Train Etiquette

[GodAtum]

Can I not return to my seat after purchasing a hot Ginsters from a FGW buffet?

Or seat in my seat when there is Pullman dining?

 

[9K43]

Pet hate, after working the Ellesmere Port Gas Train which signed on at 02:45hrs we were back pass from Warrington.
To see a Airport Train with passenger taking up 2 seat with baggage and the other 2 seats for one person.
When you ask them to shift the baggage on move up you get looks that would kill, just for asking to sit down where the cases are piled high.
This part of the journey was from Piccadily to Dewsbury.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, having watched this thread simmer for a bit, a couple of things.

When I put my metro right next to me for later and somebody swipes it (someone even tried this with a bought newspaper the otherday).

People who pee around the toilet rather than in it (this applies not just on trains).

When I'm distracted from my reading material to get my ticket out to show the Guard, and just before he gets to me, someone has to buy a complicated ticket which involves the Guard walking down the train to get his credit card thingy, and by the time thats been done, the trains stopped and he has to go and open the doors, and meanwhile I'm waiting to get back to whatever I've been doing.

Also, If you saw a complete stranger on the train reading a newspaper with a cup of tea in one hand and headphones on, would you make a beeline for that person out of every person in the carriage and try to strike up a conversation? Common sense would suggest that he is otherwise engaged.

On the point of waiting for people to leave the train first, if it's extremely busy on the platform and someone's dithering around before getting off all the while people are flooding into the carriage from the other end and I'm in danger of not getting a seat, I will sometimes try and ease my way on I'm afraid. Pee or get off the pot.

 

[Oswyntail]

you are missing the point children should give up their seats for adults

Never saw the logic of this. Most adults are stronger and more capable of standing for longer than children - of course, it depends on what you mean by "children"

adults give up theirs for mothers with babes in arms,pregnant .

Babes in arms I can cope with - very sensible. Pregnancy - how do you assess that? Stick thin ladies not showing their bump may need a seat more than a robust blossoming peasant, but only the latter might show. "Excuse me, are you pregnant?" is going to go down a bomb on the tube.

elderly

Elderly - how do you assess that, where does it start? In my young day, people were "Little Old Ladies" at 60! White hair? Muttering to oneself?

or infirm

Looking at me with my knackered knees you would think I was in blooming health. But standing for more than a few minutes can be agony

and men for women it was always the rule and eveyone queued -all around much nicer.

Well chivalry is all very well, but there is a whiff of equality in the air, and women are designed more for endurance than men.
What I believe it boils down to is that, if you feel you need a seat, you should ask - and anyone asked should give up their seat. Now that approach of mutual trust and understanding is much nicer all around.

 

[deltic1989]

Can I not return to my seat after purchasing a hot Ginsters from a FGW buffet?

If you bought a hot ginsters from an FGW buffet you probably wouldnt make it back to your seat.

 

[jon0844]

The centre and rear doors are only for exiting? That's a new one on me, I have to say!

You misread, or I wrote it badly.. I mean people now board through the middle doors on a normal bus, possibly because of being able to board on the bendy buses. The difference is that they're not having to pay (yes, some may have a season) as there's no Oyster reader on a normal single/double decker.

It's annoying when people do it and the driver often ignores it, even if people trying to board at the front can't now get on at all as the space from those who alighted is taken up. Sometimes the driver demands they get off, but I've NEVER ONCE seen anyone actually do it - and the driver ALWAYS gives up and goes on.

It's pretty sad when passengers will do this, but it's becoming more common. Maybe there's no link to the bendy buses at all and it's just a sign that more people don't give a s*** about anyone else.

 

[kbd]

People crowding the platform when your trying to get off is my pet hate

This gets up my nose too - and it seems to be worst on the underground.

I used to try to squeeze through the crowd being as polite as possible.

However after doing that for several years I have given up and just alight the train with a firm shoulder and with momentum on my side (as the carriage is usually slightly higher than the platform).

The days of "civil society" seem to have been lost, and from my perspective it seems that the only way people will learn to stay clear of the centre of the doors is to learn the hard way....

It's pretty sad when passengers will do this, but it's becoming more common. Maybe there's no link to the bendy buses at all and it's just a sign that more people don't give a s*** about anyone else.

Hi John, regarding your point about people getting on the "exit doors" of the buses - I think mostly people don't give a s*** anymore.

Society creates norms of behaviour, unwritten rules. People feel obliged to follow these rules on the whole. There will always be one or two who don't want to follow these rules but society punishes them in one form or another.

However, over the last 30 years or so the number of "rule breakers" has reached a critical mass. These people don't follow the "rules" for various reasons - the biggest (imo) being belonging to a different culture that does not share these values. Once you reach this critical mass, people who would normally respect these unwritten rules get frustrated too and may choose not to follow them any more.
Queuing for the bus is a typical example. Sure there are some stops where it's unfeasible to form an orderly queue, but there are other situations where it is feasible. At the start of the journey for example - at London Bridge Bus Station. 95% of people there do queue - but 5% just walk straight to the front of the queue and barge on when the bus turns up.
These people who choose to "push-in" or break other unwritten rules of conduct have a different set of values to the majority of people, and it is this clash of values that causes friction in society.

 

[jon0844]

Whenever I've been in America, anyone cutting in is always put in their place - and if not by those queuing, by someone in authority (whether it's staff at a counter, on a bus or indeed a taxi marshall that sat on the bonnet of any taxi that had allowed someone to queue jump).

Okay, so the fact I saw this meant people haven't all stopped queue jumping, but they were being caught and finding that they didn't 'win', so it must serve as a deterrent to the majority. Over here, it's very easy to think you might as well just join them as nobody appears to care, nobody will ever be punished and it's the only way not to become a victim.

 

[Striker]

how do you assess that, where does it start? In my young day, people were "Little Old Ladies" at 60! White hair? Muttering to oneself?

Anybody who is constantly mentioning how old they are or how things were better in their day.

 

[stut]

These people don't follow the "rules" for various reasons - the biggest (imo) being belonging to a different culture that does not share these values. Once you reach this critical mass, people who would normally respect these unwritten rules get frustrated too and may choose not to follow them any more.

Immediately after the Great Fire of London, huge gangs went around beating up and (ironcally) burning the property of foreigners. It seemed obvious to them that this event could only be foreigners' fault - after all, Britons had been living for centuries with wooden housing without a problem until their arrived. Naturally, there was no effort to make amends when they were proven wrong.

Amazing how this small-minded mentality persists. I suppose it is always easier to blame a group that you perceive as 'outsiders' than to take a decent look at yourself.

 

[WillPS]

The thing that really gets me is when I get on a train with my girlfriend and there isn't an empty pair of seats and most are taken up by lone-riders with bags. Whenever I'm on my own and I see a couple/group get on I go and find somewhere else to sit so they can sit together.

This applies mostly on trains where you can't reserve; at least then I get the chance to sort our where I'm sitting.

 

[Broken Viking]

And possibly blackspot crucial GSM-R/CSR communication to the driver. Imagine if you blocked out an 'ALL STOP' emergency message from a signalman. Not clever...

Ahh, I completely forgot that driver equipment also relies on GSM communications. As I use the Chiltern quite a bit, this is a particular consideration on services that I catch as well...

Plan aborted, and thanks for the very valuable reminder!
Although I do wish they'd equip the quiet coaches with Faraday cages to blackspot that specific section. It wouldn't affect the drivers GSM communications, but would certainly put an end to those annoying gits who insist on loudly taking part in a teleconference without having the decency to move into the vestibule beforehand...

People who pee around the toilet rather than in it (this applies not just on trains).

I have to make a confession here and admit that - On some trains (Generally those that run on older fish-plated lines and/or cross bumpy junctions at speed) - I do have some trouble "hitting the target" so to speak...

...However I try to be as considerate to my fellow passengers as possible, so if I've accidentally made a mess, I take the time to clean it up again afterwards. It's a pity that this only seems to apply to the minority of passengers, though...

"Excuse me, are you pregnant?" is going to go down a bomb on the tube...

In today's climate, is that really a wise choice of words?

You misread, or I wrote it badly.. I mean people now board through the middle doors on a normal bus, possibly because of being able to board on the bendy buses.

Ahh, I see what ye are getting at now!
When it comes to "normal" buses, I try and board at the front if at all possible - Although if the bus is already at the stop and looks about to depart, I'll still jump on at the centre door. If I'm using my Oyster, I'll try and move forward to tap on as soon as possible (Or if the bus is crowded, switch doors at the next stop) although if I've already got a valid paper ticket/Travelcard that doesn't need validation, I'll generally get my ticket to hand and take my seat regardless.

If the opportunity presents itself to show the ticket to the driver without impeding his progress then I'll do so, but if not I still have my authority to travel to hand for inspection by any RPIs that are about. (And the driver doesn't have to worry as - If I was travelling without a valid ticket - The fine and conviction would be my problem, not his. )

The thing that really gets me is when I get on a train with my girlfriend and there isn't an empty pair of seats and most are taken up by lone-riders with bags. Whenever I'm on my own and I see a couple/group get on I go and find somewhere else to sit so they can sit together.

Admittedly, I'm a serial offender when it comes to sitting down at two free seats and plonking my bag down on the second one, especially on days when I'm carrying my travelling rucksack (Which in extreme cases can weigh up to 50Kg) and it's unlikely to fit safely in the overhead racks.

Again though, this only applies if the train/bus is relatively quiet and there are plenty of vacant seats. If things look to get busy though, I'll place the bag on my lap instead (Which does mean that the space between my seat and the one in front gets crammed up with my bag and my face! ) and make my "bag seat" available for another passenger.

And aye, if I'm travelling alone and there's a couple/adult with child that look like they'll have difficulty sitting together, I'll offer up my seat so that they can use both. At any rate - Even on days when my bag's close to the 45Kg mark - I know that I'm capable of standing with that on my back for around four hours...So as a general rule, I tend to view myself as having the lowest seating "priority" of all the passengers on board the train.

 

[yorksrob]

I have to make a confession here and admit that - On some trains (Generally those that run on older fish-plated lines and/or cross bumpy junctions at speed) - I do have some trouble "hitting the target" so to speak...

...However I try to be as considerate to my fellow passengers as possible, so if I've accidentally made a mess, I take the time to clean it up again afterwards. It's a pity that this only seems to apply to the minority of passengers, though...

That's ok, instances of being caught out by dodgy track are excepted

 

[fairysdad]

Anybody who is constantly mentioning how old they are or how things were better in their day.

Hmm... I'm not quite 25 yet spent a good while yesterday talking to a friend of the same age about how things were better in our days...

Does that entitle me to a seat on a train?

 

[syorksdeano]

Another thing that really gets on my nerves is people that put their feet up on seats in front of them

 

[jon0844]

Another thing that really gets on my nerves is people that put their feet up on seats in front of them

A LOT of people do it too.

As I walk through the train at night to be first off and over the bridge to the taxi rank (or to catch the last bus), I usually glance at everyone and on some late services it's probably 20-30% of passengers who have their feet on the seats, either fully stretched out, or with the feet just on the edge. Either way, if it's wet (as it has been a lot recently) then the seats get very messy.

I have to presume the train company cleans the seats regularly or they'd be a real mess.

I'm sure more people would put their feet on the seats all day if the trains weren't busier. What annoys me is that if I want to sit down and the person takes his feet off the seat for me, I feel like grabbing him/her and forcing him to clean my seat. Just moving a dirty shoe isn't really enough.

I wish this was enforced more, but most people would argue that it's just a petty offence and bring up the 'jobsworth' argument.

 

[syorksdeano]

I wonder if train companies charged passengers full fare for either putting bags on the seat next to them so other people can't sit down or passengers that have their feet up on the opposite seat how many people would actually stop it

 

[12CSVT]

Another thing that really gets on my nerves is people that put their feet up on seats in front of them

I always thought it was against railway byelaws to put feet on seats

 

[jon0844]

I always thought it was against railway byelaws to put feet on seats

I am sure it is, but it clearly isn't enforced (bar a few high profile cases, which usually result in moans about heavy handedness). After all, anyone daring to enforce anything these days clearly has 'nothing better to do'.

I'd fine them all, but that's just me (someone who would also fine the hundreds, if not thousands, of people who chuck their cigarette butts on the floor every single day).

 

[Striker]

Putting feet on seats, dropping cigarette butts. I've seen none of this in Japan. And Japan is a nation of heavy smokers. They don't even need to tell people not to do it. It's just in their culture. What is it about British and other European nations that make them so anti-social?

 

[kbd]

Immediately after the Great Fire of London, huge gangs went around beating up and (ironcally) burning the property of foreigners. It seemed obvious to them that this event could only be foreigners' fault - after all, Britons had been living for centuries with wooden housing without a problem until their arrived. Naturally, there was no effort to make amends when they were proven wrong.

Amazing how this small-minded mentality persists. I suppose it is always easier to blame a group that you perceive as 'outsiders' than to take a decent look at yourself.

I deliberately used the word culture because it indicates a mind-set, values, and rules that do not necessarily belong to any particular race.

I expect you are unable to see this because you are so charged up with political correctness that you are unable to see the evidence in front of your very eyes.

 

[Soupdragon]

I always thought it was against railway byelaws to put feet on seats

Ive just had a leaf through my copy of the Railway Byelaws and cannot see 'feet on seats' specifically mentioned, however....... one byelaw does state "No person shall soil any part of the railway".

By interpretation would that include feet on seats?

Ive been known to tell people to remove their shoes if they want to put their feet up...

 

[Flamingo]

I wish this was enforced more, but most people would argue that it's just a petty offence and bring up the 'jobsworth' argument.

You're right, they do :roll:

 

[Striker]

Ive just had a leaf through my copy of the Railway Byelaws and cannot see 'feet on seats' specifically mentioned, however....... one byelaw does state "No person shall soil any part of the railway".

By interpretation would that include feet on seats?

Ive been known to tell people to remove their shoes if they want to put their feet up...

There shouldn't even have to be a law! It's just basic manners that sadly seem to be lacking in a large proportion of the British! :roll:

 

[the sniper]

Ive just had a leaf through my copy of the Railway Byelaws and cannot see 'feet on seats' specifically mentioned, however....... one byelaw does state "No person shall soil any part of the railway".

By interpretation would that include feet on seats?

Ive been known to tell people to remove their shoes if they want to put their feet up...

I believe Mersey Rail (who are the TOC most prolific in enforcing this byelaw) do people under the 'will not molest or wilfully interfere with the comfort or convenience of any person on the railway' byelaw. I can't recall what number it is, sorry. They probably do it under this one as they don't have to prove that the seat was 'soiled'.

Can't say that I've seen many people putting their feet up on seats, maybe 2% to 3% of people I've seen. Most seem to be young female students, in my experience.

I've got no problem with people putting their feet up, so long as the carriage isn't busy and they take off their shoes first.

 

[scotsman]

I am sure it is, but it clearly isn't enforced (bar a few high profile cases, which usually result in moans about heavy handedness). After all, anyone daring to enforce anything these days clearly has 'nothing better to do'.

You should see Black Watch: 'You always carry a piece ay paper to whip oot when challenged' 'Anyone who's got time to check bits ay paper cleary doesnae have enough to do themselves ay'

 

[chuckles1066]

There shouldn't even have to be a law! It's just basic manners that sadly seem to be lacking in a large proportion of the British! :roll:

Careful - you'll be agreeing with me about the education standards of the British next.

No manners and poorly educated - I imagine we must all be very proud of ourselves?

 

[stut]

I deliberately used the word culture because it indicates a mind-set, values, and rules that do not necessarily belong to any particular race.

So spell it out, then. What "cultures" are you talking about?

I expect you are unable to see this because you are so charged up with political correctness that you are unable to see the evidence in front of your very eyes.

Oh, please. Political correctness is a fabrication by people who can't understand why nobody laughs at racist jokes.

 

[trainophile]

I've often thought it shouldn't be beyond the wit of rolling stock designers to incorporate a foot rest in the back of seats, e.g. a small metal bar attached to the base of the seat in front, similar to those in ladies hairdressing salons. Of course there would be brats who delighted in kicking the bar or seat and annoying the occupant, but you can get that anyway. My pet hate is kids fiddling with the pull-down tray, banging it shut repeatedly against the back of my seat. But I digress...

On long journeys my feet do get tired having to be on the floor, and crossing legs is not good for circulation. I never put them up on the seats but can quite understand why it is an automatic habit for some people. Most of us if sitting at home for an evening would use a foot stool or some other means of raising the feet off floor level.

So come on train designers, show us what you can do.

 

[yorksrob]

The thing that really gets me is when I get on a train with my girlfriend and there isn't an empty pair of seats and most are taken up by lone-riders with bags. Whenever I'm on my own and I see a couple/group get on I go and find somewhere else to sit so they can sit together.

This applies mostly on trains where you can't reserve; at least then I get the chance to sort our where I'm sitting.

I see, so we embittered singletons are supposed to give up our nice plum window seats just so the lovebirds can hold hands.

Good luck with that