Train fare evasion prosecution

[bgc123]

Hi,
I have a situation where I was travelling from X place to London Victoria via train and when I got to the station at X, I realised that the train was cancelled.
I sought advice from staff at the station and two of them let me know that I could take the train to London Waterloo instead and it’s okay and I wouldn’t need to pay for the train ticket.
When I got on the train, one of the staff went round to check tickets as they usually do and when I explained the situation to him he didn’t agree to me not paying for a new ticket and asked for my details to send me something

It was late at night and I was really tired so I didn’t question it or argue back and I gave him my information.

Three months later, I checked my mailbox and saw I received two letters from the railway company one from 3 months earlier fining me for fare evasion and obviously as I hadn’t seen the older letter I had’t paid it, so I received the second letter a month after stating that I hadn’t paid and increasing the fare.

The second letter also stated that failure to pay within the timeline given meant that they would prosecute me and I could get a criminal record. Because I knew that I had been given the Green light to get on the train to London Waterloo, I didn’t feel the need to respond to the letter and so I ignored it.

4 months later, I opened my mailbox again and saw two letters addressed to me. The first one from 3 months prior was from prosecution asking me to plead guilty/not guilty and pay a fine for solicitor fees as well as the fare charge. The second letter was a follow up from not responding. And the fare had gone up some more. The prosecution had taken place and I was asked to pay the fare. I have now paid it but I’m worried about what the letter said.

Do you think this is something to appeal ? I need serious advice because I’m really scared now especially because I know I didn’t do anything wrong per say

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

Would you be able to post the correspondence onto this thread please, so people can see the sequence of events? Make sure you cover up things like your name and address and reference numbers.

 

[Haywain]

I have a situation where I was travelling from X place to London Victoria via train and when I got to the station at X, I realised that the train was cancelled.
I sought advice from staff at the station and two of them let me know that I could take the train to London Waterloo instead and it’s okay and I wouldn’t need to pay for the train ticket.
When I got on the train, one of the staff went round to check tickets as they usually do and when I explained the situation to him he didn’t agree to me not paying for a new ticket and asked for my details to send me something

Did you already have a ticket from X to Victoria?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I’m an international student in my third year and I’m reapplying for my visa. Will I have to state this prosecution?

We can't help on this point: there are strict laws about who is allowed to give advice on immigration matters and we find it best to avoid breaking the rules by steering well clear of the issue. As a student, it might be worth seeing if your institution or students union can help, or point you in the direction of someone who can.

 

[bgc123]

Did you already have a ticket from X to Victoria?

Hi Haywain,
Yes I bought a ticket to Victoria. I have an email to show that. But I don’t have an email to show that it was cancelled because they didn’t send one

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2024 ==

We can't help on this point: there are strict laws about who is allowed to give advice on immigration matters and we find it best to avoid breaking the rules by steering well clear of the issue. As a student, it might be worth seeing if your institution or students union can help, or point you in the direction of someone who can.

Hi Fawkes cat,
Thanks for saying this!
Can you help on the other points? Can I appeal this? Is it worth it?

 

[simonw]

Hi,
I have a situation where I was travelling from X place to London Victoria via train and when I got to the station at X, I realised that the train was cancelled.
I sought advice from staff at the station and two of them let me know that I could take the train to London Waterloo instead and it’s okay and I wouldn’t need to pay for the train ticket.
When I got on the train, one of the staff went round to check tickets as they usually do and when I explained the situation to him he didn’t agree to me not paying for a new ticket and asked for my details to send me something

It was late at night and I was really tired so I didn’t question it or argue back and I gave him my information.

Three months later, I checked my mailbox and saw I received two letters from the railway company one from 3 months earlier fining me for fare evasion and obviously as I hadn’t seen the older letter I had’t paid it, so I received the second letter a month after stating that I hadn’t paid and increasing the fare.

The second letter also stated that failure to pay within the timeline given meant that they would prosecute me and I could get a criminal record. Because I knew that I had been given the Green light to get on the train to London Waterloo, I didn’t feel the need to respond to the letter and so I ignored it.

4 months later, I opened my mailbox again and saw two letters addressed to me. The first one from 3 months prior was from prosecution asking me to plead guilty/not guilty and pay a fine for solicitor fees as well as the fare charge. The second letter was a follow up from not responding. And the fare had gone up some more. The prosecution had taken place and I was asked to pay the fare. I have now paid it but I’m worried about what the letter said.

I’m an international student in my third year and I’m reapplying for my visa. Will I have to state this prosecution? Do you think this is something to appeal ? I need serious advice because I’m really scared now especially because I know I didn’t do anything wrong per say

ignoring letters is never a good idea.

Do you really mean you didn't check your post for 3 months and then again for a further 4 months? Why the long delays?


What kind of ticket did you have?

Did you have the actual ticket with you on the train, or just the email?

 

[Haywain]

Yes I bought a ticket to Victoria. I have an email to show that. But I don’t have an email to show that it was cancelled because they didn’t send one

Why would it be cancelled? And when would that have happened? You needed to have a ticket to cover your journey.

 

[WesternLancer]

ignoring letters is never a good idea.

Do you really mean you didn't check your post for 3 months and then again for a further 4 months? Why the long delays?

I read it that it was e-mails being used to communicate with the OP - lots of unopened e-mails in my in box....hopefully none of them that vital but...
Mind you on looking again at the 1st post I see it says 'mailbox' so could be hard copy post - in which case as you say unwise to have ignored it.

I would indeed advise the OP to seek help from their University Overseas Student team and or student union who may / will be able to help with issues to do with study visa etc (they will want next years tuition fees after all!)

 

[AlterEgo]

Where were you travelling from? At what time? And date? We can check the train running logs to help support your version of the events.

 

[30907]

Where were you travelling from? At what time? And date? We can check the train running logs to help support your version of the events.

I think we may assume somewhere like Portsmouth or possibly Southampton rather than Dorking

 

[bgc123]

Where were you travelling from? At what time? And date? We can check the train running logs to help support your version of the events.

Hi AlterEgo,
it was in December of ‘23. In the evening. It was an advanced single ticket. I’m new here so I’m not sure how this works fully so I can give you possible locations instead Southampton Brighton and Portsmouth

 

[30907]

Hi AlterEgo,
it was in December of ‘23. In the evening. It was an advanced single ticket. I’m new here so I’m not sure how this works fully so I can give you possible locations instead Southampton Brighton and Portsmouth

Thanks - it wasn't Brighton as trains don't go to Waterloo from there, nor are there Advance fares .
From the other two the route to Waterloo is faster and therefore more expensive, so you need to rely in your dealings with South Western on the fact that you were advised (by their staff) to take their train.
I am assuming that you had the ticket with you, not just the mail (see post #6).

It would help if you could upload the documents you have received.

 

[bgc123]

Thanks - it wasn't Brighton as trains don't go to Waterloo from there, nor are there Advance fares .
From the other two the route to Waterloo is faster and therefore more expensive, so you need to rely in your dealings with South Western on the fact that you were advised (by their staff) to take their train.
I am assuming that you had the ticket with you, not just the mail (see post #6).

It would help if you could upload the documents you have received.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2024 ==

I have attached a screenshot of the email. Which says I can view the tickets (I bought these on Trainline)
I have concealed information about the location, hence the blanks

 

[AlterEgo]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2024 ==

I have attached a screenshot of the email. Which says I can view the tickets (I bought these on Trainline)
I have concealed information about the location, hence the blanks

That's not very helpful, as we can't check train running logs unless you tell us the journey origin and destination, date, and time.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

That's not very helpful, as we can't check train running logs unless you tell us the journey origin and destination, date, and time.

Indeed. So, somewhere on the South Coast that has direct services to both London Victoria and to London Waterloo.

Possibly, the Portsmouth stations, Fratton, Hilsea and/or Havant?

Or maybe Southampton Central prior to the timetable change?

Not easy to determine the whole picture here so as to better assist the OP. It's a bit like trying to piece together a jigsaw with many of the pieces missing!

 

[bgc123]

Indeed. So, somewhere on the South Coast that has direct services to both London Victoria and to London Waterloo.

Possibly, the Portsmouth stations, Fratton, Hilsea and/or Havant?

Or maybe Southampton Central prior to the timetable change?

Not easy to determine the whole picture here so as to better assist the OP. It's a bit like trying to piece together a jigsaw with many of the pieces missing!

Indeed. So, somewhere on the South Coast that has direct services to both London Victoria and to London Waterloo.

Possibly, the Portsmouth stations, Fratton, Hilsea and/or Havant?

Or maybe Southampton Central prior to the timetable change?

Not easy to determine the whole picture here so as to better assist the OP. It's a bit like trying to piece together a jigsaw with many of the pieces missing!

Hi both,
Do you have a historical train logging website that dates as far as December last year ? Would you mind sharing if you can ? I tried looking at some that I found on a previous thread here but they don’t have that information

 

[AlterEgo]

There’s https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/ but if you don’t tell us the journey we can’t help you formulate a defence. I’m not really sure what the secrecy is about to be honest, we are trying to help.

 

[skyhigh]

Just tell us the station names and date. There's literally no point trying to keep them secret.

 

[bgc123]

There’s https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/ but if you don’t tell us the journey we can’t help you formulate a defence. I’m not really sure what the secrecy is about to be honest, we are trying to help.

Hi please see attached.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Where were you travelling from? At what time? And date? We can check the train running logs to help support your version of the events.

Intended journey seems to have been from Portsmouth & Southsea to London Victoria at or around 3.15 p.m. on Friday 22nd December 2023, presumably using a route "AP Southern Only" advance single. Not exactly 'late at night' or approaching the end of service, unless I'm possibly missing something. Notwithstanding, is train running (train cancellation) data still available for then?

 

[MrJeeves]

Intended journey seems to have been from Portsmouth & Southsea to London Victoria at or around 3.15 p.m. on Friday 22nd December 2023, presumably using a route "AP Southern Only" advance single. Not exactly 'late at night' or approaching the end of service, unless I'm possibly missing something. Notwithstanding, is train running (train cancellation) data still available for then?

There was a decent amount of disruption that day, with many services cancelled.

OP's train started short at Chichester: http://timetablehistory.com/times.aspx?uid=P15519&date=20231222

OP "should" have taken the 1533 towards Brighton and changed for a train to London, probably around Barnham.

Obviously moot if they were presumably given permission to take a Waterloo train!

 

[bgc123]

Intende journey seems to have been from Portsmouth & Southsea to London Victoria at or around 3.15 p.m. on Friday 22nd December 2023, presumably using a route "AP Southern Only" advance single. Not exactly 'late at night' or approaching the end of service, unless I'm possibly missing something. Notwithstanding, is train running (train cancellation) data still available for then?

There was a decent amount of disruption that day, with many services cancelled.

OP's train started short at Chichester: http://timetablehistory.com/times.aspx?uid=P15519&date=20231222

OP "should" have taken the 1533 towards Brighton and changed for a train to London, probably around Barnham.

Obviously moot if they were presumably given permission to take a Waterloo train!

Hey there,

I appreciate your input – upon some reflection, I realize that my fatigue was likely due to my activities the day before and not the time of day.

Thanks for sharing the link and the screenshot, they were both really helpful. The screenshot also confirms that I boarded the train heading to Waterloo later on. Although I did speak to staff, I didn't show them my ticket, nor did they inquire about its type, so unfortunately, I wasn't informed about any alternative routes.

I really value your help and support. Thanks once again, and have a great week ahead!

 

[WesternLancer]

Hey there,

I appreciate your input – upon some reflection, I realize that my fatigue was likely due to my activities the day before and not the time of day.

Thanks for sharing the link and the screenshot, they were both really helpful. The screenshot also confirms that I boarded the train heading to Waterloo later on. Although I did speak to staff, I didn't show them my ticket, nor did they inquire about its type, so unfortunately, I wasn't informed about any alternative routes.

I really value your help and support. Thanks once again, and have a great week ahead!

What is your plan of action now?

I would be suggesting you urgently try to contact them to apologise what happened and offer to pay any fares owed in the hope they will not prosecute you in court and you can avoid a criminal record.

Do you still have time to do this - you will need to do it in writing.

If you can I think this is what you should do urgently / as soon as possible.