Train Driving

[wessex]

Really? Do you know of any conductor/guards that have panicked?

This is where you need to read a post correctly....

A tube driver will have an advantage over a guard, as they are proven at driving, a guard may or may not panic that has yet to be proven.

Dont take offence if you are a guard, as you may be fine

 

[radamfi]

Out of curiosity, approximately what proportion of guards want to be drivers? Is being a guard first the best way of becoming a driver?

 

[scotsman]

Out of curiosity, approximately what proportion of guards want to be drivers? Is being a guard first the best way of becoming a driver?

It's part of a route that I've heard a few times

Ticket Office > Onboard Catering > Train Despatch > Guard > Driver

 

[notadriver]

This is where you need to read a post correctly....

A tube driver will have an advantage over a guard, as they are proven at driving, a guard may or may not panic that has yet to be proven.

Dont take offence if you are a guard, as you may be fine

I will never become big-headed if I get a trainee drivers job.

Yes I was a Guard but i'm not any more. Aren't you a 'Boil in the bag' driver off the street? Have you any idea of what the Guards job is like? (If you do I stand corrected).

 

[wessex]

I will never become big-headed if I get a trainee drivers job.

Yes I was a Guard but i'm not any more. Aren't you a 'Boil in the bag' driver off the street? Have you any idea of what the Guards job is like? (If you do I stand corrected).

This a thread on how a tube driver would have an advantage being employed as a mainline driver, not an opportunity for everyone else to say how they would be more capable than him.

Why are you being offensive to me, is this the reason you are no longer a guard maybe?

 

[notadriver]

This a thread on how a tube driver would have an advantage being employed as a mainline driver, not an opportunity for everyone else to say how they would be more capable than him.

Why are you being offensive to me, is this the reason you are no longer a guard maybe?

I'm not being offensive to you - but the facts are (unless I am wrong in which case I stand corrected) - that you are a Trainee Driver 'off the street' and I feel you aren't really appreciating the skills and experience a railway Guard has. In fact what you have said is they are likely to panic when handling a train which I find alarming.

Is there an aspect of the job you do which I don't understand or appreciate?

 

[wessex]

You have called me big headed, boil in the bag and off the street, if that isnt offensive I dont know what is

I wont take offence though as you have obviously misread my comments, now back to the thread

 

[CarterUSM]

I think this is perhaps blowing out of proportion, i think wessex had a valid point about an ex tube driver having experience of train handling, over a guard, though i know plenty of my fellow guards who have handled a train at some point! There can be an element of “superiority complex“ within the drivers grade however, of that there is no doubt and i have experienced it myself.

 

[Bill EWS]

It took me 12 years to get my driving job, which wasn't that unusual in those times, even longer. I have been retired five years now after 42 years working on and driving trains of all types from Steam upwards. I find it amusing reading one fairly rescent driver, who would have been considered a "Boil-In-The-Bag Driver" in my time calling a yet more recent driver "Boil-In-The-Bag". I remember when the term first came about. Never used it myself as I have more respect for new entrants to the job. We all had to learn from the start.

 

[Legzr1]

Out of curiosity, approximately what proportion of guards want to be drivers?

98.75%



Roughly.

 

[CarterUSM]

It took me 12 years to get my driving job, which wasn't that unusual in those times, even longer. I have been retired five years now after 42 years working on and driving trains of all types from Steam upwards. I find it amusing reading one fairly rescent driver, who would have been considered a "Boil-In-The-Bag Driver" in my time calling a yet more recent driver "Boil-In-The-Bag". I remember when the term first came about. Never used it myself as I have more respect for new entrants to the job. We all had to learn from the start.

Well said Bill. What do you think of todays driver training?

 

[notadriver]

I was a tube driver for 10 years, does that count for anything on the mailnline?

I recently overheard a conversation with a tube driver who was very unhappy to be put on a trainee driver training course. They feel as a former tube driver they needn't do the full 225 hours of handling that is normally required. What do others think?

 

[Oracle]

I have driven everything from a moped through cars to heavy vans to light planes plus steam locos, diesel railcars, and yet I would expect to go on a course to drive a 7.5-tonner truck that my license allows me to do. Experience counts though in the training.

Years ago there was a TV programme about new entrants to become Army Air Corps pilots. The lady officer that had already got her Private Pilots License sailed through the basic tuition and assessment and came out on top in the rankings at the end of the Course. The poor Corporal who had had no experience whatever had to leave the course. The others whoa also had no experience passed in the end.

 

[notadriver]

I have driven everything from a moped through cars to heavy vans to light planes plus steam locos, diesel railcars, and yet I would expect to go on a course to drive a 7.5-tonner truck that my license allows me to do. Experience counts though in the training..

Granted it does but does it mean you can skip the tedious bits and do less than the others?

Which of those vehicles did you have a licence for? Impressive list.

 

[Oracle]

Also driven a Camel [!] in Tunisia and at 14-15 in France, mopeds

At age 16 1/2: motorcycle licence
17 3/4: car licence

I can legally drive a moped, m/c, car, van, truck up to 7 1/2 tons, minibus to 15 seats, street cleaner, plus any of the above with a trailer. Although I once part-owned a RF (RF197) I never drove it regrettably.

I have fired and driven steam locos nd also diesel shunters and railcars, after going on a Course.

As to aircraft: Cessna 150/152/172/182 and Piper PA28. Done a few cross-channels!

I have also been shown how to drive (and stop) Underground 1959 and 1973 and D78 Stock but that's decades ago! I just wish that I could have joined LT and actually driven Underground trains. It became abundently clear that possibly anyone can drive a train..it's making it stop and making it stop in the right place that is the skill. I deeply respect qualified drivers for their abilities. They deserve every penny in their salaries.

 

[notadriver]

Also driven a Camel [!] in Tunisia and at 14-15 in France, mopeds

At age 16 1/2: motorcycle licence
17 3/4: car licence

I can legally drive a moped, m/c, car, van, truck up to 7 1/2 tons, minibus to 15 seats, street cleaner, plus any of the above with a trailer. Although I once part-owned a RF (RF197) I never drove it regrettably.

I have fired and driven steam locos nd also diesel shunters and railcars, after going on a Course.

As to aircraft: Cessna 150/152/172/182 and Piper PA28. Done a few cross-channels!

I have also been shown how to drive (and stop) Underground 1959 and 1973 and D78 Stock but that's decades ago! I just wish that I could have joined LT and actually driven Underground trains. It became abundently clear that possibly anyone can drive a train..it's making it stop and making it stop in the right place that is the skill. I deeply respect qualified drivers for their abilities. They deserve every penny in their salaries.

Quite impressive list. I've had an introductory lesson in a light aircraft.

I want to buy a steam driving experience for someone but the cheapest I can find is £250. Anyone know of anything cheaper? I also personally wouldn't mind having a go at shovelling coal into a steam train but not sure about the cost.

Did you get a decent drive of the tube stocks you mentioned and at any speed?

 

[Oracle]

I learned on the North Norfolk Railway...I would have said that £250 is very reasonable. I must have paid almost that back in oh, 1979.

Regrettably I have not had the chance to drive a tube train. Just had instruction. Also regrettably one of the drivers was an instructor/operator as they now call them, but left the Underground a long time ago. He had been a guard before he became a motorman/driver, and on at least two lines.

 

[GB]

While haven driven tuube trains brings its advantages, it does not infer an automatic ability to drive mainline trains as you will still need traction knowledge, route knowledge, company instructions, rule book etc etc. Seems like the tube driver who seems to be offended at the prospect of being a trainee mainline driver needs to get over himself.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Mainline vs Tube. Different rule book, traction, electrical system, signaling, etc.

There's a lot more to train driving that just knowing how to stop and start the thing. it's about taking the correct decisions in a given situation, drawing upon your rules, traction & route knowledge. The principle is the same between the two environments, but as the specifics are very different, the tube guy needs the full training course. Of the train handling aspect of it, you need that time for route learning, as much as train handling. You're also learning how to apply the rules & traction out in the real world.

The real issue for the tube driver is the drop in money whilst he trains; that's probably what he's really moaning about!

Footplate experience - look at what's actually included, rather than just the price. But don't forget that these courses have nothing whatever to do with driving - all you're doing is pulling a lever when someone tells you to, and a monkey can do that! If you want to have a go at throwing coal at something, sign on at a worthwhile heritage outfit as a cleaner. It's cheaper, you're doing something useful, and you might just find that you enjoy it.

 

[Oracle]

sign on at a worthwhile heritage outfit as a cleaner

Have done that, and learned about the amazing polishing powers of diesel fuel on steam locos! You also get to learn how to light fires and bring steam up. Then you can go from there. Footplate rides seem to flow as a consequence.

 

[TDK]

Some of the replies here seem to be jumping the gun a bit. Employers are now frequently looking at past work experience when sifting through candidates and I'm certain that there are a number of relevant transferrable skills between tube and mainline driving.

I have recruited train drivers before and if an ex tube driver applied I would be very interested in interviewing them down to the fact that the speed and distance experience, the shifts, the being able to rollow rules and regs and also working alone element "DOES" count for something when it comes to recuitment, however it does not mean the ex tube driver will get the job over say a bus driver or an ex airline pilot, etc.It all depends on apssing the assessments, the interview and the medical and I would certainly look into the said candidates previous employment and reasons forleaving, EWSlucus is perfectly correct in some of the points, even if you are fully qualified tube driver you would enter at the bottom as a trainee driver just like anyone else.

The recruitment I use to carry out would give points from 1 to 5 regarding past experiences and the candidate with the highest points normally got a shot at the assessments,points were awarded for:

1. experience with rules and regs
2. mechanical experience
3. experience of shifts
4. distance from depot location (or able to relocate)
5. experience in an emergency situation
6. Sickenss record from past employment

There were a couple of others that I cannot remeber, now the tube driveror guard would automatically get 5 for 1, 2, 3. With the ex tube driver getting 5 for number 2.

So, yes it will of course be an advantage when applying for a mainline job,

 

[scotsman]

Have done that, and learned about the amazing polishing powers of diesel fuel on steam locos! You also get to learn how to light fires and bring steam up. Then you can go from there. Footplate rides seem to flow as a consequence.

I've had a footplate ride unofficially while on duty at a Heritage Railway! Getting involved in the first place is the important part!

 

[Legzr1]

I have recruited train drivers before and if an ex tube driver applied I would be very interested in interviewing them down to the fact that the speed and distance experience, the shifts, the being able to rollow rules and regs and also working alone element "DOES" count for something when it comes to recuitment, however it does not mean the ex tube driver will get the job over say a bus driver or an ex airline pilot, etc.It all depends on apssing the assessments, the interview and the medical and I would certainly look into the said candidates previous employment and reasons forleaving, EWSlucus is perfectly correct in some of the points, even if you are fully qualified tube driver you would enter at the bottom as a trainee driver just like anyone else.

The recruitment I use to carry out would give points from 1 to 5 regarding past experiences and the candidate with the highest points normally got a shot at the assessments,points were awarded for:

1. experience with rules and regs
2. mechanical experience
3. experience of shifts
4. distance from depot location (or able to relocate)
5. experience in an emergency situation
6. Sickenss record from past employment

There were a couple of others that I cannot remeber, now the tube driveror guard would automatically get 5 for 1, 2, 3. With the ex tube driver getting 5 for number 2.

So, yes it will of course be an advantage when applying for a mainline job,

Thankyou.


It was obvious to some of us that this experience just had to count for something

 

[E&W Lucas]

Thankyou.


It was obvious to some of us that this experience just had to count for something

But as has been explained above, no more so than that in any other shift based, responsible job, involving machinery. Plus you'll still have to spend about a year on less than £20k, whilst you train from scratch again. The actual competence doesn't transfer.

Would you expect a Snowdon Mountain Railway driver's experience to "count" significantly too?

 

[90019]

But as has been explained above, no more so than that in any other shift based, responsible job, involving machinery. Plus you'll still have to spend about a year on less than £20k, whilst you train from scratch again. The actual competence doesn't transfer.

Would you expect a Snowdon Mountain Railway driver's experience to "count" significantly too?

Why do you feel such a need to be a dick towards him about this?
Do you have some personal axe to grind or something?

We get it, it won't mean much and he'll start from the bottom.
Your posts on the subject are just getting tedious.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Why do you feel such a need to be a dick towards him about this?
Do you have some personal axe to grind or something?

We get it, it won't mean much and he'll start from the bottom.
Your posts on the subject are just getting tedious.

There's no need to get offensive. You get it, I get it, but some still seem to be trying to argue otherwise. Whatever, all the best to the gent if he does apply.

 

[90019]

There's no need to get offensive. You get it, I get it, but some still seem to be trying to argue otherwise. Whatever, all the best to the gent if he does apply.

Sorry, your posts are really starting to grate with me, because you really seem to be on the attack in most of your posts.

 

[E&W Lucas]

There's nothing wrong with a bit of challenging debate. Am I on the attack, or am I challenging some missconceptions?

And the Snowdon chap would bring a heck of a lot "to the table". However, it's the same as the tube driver; different railway environment.

 

[Legzr1]

I have recruited train drivers before and if an ex tube driver applied I would be very interested in interviewing them down to the fact that the speed and distance experience, the shifts, the being able to rollow rules and regs and also working alone element "DOES" count for something when it comes to recuitment

I've highighted the important bit for the OP.

It's up to him whether he takes notice of an experienced recruiter or an argumentative alias with nothing positive to add.

Good luck either way

 

[TDK]

I've highighted the important bit for the OP.

It's up to him whether he takes notice of an experienced recruiter or an argumentative alias with nothing positive to add.

Good luck either way

Just for your interest here is a list of professions of the drivers I recruited that I can remember!

9 ex guards
2 guys that built perkins engines
1 windscreen fitter
3 signallers
1 mortician
5 from the armed forces
1 aircraft ramp worker
1 ex BR driver (out of the loop for 10 years)
2 bus drivers
1 mechanic
1 MD of a company
1 tyre fitter
2 builders
2 trolly dollys

this is just a few and goes to prove that if you personally have what it takes you can get a job as a driver! Of course fully qualified mainline drivers always get the first shout.