Train driving... where do I start?

[Josephibbs]

Hello,

My name is Joe Hibbs and I live in the North-east of Scotland. I am currently 16, and I am in S5 at school.

I have had an interest in trains since the age of about 3, when my Dad took me to the "Bluebell Railway" mostly every weekend. I then moved up to Scotland for my Dad's work, and have lived here since the age of 5.

As I am coming to the climax of my school career, I really need to have a hard think of what my ambition is, and I always used to "toy" with the idea of being a train driver. Now that I am in my second last year of school, I feel I should persue the idea of being a train driver.

Here is what I got for my Standard Grades, and this is what I am hoping for in my Highers/Intermediate 2's.

Standard Grade Results:

Maths - 1
English - 2
Craft and Design - 1
Music - 1
Geography - 2
Chemistry - 2
French - 2
German - 2

Higher/Intermediate 2 predicted grades:

Higher Maths - C
Higher Music - B
Int2 English - C
Int2 Physics - A/B
Int2 Graphic Communication - B/C

I am very confused as to what to do when I leave school in summer 2011, and I have heard that you need to be 21 to become a full time Train Driver.

Is there anything that you would recomend me doing between the ages of 17 (I will be 18 the following December) and 21? Perhaps something to do with engineering would be good to have as "background knowledge"?

I'd also like to know if there are any minimum grades / qualifications that I need to have?

Any advice and help will be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe Hibbs

 

[Metroland]

5 GCSEs A-C (or equivalent) is the norm, but more can help. It's passing the initial tests that's the most important thing. Very hard to get in from 'the street' as a driver, with 300-400 people going for each job. Many people start as station staff/guards/trainmen. This situation is harder in Scotland and the North of England, easier in London and the SE.

TBH I'd get as many qualifications as possible and do some work on a preserved line, don't rely on getting this job, have plenty of plan Bs.

 

[yorkie]

Welcome to the forums

Well, a member of this forum is driving what I consider to be proper trains[1] at 19 (passed at 18 ), but yes to drive on National Rail you need to be 21.

A lot of drivers get in by starting out as another position e.g. a guard (or a despatcher first, then a guard) and some TOCs only recruit internally I believe.

You could try getting some experience by volunteering at a preserved line.

Sounds like you are in the equivalent of Year 12, I don't understand the grades but they sound good.

You need to have good awareness, quick reactions, good eyesight, etc...

You may find reading the entries from this blog useful, this was updated when another member of this forum was training to be a driver.

I'm sure some drivers will be along shortly to give you advice

[1] Widest stock in the UK, sound like proper trains, not made of plastic, deep sprung seats and with 4 track sections and fast services. That's proper in my book

 

[Josephibbs]

Thanks for the advise guys

I was considering volunteering at the "Caledonian Railway" in Brechin, about 15 miles away from me, but transport there was an issue.

The Standard Grade results are similar to GCSE's, but are taken a year earlier and are respectively less difficult (there's one year less of knowledge in them.)

I should have added, I wear glasses for long-distance sight, will I be okay?

Thanks, keep the advise coming!

Joe

 

[yorkie]

Have you tried contacting them? There may be some volunteers there who live near you who can give you a lift, it's worth a try. Arbroath is 15 miles from Brechin, are you based there? if so there may be someone from there who volunteers there. I know there are enthusiasts based in Arbroath as I've seen videos on Youtube from them, and they filmed a Valenta I was on in 2008.

 

[royaloak]

Glasses wont be an issue, just carry a spare pair with you.

As has been said try and get ANY other job to prove yourself as a reliable and good worker first, it all helps.

 

[GB]

While attaining good grades at school is always a good idea, they are not really a prerequisite for getting a job on the railway. Providing you have good communication skills, I would personly say that attitude, personality and work experience will be of more value.

If your set on being a driver then I would seriously suggest (after your education) getting any railway releated job...beit station staff, cleaner, ticket office staff etc etc That way you will get your foot in the door, gain experience and hopefully put you in a better position with the internal vaccany lists.

 

[Josephibbs]

Thanks for all of this great advise guys!

Yorkie, I am situated north of Montrose, in the country near to the fishing village, Johnshaven. I haven't tried contacting the company yet, but I may do in the near future, after my school exams which are in May.

I was told by my Auntie's husband (who works for London Underground) that "working up the ranks" is probably advised. He started by working on the permenant way, and he got the opportunity for train driving, and finally the chance of being a train driving instructor. Perhaps I should look into starting at the bottom and working up.

I have now realised that the minimum grades are necessary, but being commited, loyal and friendly is ALOT to do with the job.

I would like to know, is there alot of competition for the "lower ranked" jobs such as a train guard or ticket collector?

Thanks for being such friendly and informative guys!

Joe

 

[GB]

I would like to know, is there alot of competition for the "lower ranked" jobs such as a train guard or ticket collector?

I would say almost certainly yes, given the amount of unemployment/redundancies there have been over the last 12-14 months.

 

[Josephibbs]

Okay, so getting good grades AND having commitment to the job is probably going to give you a better chance of succession?

 

[driver9000]

Have a read of this website:

http://www.railwayregister.care4free.net/becoming_a_train_driver.htm

 

[yorkie]

A basic RPI fares collector may be considered a "lower ranked" job by some but a 'proper' guard isn't, and is certainly on the way to becoming a driver. A Train Manager/Senior Conductor for the likes of East Coast (which you could join at Aberdeen), Cross Country, Virgin, FGW and the like would pay a very reasonable salary indeed, plus commission.

You can do platform work or ticket office work at 18 (and you may be able to do that part time), and then become a guard, and eventually go on to be a driver.

There are some, but not a lot, of on board staff based at Aberdeen for EC, we kept recognising the same guards (and they recognised us) on our Freedom of Scotland rover in '08!

 

[Josephibbs]

I shall perhaps look into jobs at Aberdeen, as commuting there everyday is very easy.

Thanks for all of this help guys, much appreciated

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I think all I could advise is to talk to O L Leigh off of this site he is a driver and may how be to advise you on things and give you some tips

 

[RPM]

Welcome to the forums

[1] Widest stock in the UK, sound like proper trains, not made of plastic, deep sprung seats and with 4 track sections and fast services. That's proper in my book

Metropolitan Line A60s?

You wouldn't call them fast if you'd spent as much time as I have being stuck behind them!

 

[ungreat]

I think all I could advise is to talk to O L Leigh off of this site he is a driver and may how be to advise you on things and give you some tips

Or me

23 years now driving...well,in November!

 

[RPM]

Hello,

I'd also like to know if there are any minimum grades / qualifications that I need to have?

I'm not sure grades and qualifications are all that important for train driving. My brother-in-law left school with 2 GSCEs. I did "O levels", "A levels" and got a science degree but we've both ended up doing the same job and earning the same wage!

It is more to do with your temperament and ability to concentrate. Bear in mind that although it is a great job in so many ways it can also be very tedious and repetetive sometimes. You need to be able to stay both alert and motivated through these times.

There is also a large degree of luck when it comes to landing a driver's job. Although it is a good thing to aim for, you really do need to consider alternative careers too because the chances of getting in are quite slim.

Good luck with it Joe!

 

[Josephibbs]

Thanks for all of your help and guidance guys, really much appreciated! You've given me a great deal of help, which has given me a MUCH bigger understanding of how to get into this job!

Thanks for being such great people,

All the best,

Joe

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for all of your help and guidance guys, really much appreciated! You've given me a great deal of help, which has given me a MUCH bigger understanding of how to get into this job!

Thanks for being such great people,

All the best,

Joe

You're welcome

 

[E&W Lucas]

You can do platform work or ticket office work at 18 (and you may be able to do that part time), and then become a guard, and eventually go on to be a driver.

Can I just make an observation on this mantra.

If we're advising someone on the Eastcoast route, then bear in mind that the company employs about 3000 staff, yet driver trainees number in single figures a year. How many of those 3000 staff want to "work their way up to driver"? How many ever will? Of those trainee posts, how many will be on the northern half of the route? I wouldn't make that my "Plan A" career path. The odds are against you.

I know one person that has joined as an 18 yr old guard, and gone onto driving at 20 (for qualification at 21). He works for Northern, who do seem to progress plenty internally.

Most driver training is done by the commuter operators. Down South most of these are Driver Only Operation, so there's not that many jobs within them that will give you train operating experience. In my experience, a high proportion of their trainee drivers are external applicants.

If I were a 16 year old wannabe driver, I'd get the best qualifications I could, including University if you want to. Then get the best job that you can, giving you as much responsibility as possible. When you come to apply for driving, it demonstrates that you are someone who can be trusted to take charge of a multi million pound asset, with several hundred people on it. Expect to relocate too. Your best chance of a job will be with FCC / Southern/ SWT/ Southeastern, maybe Northern.

Preservation - enjoy it as a hobby for its own sake. I've been involved since I was a teenager too. I wouldn't say it gave me "experience", more a "common sense" for my second career as a train driver. If you fancy a few holidays, you could try working your way onto the footplate at the NYMR, as their Whitby operation offers a very limited form of NR experience. Will take a few years to get to fireman though, and further experience in grade is required for Whitby running.

 

[Fig]

Allow me to make an observation on 'The Mantra'.

Last year, I attended an assessment day with one of those commuter TOCs down South. I was one of about 10 or 12, invited from what I can only imagine must have been thousands of applicants, to attend the assessment on that day. Of those 10 or 12, I only remember one who had come from outside the transport sector. The rest of us were a mix of bus drivers, CSA's, gate-line staff, guards, etc. Some candidates were internal, some were not. I don't remember there being any post-graduates with a portfolio of academic qualifications being invited to sit those tests.

That's all, just saying.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Allow me to make an observation on 'The Mantra'.

Last year, I attended an assessment day with one of those commuter TOCs down South. I was one of about 10 or 12, invited from what I can only imagine must have been thousands of applicants, to attend the assessment on that day. Of those 10 or 12, I only remember one who had come from outside the transport sector. The rest of us were a mix of bus drivers, CSA's, gate-line staff, guards, etc. Some candidates were internal, some were not. I don't remember there being any post-graduates with a portfolio of academic qualifications being invited to sit those tests.

That's all, just saying.

I'm not saying that every driver is a graduate, but the number is increasing. What I put was in answer to the question from a 16 year old about what to do until he can apply to be a driver. I don't think "make the best of yourself" is bad advice.

Of the group you were in, how many passed? On my driver training course, only one of the 9 was internal. One had been a guard elsewhere. The rest were from outside the industry. All had held skilled/ supervisory/ managerial roles.

 

[Fig]

I would say about half of us passed. The structured interviews were held at a later date. But my point was not about how many passed but about what type of person had survived the initial sift to actually get a chance to pass.

I accept that "make the best of yourself" is not bad advice for a 16 yr old. But similarly, "get a couple of years on the platform under your belt" is not bad advice either. I would say that a bit of the former followed by a bit of the later is even better advice.

It could be, of course, that all the graduates were invited to attend testing on a separate date and they all passed. Who knows? I won't know for sure till I meet them all on day 1 at the training depot.

 

[E&W Lucas]

I accept that "make the best of yourself" is not bad advice for a 16 yr old. But similarly, "get a couple of years on the platform under your belt" is not bad advice either. I would say that a bit of the former followed by a bit of the later is even better advice.

The training programmes are structured for people with zero prior knowledge. There is absolutely no advantage to be gained from working on the platform, as the knowledge overlap is minimal. Experience in a role with considerably more responsibility would be a lot more use. Either within the railway industry or outside.

Anyway, best of luck to you.

 

[TDK]

Hello,

My name is Joe Hibbs and I live in the North-east of Scotland. I am currently 16, and I am in S5 at school.

I have had an interest in trains since the age of about 3, when my Dad took me to the "Bluebell Railway" mostly every weekend. I then moved up to Scotland for my Dad's work, and have lived here since the age of 5.

As I am coming to the climax of my school career, I really need to have a hard think of what my ambition is, and I always used to "toy" with the idea of being a train driver. Now that I am in my second last year of school, I feel I should persue the idea of being a train driver.

Here is what I got for my Standard Grades, and this is what I am hoping for in my Highers/Intermediate 2's.

Standard Grade Results:

Maths - 1
English - 2
Craft and Design - 1
Music - 1
Geography - 2
Chemistry - 2
French - 2
German - 2

Higher/Intermediate 2 predicted grades:

Higher Maths - C
Higher Music - B
Int2 English - C
Int2 Physics - A/B
Int2 Graphic Communication - B/C

I am very confused as to what to do when I leave school in summer 2011, and I have heard that you need to be 21 to become a full time Train Driver.

Is there anything that you would recomend me doing between the ages of 17 (I will be 18 the following December) and 21? Perhaps something to do with engineering would be good to have as "background knowledge"?

I'd also like to know if there are any minimum grades / qualifications that I need to have?

Any advice and help will be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe Hibbs

I have carried out many interviews with prospective train drivers and below are the ctiteria that the company I worked for were and were not looking for.

1. Living within 1 hour of the depot recruiting
2. Own transport or a reliable way to get to work
3. Experience in shift work
4. Good communication skills
5. Basic education, must be numerate anf literate.
6. Past experience in engineering or at least some experience.
7. Not had lazer eye sugery
8. A good valid reason for wanting to be a driver
9. Presentable, I always favoured a person who wore a shirt and tie other than a hoody

Points that were a no no!

1.Wanting the job just for the money
2.Having your main hobby or being wrapped up in train spotting
3.Poor communication skills
4.Poorly dressed.
5.Cockey, for instance thinking you are better than the rest of the entrants because you know what a sulzer is
6.No past work experience
7.Not good at team work

These lists are just some of the observations I encountered as a qualified interviiewer & assessor, as a rule of thumb out of every 500 applicants depending on the amount of positions 500 would apply, 30 would get to the final tests interviews and 2 or 3 would become trainee drivers.

Hope this helps

 

[robby p]

While being signed of as a driver after my final tests I asked the manager signing me off why the company employed people 'off the street' and not from station gades/conductors ect. His reply was that most people they employ for station grades/conductors (customer service roles) meet the 'requirements' for those jobs but they ususaly don't fit the 'requirements' of a train driver. He explained that his view was that the skills from customer service roles didn't transfer to drivers so internal staff applying for positions had no advantage to those externaly applying. I've also heard from people that usualy some internal trainees tended to be a bit cocky during driver training because they already had a basic knowlege and believed they knew more than they actualy did!
Having said that before I became I driver I worked as a station assistant for London Underground at age 19, and I feel this definatly gave me the maturaty to apply for a driving positon as soon as I turned 21. It also gave me shift work experiance and teamwork but one thing that went against me was I had no mechanical background and no experiance of working alone! But hey I got the job anyways
I'm sorry I have probely confused everyone with the mixed views but I thought i'd share my experiance with it.

 

[The 158 Man]

No confusion there matey, just some good all 'round points and opinions.

I can imagine that some internal staff could be a bit cocky. People like that irritate me, because usually they only want the job because it's good money and yet there's people like us (who really want to make a career out of working on the railway, and who'd do the job properly and not just "t*ss it off") that can't get a look-in! :-x

 

[robby p]

Yeah it's annoying because they're usualy the ones who can blag their way through the interview! He also mentioned statisticaly the higher you score in the first assesesments the less less likely you are to make a mistake whilst driving! I can't see it myself, recently becoming a driver i've found anyone can make a mistake at anytime. It just shows though, I think the recruitment process is getting harder then ever!

 

[The 158 Man]

It certainly seems to be one of the hardest professions to get into, at any level!

Think I'm gonna give up trying before long!

 

[Flyboy]

While being signed of as a driver after my final tests I asked the manager signing me off why the company employed people 'off the street' and not from station gades/conductors ect. His reply was that most people they employ for station grades/conductors (customer service roles) meet the 'requirements' for those jobs but they ususaly don't fit the 'requirements' of a train driver. He explained that his view was that the skills from customer service roles didn't transfer to drivers so internal staff applying for positions had no advantage to those externaly applying.

Wise words from the Manager who signed you off. It's a no-brainer and something I've said many times before, the two roles are as different as chalk and cheese. As an 'outsider' it's good to know that there are those within the industry that realise this.

As I said on the "Trainee Drivers (First Capital Connect)" topic :

The most frustrating response is from HR departments that recommend joining in other roles such as on-board CSAs or Conductors. Now whilst I accept that that may have been the norm in the distant past, I wish they'd realise that there's virtually no technical or personality skills crossover whatsoever between those roles and a driver's position. A customer-facing role requires a completely different type of personality, for example there's no way I could do a cabin attendant's job, so I didn't join as one!

It would appear that some HR departments have very different views to Driver Managers.