this incident. If this would be possible, then please let me know the amount required and I will arrange for prompt payment. Thank you for your understanding and assistance in resolving this issue.

Yours Faithfully,

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@iskh. Be inclined to competely delete the paragraph that says...

I am currently studying with a view to become a XXXXX and a conviction against me would have a detrimental effect on my future prospects in employment. I would not want this to affect my career in any possible way.
Hence I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for my actions and for the position this matter has reached.

It's not really necessary IMHO. The rest of the proposed final draft looks o.k.